Ok DUers here they go again, the poor don't pay taxes

[mrcheerful]

50% of the bottom pay no tax myth has started again.

[Zynx]

1. They pay payroll, sales, and oftentimes property taxes. In terms of federal income tax

there is relatively little.

[NMDemDist2]

7. got any facts to back that up?

or did you just pull that out of the air?

[SharonAnn]

21. Plenty of facts to back that up. Just go check the government websites.

If you're so unaware of where the data is, maybe some other members here have the time to point you to all the reliable sources.

[Zynx]

34. I don't see why I should even bother with someone like that who has no desire to learn on their own.

They obviously haven't looked into it.

[Zynx]

32. This is common knowledge as much as cigarette smoking causes lung cancer is.

I have done huge amounts of research into this matter. The vast bulk of what lower middle and lower income earners pay is not federal income tax. They pay as much or more in payroll tax alone. A decent percentage in the bottom 15-20% pay virtually no federal income tax after credits and deductions.

[NMDemDist2]

36. from Wiki

Progressivity in income tax is accomplished mainly by
establishing tax "brackets" - tranches of income
that are taxed at progressively higher rates. For example, for
tax year 2006 an unmarried person with no dependents will pay
10% tax on the first $7,550 of taxable income. The next
$23,100 (i.e. taxable income over $7,550, up to $30,650) is
taxed at 15%. The next $43,550 of income is taxed at 25%.
Additional brackets of 28%, 33%, and 35% apply to higher
levels of income. So, if a person has $50,000 of taxable
income, his next dollar of income earned will be taxed at 25%
- this is referred to as "being in the 25% tax
bracket," or more formally as having a marginal rate of
25%. However, the tax on $50,000 of taxable income figures to
$9,058. This being 18% of $50,000, the taxpayer is referred to
as having an effective tax rate of 18%.

In recent years, however, a reduction in the tax rates
applicable to capital gains, as well as dividend income, has
significantly reduced the income tax burden on non-wage
income. An argument is often made that these types of income
are not generally received by low-income taxpayers, and so
this sort of "tax break" is anti-progressive.
Further clouding the issue of progressivity is that far more
deductions and tax credits are available to higher-income
taxpayers. A taxpayer with $40,000 of wage income may only
have the "standard" deductions available to him,
whereas a taxpayer with $200,000 of wage income might easily
have $50,000 or more of "itemized" deductions. In
those two scenarios, assuming no other income, the tax
calculations would be as follows for a single taxpayer with no
dependents in 2006:
Wage income 	$40,000 	$200,000
Allowable deductions 	8,450 	51,430
Taxable income 	31,550 	148,570
Income tax 	4,445 	46,725
Effective rate 	14% 	31%

At first glance, this would appear to be highly progressive -
the person with the higher taxable income pays tax at twice
the rate. But this does not give the complete picture. If you
divide the tax by the amount of gross income (i.e. before
deductions), the effective rates are 11% and 23%: the higher
income person's rate is still twice as high, but his
deductions drive down the effective rate to a much greater
degree. In addition, most discussions of income tax
progressivity do not take into account the social security
tax, which has a "ceiling". To expand the above
example:
Social security tax 	$3,060 	$8,740
Total tax 	7,505 	55,465
[b]Rate paid on gross income 	19% 	28%[/b]

In other words, social security tax drives the effective rate
up drastically for the low-income as opposed to the
high-income taxpayer. This effect would be even more dramatic
if the high-income taxpayer had $100,000 of wages and $100,000
of dividends and capital gains. In that case his total income
tax would be $35,638, plus $7,290 of social security tax, for
a rate on gross income of 21% - very near the rate paid by the
low income wage-earner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States

[Phx_Dem]

38. employees don't pay payroll taxes

the employers do.

[goddess40]

39. it's paid for the benefit of the employee

and it's considered in the cost of the position.

[Phx_Dem]

41. It's not paid by the employee

neither is workman's comp taxes.

Obviously if a company needs to add employees they will take into account all the associated costs.

[SharonAnn]

22. here in Tennessee, there's a 5.5% sales tax on groceries, highest in the country

according to this morning's Knoxville News Sentinel article.

The poor are paying plenty.

And, regarding property taxes, remember that the rent they pay covers the property taxes the owner pays on the property. The renters pay property taxes indirectly, but it's still a cost to them.

[RebelOne]

28. When I was shopping at the outlet centers

outside of Pigeon Forge, I paid 9 percent sales tax.

[kath]

37. Actually, no. In OK sales tax on groceries (and everything) is 7.75-8.5%

Varies from town to town - 8.375% in Oklahoma City, 7.5% in Tulsa, as high as 9% in some towns.

To me, charging sales tax on groceries is an abomination. WWJT?? would jesus tax people on milk, bread, and all the food they eat? Interestingly, this horrible, regressive tax is most common, and highest, in Bible Belt states. Seems to me to be the most "un-Christian" tax there is. In OKC a poor mother buying milk for her children pays approx 34 cents in tax (milk at 3.99 per gallon here, at least), and 25 cents on a loaf of bread.
:grr: :grr: :grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. We pay over 7% here

[CTyankee]

42. In TN they tax basic food? My god!

That is intolerable. I could never live in a state with a food tax (except restaurant food). No such tax in CT. Also, no tax on clothing under $75. Our state tax is 6%. It was reduced from 8% when we got an income tax about 15 years ago...

[Lance_Boyle]

50. there's also no state income tax. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

52. We pay 9% in our town in Al.

on everything.
plus state income taxes.

[Warpy]

2. 40% of OASDI premiums are robbed and used as income taxes

That was Reagan's scam and how "lowering taxes on the rich raised revenues."

Then there are sales tax, excise tax, telephone tax, property tax, and all the various other hidden taxes on everything we use.

"The poor pay no tax" is just another way to lie with statistics. They just narrow the focus. You can turn around and say, "The poor get no tax breaks," and point to the oil depletion allowance. It's the same thing.

[NMDemDist2]

12. excuse my ignorance, but what is OASDI? n/t

[Warpy]

19. That's your Social Security premium

that was supposed to go into a trust fund so that we boomers would have enough to live on.

Johnson used a very small overpayment to help pay for Vietnam. Reagan scammed us by raising it SIX TIMES and using it like a back door tax increase on the poorest of us.

If you feel like you've been robbed for the last 25 years, it's because you have been.

[NMDemDist2]

3. where's the middle line?

we made $50k this year and paid over $4000 in Federal Income tax. guess we missed being 'the bottom half' by a couple thousand bux eh?

In 2006, the median annual household income was $48,201.00 according to the US Census Bureau.

[underpants]

6. Right $50K is the median

1/2 make more than $50K and 1/2 make less

[NMDemDist2]

14. and the $4K+ didn't include sales tax (8.3% of everything I spend)

property taxes, gasoline tax, vehicle tax and I'm sure there's several more I don't even know about

:banghead:

[underpants]

4. Lies damned lies and statistics-the "bottom 50%" is anyone who makes up to $50K a year

and people who make $50K (depending on circumstance) do NET pay taxes.

Notice that anyone who says this is rather elusive on details

Pay taxes?
in what way?
Ever (pay but get it back)?
Any (sales, personal property, income but get it all back, etc.)?
Write a check on tax day (as you should-don't give them interest free laon)?

:shrug:

They are purposely vague about that.

[NMDemDist2]

11. yeah, I wrote a check for $370 yesterday

on top of the $4100 that was with held

sigh

[underpants]

18. $1,500 yesterday

over $12K total. It was spent in Iraq in the time it took me to write the check

[NMDemDist2]

20. when I was self employed those quarterly checks made me cringe

if every taxpayer in the country had to write a quarterly check, the screams would raise the roof

fully 40% of my gross income went to taxes when you include the social security etc

[SharonAnn]

23. Remember that you have an income. That's why you have to pay those taxes.

With no income, there's no need to pay Social Security taxes or Income Taxes.

My best years by far were those years I paid a lot in taxes. Because I had lots of income!

[NMDemDist2]

33. I'm not complaining (well, not much anyway) I'm glad to pay my part

:shrug:

[treestar]

45. Bingo! The withholding system is practically brilliant

Withhold too much and then return the excess at tax time. Makes people feel like they don't pay at all and even as if the government is paying them.

It's the enforcement difficulty that gets things this way.

But take that burden off employers, and they might hire more people.

[ozu]

48. I'd prefer

Brilliant for a population without any financial discipline maybe.

I'd prefer to have nothing withheld and make quarterly payments if necessary. Better for me to earn interest from my money than to loan it to the government for the entire year for free.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

31. I had 180 on top my my state

But I did get a federal return (2K) on the 24K withheld..

[acmavm]

5. What do you expect? They pander to the ignorance of the

American people. And the American people are eager to buy into it.

[mrcheerful]

9. So true, this is the same jerk that said disabled people were just to lazy to work

because he knows a guy that can only move 3 fingers that has a job. Funn thing, when I found out about the guy in the wheelchair, he works for a rehab agency and his main income is SSDI. Mr jerk got real upset when I put out the facts, then it came out, he doesn't think its right for the disabled to sit at home watching TV and getting money for it.

[fight4my3sons]

8. well..

we receive WIC, food stamps and medicaid. We did get Federal Income taxes back, but owed state taxes. We are a one income family at the moment, three children two adults, less than $50,000 last year.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Poor people bear a larger share than any other demographic.

http://www.ctj.org/html/whopays.htm

[Lorien]

13. Thanks for that link

I'll need it when debating a repug on this issue tomorrow!

[NMDemDist2]

15. sadly that's a dozen years out of date

I'd love to see the latest numbers

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. I would too.

There is no reason to believe that its gotten better.

[Lorien]

27. There's many reasons to believe that it's gotten worse, though. n/t

[rucky]

30. Thanks!

It's dishonest to present tax burden any other way then as a percentage of income. I've been looking for charts like this.

[slackmaster]

35. Yes, sales taxes on necessities like food and clothing are the most regressive of taxes

Great link, lumberjack_jeff!

[unpossibles]

17. as someone who has been in the bottom half most of his adult life

I've always had to pay taxes except when my income was below the poverty level and even then I paid some taxes, just not as much.

[mrcheerful]

26. Oh you know that poor people don't pay any sort of taxes

especially sales taxes, thats why they get food stamps, so they don't pay anything.:sarcasm:
I mean come on, welfare queens get their income from the tax dollars others pay so its a win win for them, plus they have the freedom to sit on their sofa's all day watching TV or playing on the computer, so if the can afford the internet and cable TV they can't be poor. :sarcasm:

I the, republicon enabler, have been to other countries and I seen how the poor live in third world countries, american poor have it no where near as bad as they have it. Besides before I choose to marry my businessman husband I had to work 3 jobs, so I know nothing is as bad as they say it is. Republicon logic at its best. Then ends her post with " smile and the world smiles with you, but if you pout, you get what you want".

[hyphenate]

24. I'm on disability

and don't pay taxes on that income, but I sure as hell paid taxes all my life.

As far as my disability is concerned, I wish the idiots who say we're lazy asses and shouldn't be getting "government" money would realize we're not getting "government" money but our OWN fucking money paid into the system over the years. We're entitled to it without any apology, and yet it's harder to get than finding hen's teeth.

Let's face it: some people are just ignorant bastards and don't want to change. They expect the world to revolve around them and their prejudices instead.

[mrcheerful]

29. Don't you know? According to the republicon your share of what you paid into FISA was used up 5

years after you became disabled so your supposed to go out and get another job. Never mind how your disability effects your work ability, they know a guy in a wheelchair or a "blind" person who has a job so if they can you can. More republicon logic. Besides if you get SSI then thats welfare and your a lazy welfare queen.sarcasm:

[Breeze54]

25. Really? Then I hope they tell my son that!

He owes almost $900.00 and has to make a payment arrangement with the IRS!

Have I told you lately how MUCH I hate RepubliCONS? :grr:

[Javaman]

43. wow really? I guess someone forgot to tell me! that's it, no more paying taxes for me!

:eyes:

[TwixVoy]

44. You would be surprised how many people believe it

I had someone in upper management at my job tell me the other day how "lucky" the people at the bottom are for not having to pay taxes. I told her they DID pay taxes. All she responded with was "No they don't". Idiot.

[bikebloke]

46. I've seen different.

I worked for a bank auditing loans and saw plenty of tax returns. People making $300,000 - $500,000 a year were paying less tax than I was. Not percentage wise, but dollars. And I was earning a tad more than minimum wage without benefits.

[varelse]

47. Even our billionaires aren't all trying to pitch this one.

Warren Buffett had something to say about distribution of our tax burden, not even one year ago today.

[blogslut]

49. Here's the way I look at it

I spent many years living below the poverty line. At the end of the year, if I did my taxes, I got a refund. However, I still payed those taxes - they were taken out of my check and I had no power over those deductions other than to reduce them a tiny bit by claiming one dependent.

In my mind, I fronted my government a certain amount of money every year. In essence, I gave them a loan. At the end of the year, the only way I could get it back was to fill out those damned forms. Since I was below the poverty level, I didn't have to file taxes at all. If I had not filed taxes, the government got to keep that money.

[SoCalDem]

51. CNN reported this am that the top 10% buy over 50% of the "stuff" sold in the USA

If the rich are so abused, how are they getting all that money to buy all that stuff:rofl: