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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:02 PM
Original message
An article on "Bill Clinton's Madness."
Bill Clinton’s Madness: A Consequence of Heart-Bypass
Surgery Brain Damage


We Need to Understand and Show Some Compassion

One of the savviest politicians of our generation, known for his wit, charm, and calm under extreme pressure, Bill Clinton appears out of character in the speeches and interviews televised since his bypass surgery September 6, 2004—and his mental deterioration may be accelerating. Remember, this is the president who withstood public impeachment before the entire world for his relationship with Monica Lewinski without once losing control. Now, he is easily angered by hecklers, and makes factual mistakes and racial slurs while aggressively defending his wife’s campaign for presidency. Everyone sees his mental and emotional decline, yet to date, no medical professionals have spoken out about the cause or offered help.

Not a single one—not one bypass surgeon, cardiologist or psychiatrist—has stepped forward in his defense; even though all of them are trained to recognize “post bypass surgery cognitive dysfunction.” One of the best-kept secrets in medicine is the brain damage caused during bypass surgery. During my 40 years of medical practice I have never heard a doctor warn a patient before bypass surgery that an expected complication is memory loss. After surgery when the family complains of dad’s fits of anger, I have never heard a doctor admit that personality change is a common consequence of surgery. Yet these well-recognized side effects have been reported in medical journals since 1969.1

Brain damage during bypass surgery is so common that hospital personnel refer to it as “pump head.” The primary cause is emboli produced during surgery from clamping the aorta and from the “heart-lung machine.” This machine pumps blood to keep the patient alive while the heart is stopped during the operation. Unfortunately, this pump also introduces toxic gases, fat globules, and bits of plastic debris into the bloodstream of the patient under anesthesia. Once they are in the bloodstream, these particles migrate to the brain where they can clog capillaries and prevent adequate amounts of blood and oxygen from flowing to the brain. Essentially, all patients experience brain emboli during surgery and for many the damage is permanent.

In 2001, an article in the New England Journal of Medicine reported that 5-years after bypass surgery 42% of patients showed decline in mental function of approximately 20 percent or more.2 A study published this year (2008) in the Annals of Thoracic Surgery using MRI testing just after bypass surgery found brain damage in 51% of patients.3 Three years after their time on the bypass pump, significant permanent reduction in mental capacity was identified in 31% of patients. I am not talking major stroke here; but these patients can't remember names or numbers as they once did, experience sleep disturbances (including nightmares), suffer mood swings, and lose intellectual acuity. Approximately 30 percent of people suffer persistent depression and some even contemplate suicide.

More, much more, at link:

http://www.drmcdougall.com:80/misc/2008other/080412clinton.htm
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Doesn't explain Hillary's madness though.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You're right!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Her's is presurgery.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. she has pumphead by proxy
like munchhausen
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. This belongs in GD:P and I don't think he has any cognitive disfunction
He's just being smeared yet again, except this time it's the Obama "supporters" instead of the RW smear machine.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well, if it gets locked, I'll move it over...
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yep
just another smear. They come from all quarters these days.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yep
And I know several people who have had bypass surgeries that would be very insulted by this article, and not because they like Clinton.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. So a medical doctor writes an article which details the dangers
and symptoms, then links them with noted anomolous behaviors of the former president, and in your opinion it's just a smear by Obama supporters.

Can't you take anything, including concern for President Clinton's health, at face value?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. a doctor
who has no basis on which to diagnose Clinton.

Did you approve of Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo from a videotape?
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. ...
:applause: The depths some will go to find
a way to smear a Clinton is beyond me.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. If more of us will hit the alert button (nt)
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
45. This happened to my husbands dad
after his bypass. He was never the same mentally.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
48. I agree--he's as sane as he's always been
He's just under a bigger microscope now.
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Haole Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. ".. plastic debris into the bloodstream of the patient" ???
:scared:

This was very enlightening. Very scary... but info that patients and their loved ones should definitely be warned about before bypass surgery!

Thank you for the post.
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Contrary to a few other posters, I appreciate your post. I'd never heard of this and, apart from
Clinton, this is information that should be shared with the general public. How do they get away with hiding this from patients before surgery? Shouldn't these side effects be shown on the paper you sign indicating you're aware of risks? rec'd
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. I DID read about this years ago and had forgotten it. Very possible explanation
Link on to the cite and look at the picture of Bill - never saw him look like that before the surgery.

Here's more from the link.
"Our former president needs our understanding and support. A simple explanation by his doctors of the cause of his recent aberrant behaviors should bring peace of mind to Hillary and her campaign staff. If Mr. Clinton better understood his current limitations, he and his staff could take precautionary steps to avoid embarrassments. A long-overdue explanation would help his adoring public more easily accept his mistakes and readily forgive him. It is not your fault, Mr. Clinton.

As importantly, public recognition of the harm done to Bill Clinton by the heart surgery business would help the patients who undergo bypass surgery, and their families, to better understand similar changes they have experienced. A little attention from the media could also shine some light on the lack of survival benefits from this $90,000 procedure performed nearly half-a-million times annually in the US, and the superior benefits coming from diet and lifestyle changes.

I am saddened to see our former president suffer from public humiliation, but I am disgraced that my profession has thus far failed to come forward with a long over-due explanation and an apology to the Clintons and our nation for the harm they have done and the secrets they have kept.

John McDougall, MD"
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. He's a diet doctor
who has no business diagnosing anybody on issues like this.

What if some neurologist who'd never met Obama wrote an article hypothesizing that Obama has suffered permanent brain damage from cocaine abuse? Would people here be saying "ah, interesting article. Thanks!"?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Exactly -- he wrote some very boring vegetarian diets up and now is palying Dr. Frist on Bill
There's some good vegetarian stuff out there, but it's not McDougall.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. But it's not just this one doctor who says stuff like this happens.
Use the Google. You'll find a list of many articles indicating a link between bypass surgery and brain damage, including ones with references to respected peer-reviewed medical journals.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. So what?
this doctor is unqualified to diagnose ANYBODY he's not treating.

There's evidence that cocaine abuse can cause brain damage - would it be responsible for a doctor who's never met Obama to speculate that he's suffering from that?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. It's still irresponsible for him to give Fristian diagnoses
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. He's an M.D.
He went to medical school. He's perfectly capable of understanding the medical literature on this subject.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. He's neither a neurologist nor a pyschiatrist
and his diagnosis of Clinton from afar is baseless and stupid.
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dr. McDougall wrote Clinton a letter
explaining the negative effects of open heart surgery and providing the sound medical research for life style change instead.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. The New England Journal of Medicine report cannot be denied - Makes one wonder........
Listed in references:

The New England Journal of Medicine

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/344/6/395.pdf

ABSTRACT
Background
Cognitive decline complicates early recovery after coronary-artery bypass grafting (CABG)
and may be evident in as many as three quarters of patients at the time of discharge from the hospital
and a third of patients after six months. We sought to determine the course of cognitive change during
the five years after CABG and the effect of perioperative decline on long-term cognitive function.
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. I've been saying this for years and no one's listened to me
I'm glad that someone's finally found the time to track down an article about it.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. It doesn't matter that the phenomenon exists
This doctor is unqualified to diagnose anybody he's not treating. Furthermore, he's not a neurologist and would be unqualified to diagnose brain damage in anyone for any reason.

He sells diet books and week-long stays at his fat camp. He's promoting himself, and disparaging heart surgery. He's found a sensational article like this gets him more attention, and thus, more money.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Of course it matters that the phenomenon exists...
No matter who is talking about it.

People need to be informed before they have surgery.

Remember, the data show that 60% of those undergoing bypass surgery have no difficulties.

They still need to know; it is their right.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. How can you NOT think it'[s the epitome
of irresponsible for a diet doctor to diagnose brain injury in a person he's never met?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. You realize, don't you, that every time you respond here...
My thread gets kicked, and more people get to read it...

So you're helping more than you're hurting...

Keep it up!

The info will just be seen by more, thanks to your efforts...
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I have no interest in trying to hide this thread
what a silly thought.

I'm the type of guy who likes to face bullshit like this with an argument, not by hoping it goes ignored.

Why don't you explain why it's not a gross violation of medical ethics for this doctor to make such a diagnosis?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. So, it's a silly thought. Fancy that.
It's not a gross violation of medical ethics, because he's not making a diagnosis.

It's more theory than anything, IMHO anyway.

I think people have a right to such information. Wouldn't you want to know all the risks, even if they were miniscule?

I'm a nurse, and I can tell you that people have the right to know what "might" happen...even if it doesn't.

That's why I posted this.

So people can read, and decide for themselves.

Period.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Then he should write an article
about the generic risks of heart surgery. Tying this to Bill Clinton is just absurd.

He's a diet quack trying to drum up business.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You are entitiled to your opinion, of course...
As I am to mine.



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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Of course
but a diet doctor is NOT entitled to diagnose people he's never met in order to drum up business.

I've asked you a few times, and you haven't responded: How did you feel about Senator Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo from a videotape? Was that appropriate for an MD?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. What Frist did was wrong.
Completely and totally wrong.

It was a very political move in a time of considerable turmoil.

He wasn't trying to save people's lives, however.

He was trying to affect public policy and garner votes, IIRC...

There are similarities between that case and this article, but I honestly believe that this doctor's motives are more honest than Frist's were.

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. It's the same thing
The only difference is you agree with this doctor and not Frist.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. My dear CaliforniaPeggy
Edited on Tue Apr-15-08 04:33 PM by LostinVA
This passive aggressive side of you is very surprising.
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
47. So have I
I worried about it at first, but now that his behavior has become increasingly odd I'm suspecting it may actually have happened.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. thank you for this, I didn't know anything about it either.


explains alot.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. What exactly does it explain?
Cocaine can cause brain damage.

Barack Obama stammers a lot.

Have I just explained something?
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. explains why he has 'not been himself' for sometime now

nt
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. Dr. Frist, Dr. Frist, paging Dr. Frist n/t
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. The Bill Clinton angle aside...
I think the information is very interseting -- my Mom was looking at a bypass, but was able to get away with just a whole lot of stents. Makes me glad we didn't go for the bypass. :scared:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It has nothing to do with hating Hillary.
It's simply trying to explain all the seemingly inexplicable mistakes that Bill's been making. I've been watching news commentators puzzling over how Bill could fall from being such a brilliant politician to a man who keeps putting his foot in his mouth. I've heard everything from "he doesn't really want his wife to win" to "he misses the limelight so he says outrageous things." Their speculations are voodoo psychology, based on nothing but the fact Bill keeps messing up.

But "bypass brain" is not voodoo. It's common and well-described, and you don't have to be a cardiologist or neurologist to read the literature. Just because the guy who wrote this is a diet doctor doesn't change the fact he IS an M.D. and he knows what the literature shows. Just as I knew what the literature said when I first started saying the very same thing about Clinton some time ago. (And I have medical training.)

This isn't a reflection on Hillary at all. It just helps explain why Bill isn't up to his old self.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. No, it doesn't help to explain anything
because this quack is entirely unqualified to diagnose Clinton from afar.

He can write a generic article about the issue with no objection - but when he tries to diagnose somebody he's never met, he's crossed a line.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
46. The author should worry more about Bush's madness n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
49. How about a rumor Obama's cocaine snorting & pot smoking damaged his brain!
The OP's content is the lowest of the low.
Please stop posting this shit here.
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