My son received a letter from West Point.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

We are "cordilly" invited to attend an admissions information meeting. I have a letter on file with his high school not to release his info to any military recruiter. How did they get his name and address?

Any ideas out there?

[Squatch]

1. GO!!!

USMA is one of the top 10 engineering schools in the country. My 30-year-old brother is an alumnus who is now a mechanical engineer making well into the upper $100K.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

8. Good to know.

He wants to be an engineer! I guess I'll show him the letter and let him make up his own mind.

[sergeiAK]

12. Engineering is a great field to be in

I was also recruited for the USMA, and the Naval Academy, but in the end I went to a state school. Your son could not have picked a better time to decide to get an engineering degree, it's one of the few fields that will never really leave the US.

I have a few friends who went to the various service academies, and they all agree that the academy was an excellent school, though the commitment is something to be mindful of. OTOH, if he was considering joining the service, the Academy is the way to do it.

Good luck to him.

[bean fidhleir]

19. "engineering is one of the few fields that will never really leave the US"

I don't think you can support that with statistics. If anything, engineering has been among the FIRST fields to be wrecked by imports, right behind manufacturing.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

23. Engineering is a good education

But I would not call it a good field to be in.

Sure some do well (I do OK) and it seems your family does well but the unemployment rate for Engineers is about the highest in the nation. Add that to the cries of 'more h1-b' and it can make it very hard in the future..

I think the education is nice because it makes one rather flexible in what they can do for a living (remember engineering is a process of approaching a problem, *not* a particular set of tools to solve the problem). As an EE I can step into other roles as needed and as fields open up..

[sergeiAK]

30. Engineering unemployment is historically under the general rate

As shown here: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf97336/chp2.htm> Granted, that's for doctorates in Science and Engineering.
IEEE shows the unemployment rate for EEs at around 2.1% as of 2005. I'd like 0%, but then again, 2.1 ain't bad, compared to any industrialized nation. Even at the burst of the tech bubble, unemployment for EEs never got above 6.5%. For what was effectively an industry-wide depression, that isn't bad.

If we can avoid increasing the H1-B quota (good luck, I know) we will continue to do well enough. Add to that the number of engineering jobs that cannot be done by H1-Bs (ie defense, power plants, anything relating to national security, etc), and there will be plenty of jobs for (especially) EEs in the US. At the last university engineering career fair, there were a number of companies with "we don't sponsor H1-Bs" signs up. The US government is also hiring lots of EEs now, as the patent office is direly short of engineers to review patents.

You're 100% right on why an engineering degree is so good though. One of my classmates just got a sales job for RedHat, after he got his EE degree. Another works for the local utility co-op, working on renewable energy programs (they're required by law to get ~10% of their energy from renewable sources by 2018).

I'm not so glum on the future of engineering as a career, as one of the first things I learned in school was "Engineering is the profession of the creation of new industries". I believe that is fundamentally true, and that there will always be jobs for (or businesses to be started by) talented engineers.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

35. I would not call myself glum

I just dont see engineering itself as the 'good filed' to get into. That goes to medicine as we age..

RedHat... Nice... I applied for a job teaching there but would have had to move to NYC and the pay they offered was not enough for that move.. They are a solid company, when he is there tell him to start support the Z and/or sparc architecture ok ;)

[rox63]

2. Probably because it is also a college

So the high school may not look at them as a military recruiter.

[SteppingRazor]

3. I believe they draw a distinction between academies and recruiters.

On edit: Squatch makes a good point, depending on your and your child's view of military service. The academies are some of the best universities in the world.

[endarkenment]

4. This is not actually 'military recruitment' in the sense you mean.

West Point considers itself a college and considers its recruitment as in the same category as any other college recrutiment activity. They all use the same mailing lists. If your son starts getting visits, email or letters from the regular armed forces recruiting, you would have a valid complaint.

[eyesroll]

5. Is West Point considered a military organization or a college?

It may be lumped in with the college recruiters.

If your son doesn't want to go to the meeting, I'd ignore the invitation or RSVP no and just move on.

[Aristus]

13. Tough call. When you graduate, you have a commission and a college degree.

What you don't have is full field qualification to lead troops. It requires another few months or so of training before a newly commissioned 2nd Looey is qualified to lead a platoon of soldiers.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

25. So, if he goes to West Point he has to go into the military?

He can't just use it as a college then return to the private sector? And if he goes to WP, is WP affiliated with a certain branch of the military?

Edit: Oops! just noticed it says Department of the Army on the letterhead. So, he'd have to join the Army? Don't like that one.

[LibertyLover]

33. You're correct - West Point is the service academy associated with

the Army. On graduation there is a 5 year active service obligation followed by a 3 year inactive reserve service period. On graduation cadets have a Bachelors of Science degree and are commissioned 2nd lieutenants in the Army. It used to be that provided that a cadet met the requirements of other military services, he or she could request a cross-commission, in the Navy for example, exchanging with a cadet of that branch's service academy who wanted to go into the Army. I think that currently cross-commissioning is suspended. The USMA (United States Military Academy, the official name for the school) was established in 1802 and is the oldest of the US service academies. The post (and it is a military post) is the oldest continuously occupied military post in the US. The specialty area of the Army, i.e. artillery, infantry, etc, that a cadet goes into after graduation is determined by academic performance and personal preference. There is also a somewhat arcane admissions process too. I used to live about an hour away from West Point and went there occasionally for the museum. I also got to shoot some very interesting guns on its range one time. I had my two 14 year old godsons with me and boy did we have a good time. The fun thing about the range is that a civilian road winds down through it, so if you are shooting on the range, there is a spotter at either end of the road. If they see a car coming in either direction, they call a hold to the shooting and let the car proceed. Shooting isn't resumed until the spotter gives the all-clear.

[enlightenment]

6. I suspect that's not considered "recruiting" since it is an

accredited higher education institution (I know, I know. . .)

I'd write them back and enclose the invitation spell and grammar checked with a red pen. Suggest that if the invitation is an example of the sort of scholars they produce, you are less than impressed.

That's pathetic.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

7. Thanks.

I wasn't quite sure how much West Point fell into the college category. He's my oldest and all of this stuff is very new to me.

[endarkenment]

9. I have three sons and this shit scares the crap out of me.

I understand your concern. Our sons are at risk from the military industrial complex. The draft system is still operational and your son will have to register. The state can decide to start taking them any time it wants. The best thing we can do is work our asses off to make sure that McCain is defeated. We are one serious mistake away from the neocon idiocy escalating to global conflict.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

10. Yep, it's scary alright!

I dread the day he has to register.

Edit: The other thing I'm worried about is, if West Point has his info will they share that with other real military recruiters?

[Turbineguy]

11. Also, an important point

the military needs sane people with courage in the officer corps.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

I don't want him to go into the military.

I want him to be safe and happy, like every other parent wants for the children. This may be an excellent opportunity for him, but it scares they crap out of me.

I think I/we need more info on West Point before I can make a rational decision.

[slackmaster]

16. The military is actually safer than a lot of civilian careers

Mining, fishing, agriculture, law enforcement, driving a cab, and being President have much higher risks.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

21. He probably won't go into any of those fields.

He's really good at science and I think he would be great doing some type of scientific research. Maybe he can find a cure for some horrible illness, not create a new weapon that can kill a lot of people. That's my concern and it would break my heart.

[slackmaster]

15. Brains, too.

My brother is a Navy ship commander, and I'm glad it's him rather than some dumbass.

[slackmaster]

14. Has your son registered with the Selective Service Administration?

If he's over 18, he is required to. That may be how WP got his information.

ETA I wanted to go to the US Naval Academy but was disqualified from service due to vision problems.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

17. No, he's still in high school.

He'll turn 16 in May.

I called his school to find out if they released his info and they told me they do not release any info to military recruiters. That's good to know. The counselor told me they may have gotten it from SATs records. Also, he participated in Duke University's talent search. (He is a smart boy!) WP probably buys those names and addresses.

[slackmaster]

20. He must be getting good grades and test scores for WP to contact him at 16

:toast:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

28. Yep! He could do a little better in the grade department

though. He's smart just a little lazy when it comes to homework.

:-)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

18. SAT?

Its possible that the school did not release the info but I think colleges can look at SAT/ACT as they see fit..

[yankeeinlouisiana]

22. That's what I'm think too.

n/t

[Ishoutandscream2]

36. Yes they can, they start writing you after PSAT's

If you really kick it, universities start contacting you. We give the PSAT free to our Sophomores and Juniors, and I have several students receiving info from very elite schools.

The OP's child must really be a whiz. You have to do really well to get that kind of attention.

[orangerevolution]

39. All the Military Acadamies.

Admission to the academy is based on recommendations from a student's congressman. And I rather doubt that West Point would spell "cordially" as "cordilly".

[bdamomma]

24. the bush plan in action do not give HS students the chance

to go to college instead just give your life to the endless meat grinder.

sickening.

[zbdent]

26. one sure way to get them off his back ... so to speak ...

have him kiss the CO on the lips ... (unless the CO is a female, then grab the nearest male officer ...)

[Ganja Ninja]

27. Things may be bad right now but keep in mind he's not going to

graduate for 4 years. Bush's war will be long over by then. It might not be a bad move if you can't afford to send him yourself.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

29. True, but I'm not sure if he has

the right personality for the military. I don't know. This is his first letter from a college and it has to be from the military!

:banghead:

[Ganja Ninja]

34. Just be careful of a bait and switch.

I'd hate to see him sign up for WP and end up a grunt for some technicality in his contract.

[TooBigaTent]

31. There are plenty of GREAT engineering schools he can attend without becoming

part of the murder machine of our government.

Of course, if he or you are into that kind of thing, then go ahead. Also know that you have to have connections (congressional letters of sponsorship, etc.) to get in.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

32. Well, my sister-in-law worked on Vitter's campaign!

:rofl:

PS: We don't get along very well, though.

[moondust]

42. My U.S. congressman sent me a letter out of the blue.

When I was at the college-hunting stage I was surprised to receive the letter asking if I would be interested in attending the military academy, that he would be happy to submit my name if I so desired. But that was during the worst years of Vietnam when they needed young officers pretty bad so they may have sent letters out to all the male college prospects at the time. I decided against it.

[Craftsman]

37. A 2nd Cousin of mine just got out of the Navy, he went to their service academy

He did his hitch and got out. He had a good job waiting for him when he left.

[Ilsa]

38. If he has the money to go to most public universities, and he likes the idea of

military service, but isn't sure, he might consider going to one like Texas A&M. They have a huge Corps of Cadets. Outside of the military academies, they graduate more into the service than any other university. And they have a pretty good reputation as an engineering school where the graduates look after one another (almost cult-like).

[noonwitch]

40. Maybe your kid gave them the info to get a rise out of you

Kids have been known to do such things to their parents.

[mdmc]

41. good for you!

The only way in is with a letter of recommendation from a congresscritter.

[Midlodemocrat]

43. If he took any of the ACTs or SATs, that's how they got his name.

It's not what you think. It's not a recruiter calling. It's a college calling.

[leftyclimber]

44. Did he take the PSAT this year?

If he scored high the military academies will send recruiting material to him just like nonmilitary colleges. I had a friend in college who was a dance major. The Naval Academy wouldn't leave alone because of family ties to the Navy -- they kept telling her she could major in anything there. She finally said, "Oh, so you have a ballet major?" They stopped calling.

The Air Force tried to recruit me for almost eight years because I had a couple of foreign languages they wanted. Sent me birthday cards, called me on Thanksgiving and Christmas ... it was really annoying. I finally told them that everyone in my family was either in the Navy or the Marines, and that if I'd wanted to join the military I'd be in one of those two branches or be disinherited. And since the Navy wouldn't let me in (bad knees, lousy eyesight), they might as well stop calling. They eventually got the idea.

The ballet thing might work even better with a son than a daughter, though. :evilgrin:

[knitter4democracy]

45. SAT, ACT, PSAT?

They sell their lists.