Praying passenger is removed from plane (WABC)

[eppur_se_muova]

NEW YORK (WABC) -- A passenger who left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return, was removed by an airport security guard, a witness and the airline said.

The Orthodox Jewish man, who wore a full beard, a black hat and a long black coat, stood near the lavatories and began saying his prayers while the United Airlines jet was being boarded at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday night, fellow passenger Ori Brafman said.

When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until his prayers were over in about 2 minutes, he said.

"He doesn't respond to them, but his friends explain that once you start praying you can't stop," said Brafman, who was seated three rows away.

When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn't interrupt his religious ritual and wasn't trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him, said Brafman, a writer who had been visiting New York to talk to publishers.
***
more: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6087053

Mmmmmkay ... whose side do I really want to be on here?

[slowry]

1. What if he was a snake-handler :)? n/t

[Hugabear]

13. What if he was speaking in tounges?

Can you imagine a group of fundies praying, rolling around on the floor, and speaking in tongues?

Yet somehow I think they'd get less media attention than the Muslims. :(

[Red Zelda]

2. Hey. Pray in your seat.

It's not the prayer that's out of order here, kids. If I go to a ballgame and pray on third base, the problem is I'm ON FUCKING THIRD BASE, not that I'm praying.

[Wizard777]

10. That doesn't work either. There were Muslims removed from a plane for praying in their seats.

Also there were muslim that said a prayer in the airport before boarding a plane. They were also removed. They need signs NO PRAYING ALLOWED.

[pnwmom]

23. You are leaving out some of the other details.

There was also a lot of seat switching, and one-way tickets, and a slim man asking for a seat belt extender that he then stowed under his seat.

[Wizard777]

49. Actually I did leave one detail out.

The muslims that were removed for praying on the concourse before boarding. They were removed to quell the complaints of other passenger that were afraid to fly with the muslims. No other reason.

[uppityperson]

51. Those guys were really scawwwey. (severe sarcasm)

Intolerance of other's religious practices is not new but I find it discouraging to see it here.

That case was nuts. Remember that middle eastern band that scared so many people on a flight? They nodded to each other like they knew each other, 1 sat in first class (the leader), 1 threw away a McDonald's bag in the toilet. Also very scary people.

GET A GRIP PEOPLE! argh. uppity today and intolerance/narrowmindedness pisses me off. End of rant.

Thank you for posting which group you mean.

[pnwmom]

57. I wonder if a lawsuit was ever filed. Did you hear? n/t

[Wizard777]

61. There was some talk about it. But I'm not sure if they followed through.

[iaviate1]

77. In the other case...

The passengers who were complaining should have been pulled from the plane... not the Muslims who have every right to pray in the gate area. But in this case, the airline was right. People who intentionally do things to delay flights and cause a scene will be removed so an airline has time to further evaluate them. They could be intoxicated, have a medical issue, or just be pissed off at something and want to cause trouble. In any case, pulling them so the 150+ others aren't terribly inconvenienced is an easy choice.

[iaviate1]

75. I didn't see that in the article...

And those aren't highly unusual or uncooperative behaviors like this guy was displaying.

[jmowreader]

3. You KNOW someone's going to catch hell over this

If the man started his prayers while the women with small children and the elderly who may need extra time in boarding were loading, and they still threw him off, this is utter stupidity on the part of the airline.

OTOH, if he went to the back of the plane to pray while the tug was waiting to push the plane back...well, this one's on him.

Then again...why couldn't he have prayed in his seat? What is holy about an airplane lav?

[Phx_Dem]

40. Some jewish prayers have to be said while standing

not sitting or walking around.

[iaviate1]

80. If you have a problem with aviation regs...

DON'T FLY.

[Two Americas]

95. or if you have a problem with the growing police state...

DON'T LIVE.

If you aren't doing anything, you have nothing to fear.

[iaviate1]

98. Try blocking the doors of a school...

or disrespecting the rights of MANY just to put on a show and you will likely encounter issue. The guy wasn't arrested. People needed to get on with their plans and he was being a jerk, so he was removed.

[Two Americas]

122. of course

I was being a smart ass. But there is a method to my madness. The point is that in my view people are too quick to demand compliance with rules and regulations, and given the political climate in the country that is dangerous - a much greater danger than could be caused by this person's relatively benign and harmless non-compliance.

[iaviate1]

128. It's not benign non-compliance.

The airline in question is expected to loose over $370+ million this year... at current oil prices. Airlines are fighting to stay in business and temper-tantrums are not permitted because airlines cannot afford them, especially when those causing an issue are most likely to have paid the least for their ticket.

[lapislzi]

110. There's a difference

Between the idiocy of being required to remove your shoes and compliance with in-flight safety regulations. The plane can't take off until everyone's seated. This isn't some capricious ukase of a tin god. It's deemed necessary for the safety of passengers and crew.

These regulations were in place long before the current acceleration of the police state. You are making a false comparison.

[Two Americas]

123. I disagree

No, the person was not arrested. But had he been, I doubt that the response here would have been much different. Had he been beaten and tased, there would be a little more outrage, but not a significant amount. Had he been shot dead, still there would not be consensus here about what had happened and we would have defenders of the authorities - there would be people saying "perhaps they had a reason" or "they say they were threatened, so I am waiting until all of the facts come in before I jump to conclusions" - as though "all of the facts" ever come in, and as though the problem is a lack of "facts."

The rush to side with the authorities, and to talk about the need for obeying the rules and regulations, the presumption of guilt on the part of the citizen and innocent motives on the part of those in authority is what I am talking about. That is the foundation for a police state - the attitudes and the willingness to comply and kick each other to the curb among every day people. Without that, it can't happen. With that, it is almost inevitable.

"The plane can't take off" - my, what an inconvenience. "Those laws were in place before the police state" - oh, well, then I guess that so long as the police state is using laws against people that pre-date the rise of tyranny, it is OK. What if what was required to counter the growing police state were shutting everything down with mass strikes and no planes could take off? Too inconvenient? Do you think that tyranny - the abrogation and destruction of the rule of law - needs to have new laws written sanctioning the tyranny?

[Tesha]

112. And if the "Fasten Seat Belts" sign is on?

Maybe they need to plan their flight segments so they
aren't on a plane during prayer time?

Tesha

[Betsy Ross]

4. This kind of thing happens all the time.

Sometimes, in small airports, just praying in the waiting room is enough to draw security. Happens in places other than airports as well. I'm sure Muslims get a lot of grief too.

[uppityperson]

5. If they were still boarding, I see nothing wrong with his standing and praying.

All the articles I find are the same, don't have further info. If they were still loading, I see no problem with him standing and praying.

[Tempest]

8. He did more than stand and pray

He moved away from his seat to the rear of the plane.

A big no-no.

[uppityperson]

9. Where was his seat? His friends told attendent what was going on.

Seems they could've chose to wait 2 minutes rather than summon a guard and hold up finishing preparing to leave by however longer it took.

People do leave their seats all the time for varied reasons, like "I forgot to put this in the overhead bin, let me go do it now". I know I have and have never gotten escorted off the plane. Guess I was lucky, in your view.

[Bluebear]

17. 'Urbanksi said flights cannot depart if all passengers are not in their seats'

It certainly sounds as though it was time for all passengers to be in their seats.

[uppityperson]

20. "while the United Airlines jet was being boarded "

Sounds like it was being boarded. As I said above, did a search for more info but all the stories link back to the same one. If it was being boarded, then I think they over reacted.

[Tempest]

32. You're making an assumption

He started praying while the jet was being boarded, but it doesn't say whether he was still praying when boarding ended.

The bottom line is that he ignored an order from a crew member to return to his seat and she rightfully called security.

[uppityperson]

33. As bluebear did, I am copy pasting.

Bottom line is there is everyone is assuming things since only 1 report out yet. It will be nice to see if more info comes out.

[Tempest]

36. There is one fact that is not in dispute

He was asked to return to his seat and he ignored the order.

She did the right thing.

[dysfunctional press]

109. since when? the bathrooms are in the back of the plane...

and some people like to or have to get up and stretch their legs, or just stand- and if you do so in the back of the plane, you're not blocking the aisle for others.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

116. No big no-no. People go the restrooms in the rear of the plane

during boarding, and sometimes after reaching the gate after landing. Not unusual or forbidden to leave your seat and go to the rear of the plane.

If he got up and went to the rear after the doors were closed, then I can see why the attendant would want to interrupt. If the plane was still boarding, then there's no reason to hassle the guy.

[pnwmom]

25. How about if he's in the way of the boarding?

Anyone who's standing still in an aisle is interfering in the boarding process. More than two minutes is an awfully long time to block an aisle.

[uppityperson]

27. Could be why he went to the back by the lavatories, to not block the aisle.

That is my thought.

[pnwmom]

30. Lots of flights board through both the front and the back at the same time.

There wouldn't be any good place to stand in an aisle.

And flight attendant are also busy all over the plane -- they don't need extra people standing there.

[Tempest]

34. But then he's blocking the movement of the stewardesses

During boarding, some of the stewardesses are in the back preparing the kitchen area for flight.

[uppityperson]

42. They call them Cabin Attendants now, many are men also.

[iaviate1]

81. Standing and praying is blocking the aisle / work area.

Try squeezing past somebody while boarding an airplane and see how tough it is. Go to the back of the airplane and stand still silently by a flight attendant and refuse to talk and see if that doesn't freak anybody out. It's clearly abnormal and could be a sign of intoxication, a medical issue, etc.

[uppityperson]

89. You did read where his friends explained what he was doing, didn't you?

Or are you going to continue with the possible intoxication line? Guess you must have missed that part.

[iaviate1]

99. Do you think friends would admit to intoxication?

That's naive. On edit, we have travel companions lie about their spouses medical condition when we KNOW they just had a heart attack on the flight coming into a station and they still want to continue to their final destination. Whether your friends tell an airline WHY somebody is disrupting a flight or not, it's wrong.

[Tempest]

6. According to TSA rules

When boarding a plane you are to go directly to your seat and sit down after storing your bags in the overhead bin.

You are not permitted to leave your seat until after take-off and you've been instructed by the crew it is allowed.

He should have been confronted the moment he started heading to the rear of the plane.

[ManiacJoe]

7. Do you need to pick a side?

The disruptive man chose to disobey the flight crew and received the proscribed penalty for doing so. One might even claim he learned his lesson since he did not repeat the same mistake on the next flight.

[izquierdista]

11. My religion

Says that I must wear buttless chaps and walk backwards blindfolded as I pray. I wonder why everyone thinks that odd? :shrug:

[uppityperson]

12. Are you seriously comparing Orthodox Judiasm with that?

Wow.

[coriolis]

19. Only if they missed out on the briss.

:evilgrin:

[izquierdista]

46. Are you comparing Judaism

With Ass-Backwardsism? Not nice. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster back into you and dump a load of hot pasta over your head.

[iaviate1]

82. MOST Orthodox Jews are more respectful than this one...

They have no issues with respecting others and not disrupting flights.

[mike_c]

16. you pig....

Buttless chaps are an abominable heresy. The Revealed Truth is that one must wear crotchless panties and wiggle FORWARD while sitting crosslegged ang chanting the words to the Gilligan's Island theme song.

"A three hour tour!"

[Tesha]

113. Yeah, but do you belong to the "Maryanite" or the "Gingerific" sect??? (NT)

[Ian David]

69. That's a fucking ignorant thing to say.

By definition, all chaps are assless.

Geesh!

You've just lost all your leather-fetish street-cred.

[Arugula Latte]

121. This thread is really chapping my ass.

[nosmokes]

14. WTF has happened to reason and common sense and that that rare old

bird plain old common courtesy? Dude standing back by the toilet for 2 more minutes while the plane is boarding is gonna be a lot less disruptive than cops coming on to remove praying dude.

[uppityperson]

39. Yup. Seems respecting his religion and waiting 2 minutes would delay it all less.

[iaviate1]

83. Common sense would dictate...

you follow regulations and flight attendant requests to return to your seat.

[Bluebear]

15. 'once you start praying you can't stop' - why, why happens?

[eppur_se_muova]

21. Sounds less risky than praying with your hands pointing down, anyway. nt

[uppityperson]

22. I really like how people are being inquisitive and open minded about religious stuff they don't know

It is nice to see people actually wanting to find out about other religious practices than insulting them or being rude.

[Bluebear]

26. I would hope God could handle: "Hello, Adonai? Have to return to my seat. Be with you in a minute."

(shuffle back to seat)

"OK, where where were we?...

:evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

29. Different ways of praying. I would like to know why not interupted too. Serious question.

To find out something new rather than force my beliefs on someone else.

[jberryhill]

76. I find faith fascinating...

...and have visited all sorts of houses of worship.

When you board a plane, you stow your stuff and sit down. You also follow crewmember directions.

What the guy demonstrated, prior to the flight, was that he was not going to follow crewmember directions.

It is an aircraft, not a public forum.

[Jamastiene]

103. Precisely.

I would be interested to know too. Then, again, I don't take God as the type that would take too kindly to being put on hold.

[Phx_Dem]

35. Nothing--but you have to start over

and depending on the time of day he might not have been able to start over.

[iaviate1]

84. THEN HE SHOULD HAVE BOOKED A LATER FLIGHT n/t

[coriolis]

68. Your cock falls off.

:eyes:

[kevinbgoode]

93. LOLOLOL

ROTFLMAO

[coriolis]

18. Toss his ass off. Flight rules and such.

Same goes for this prick as for the goofy Muslims in Chicago.

[uppityperson]

24. Yeah! And anyone who stands up to put something else into overhead bins too!

Once you reach your seat you should be ARRESTED if you leave it again!!!!!11 Rah rah rah! And how DARE anyone pray NOT in The True Christian Religion of Our Fine Country!! Goofuses indeed!!!1111

[coriolis]

31. You probably shouldn't smoke that stuff.

...

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

43. They guy was asked to return to his seat...

Hell he could have simply asked to be the last person borded if he had to pray 'that minute'

[jberryhill]

79. WHAT! AND MISS HIS FLIGHT!

I'm sure his god is important, but not THAT important.

[pnwmom]

28. He could have continued his prayer while he walked over to his seat

and sat down. He could probably say that prayer in his sleep.

I don't believe that Orthodox Jews are required to pray standing up even when outside circumstances prevent them.

[uppityperson]

37. I just pm'd a couple DUers who might know but aren't hanging in GD

I'll let you know what they say if I get a reply since it is always good to learn about other religions and cultures and things. And no, that wasn't said sarcastically but I do like to learn about them.

[Phx_Dem]

48. I'm going to guess that he was davening the travelers prayer

Which is usually said while standing.

[uppityperson]

50. Davening=praying?

http://koshertravelinfo.com/glossary.html
"Daven

Jewish prayer / services (Hebrew: תפלה, tefillah ; plural תפלות, tefillot ; Yiddish: davening) are the prayer recitations which form part of the observance of Judaism. Daven is the originally exclusively Eastern Yiddish verb meaning "pray"; it is widely used by Ashkenazic Orthodox Jews. These prayers, often with instructions and commentary, are found in the siddur, the traditional Jewish prayer book.

Traditionally, three prayers are recited daily, with additional prayers on the Sabbath and most Jewish holidays. A distinction is made between individual prayer and communal prayer in a Minyan (10 adult Jewish males). Communal prayer is generally preferable, as it includes components that cannot be performed without a Minyan.
"


I may be letting the general fundamentalism bs going on in the country get to me, but seriously, the mocking going on here shows real narrowmindedness and thank you. I appreciate someone who might know what was going on telling us about it.

[Phx_Dem]

53. basically means praying. nt

[pnwmom]

56. "Usually." What are the exceptions? And is there any reason

he couldn't have said it before he got on the plane?

[Phx_Dem]

59. The orthodox follow a lot of rules

How to Say Tefilas Haderech

1. It is preferable for one to pause from his travels while saying Tefilas Haderech1.

2. If it is not possible to stop, for instance if he is traveling on a bus or train, or if there is no place on the highway to stop, he may say Tefilas Haderech while traveling2.

3. If it is possible without too much inconvenience to stand while saying Tefilas Haderech, one should do so. This applies to traveling on an airplane, train, ship and the like where it is easy to say Tefilas Haderech standing3.

4. When it is possible to stop the vehicle or animal upon which one is riding, it is nevertheless not necessary to leave the vehicle or get off the animal in order to say Tefilas Haderech4.

5. Since Tefilas Haderech does not start with a berachah, it is appropriate to link it to another berachah5.

6. If one will be davening shacharis on the trip, then he can say it in the morning berachos right after the berachah of “hagomeil chassadim tovim6.” The reason for attaching Tefilas Haderech to this berachah in particular is that it includes praises to G-d for the many acts of benevolence that He performs for us. Having a safe and successful journey is one of these kindnesses7.

7. If one is traveling during the day — after he has already davened — he should first either eat or drink enough to say a concluding berachah, say the berachah, and then say Tefilas Haderech. If he does not want or does not have anything to eat or drink, he can use the lavatory and recite Tefilas Haderech after saying the berachah of asher yotzar8.

8. If by following the above suggestion he will delay the saying of Tefilas Haderech beyond the first parsah, it is better that he say it within the first parsah and thus forego connecting it to another berachah9.

9. The Chasam Sofer related that his Rebbi, Rabbi Noson Adler, would say Tefilas Haderech after saying a berachah over fragrant spices and smelling them10.

However, since the poskim ignored this suggestion, it would appear that they considered the smelling of the spices between the berachah and Tefilas Haderech as an interruption that prevents Tefilas Haderech from being juxtaposed to another berachah11.

10. When one is traveling during Chol Hamo’eid Sukkos, linking Tefilas Haderech to another berachah is not an excuse for eating mezonos foods outside the sukkah, or even taking a drink of water ( for those who are meticulous about not drinking water outside a sukkah)12.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/289764/jewish/How-to-Say-Tefilas-Haderech.htm

[uppityperson]

63. That is a lot of rules. Thank you for posting that.

[uppityperson]

92. I was just told that sometimes prayers have to be said facing a certain way also

which may explain why he stood where he did. I am not a strict religious rule person, but appreciate finding out why others do as they do. Many different ways of being.

[Phx_Dem]

114. That's true for all jews

When they are not in a synagogue one prays facing east towards Jerusalem.

[pnwmom]

55. Thank you, uppityperson. I was going through my friends in my mind,

trying to think of someone who might know. But the Jewish people I know are Reformed, I think -- definitely not Orthodox.

[Ian David]

66. Certain prayers need to be said at a precise time of day, and need to be said while standing.

Personally, I think the whole idea of having an imaginary friend who requires you to stand and bow respectfully every time you say his name is silly.

But those who believe take it very seriously, and honestly believe they have an immortal soul that is in very real danger if they piss-off their over-sensitive and self-indulgent imaginary friend.

Be they Catholics fearful of killing the tiny babies who live in their sperm, or Jews who fear not standing during the prayer that comes precisely 7 hours and eighteen minutes after sunrise, they literally see this as a matter more important than life and death.

Not to be flippant, but has anyone here every watched the movie The Sisko Kid, with Gene Wilder and Harrison Ford?

In this movie, Gene Wilder play a rabbi moving out west to find a bride, while he's being chased by bad guys. Even though his life was at risk, he refused to get on his horse and ride away from them on the sabbath, and waited until after sundown to mount-up.

Think of it like that.

[uppityperson]

72. It's not my thing either, but good to be tolerant of those who do believe and are not hurting others

Not preaching tolerance of bigots, or of those who abuse others in name of "religion", but if no one is hurt, then whatever. It takes all types.

And no, no one was hurt here.

[Ian David]

74. And never underestimate the power of ignorance. In addition to Muslims praying in the airport...

... THIS, also, triggered a terror panic:

Traditional Jewish prayer box prompts bomb scare Northwest Indiana Commuter train
Topic started by IanDB1 on Nov-18-07 07:31 AM (2 replies)
Last modified by HereSince1628 on Nov-18-07 07:51 AM



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=116&topic_id=16286

[bean fidhleir]

97. Frisco Kid, not Sisco Kid (nt)

[Ian David]

106. Yeah, that's what I meant.

The Frisco Kid (1979)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079180/

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

38. Leaving something out of the title are we ABC?

left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return

I dont care if you go back to do the rosery if you leave your seat and disobey flight attendants you should be booted from the plane..

[uppityperson]

41. You did see why he didn't obey and that his friends said why, didn't you?

You did see that his friends told the attendant what was going on, and that the attendant had the choice to either respect his religion for 2 minutes, or delay everything further by hauling him off, didn't you?

I find it amazing that so many here are either mocking or deriding this man for his religion.

[slowry]

44. He didn't have to get on the plane. He did, so he can follow their rules. Simple dimple.

Seriously, where does "simple dimple" come from? Pretty lame expression, if you ask me. But I digress...

[Parche]

52. FAA Rules

State that everyone must be seated before the plane can move...period
I dont care what religion you are, do that on your own time.
A 2-5 minute ground delay can domino into a further delay in the air, and taxiing to the
designated runway, other flights might jump ahead of yours......

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

45. Im sorry thats still not enough

Flight attendants have to worry about a thousand things for anywhere between 100-300 people!

I am not mocking or deriding his religion and to say IM doing otherwise makes you either amazingly obtuse or intentionally deceptive. I am deriding his judgment for (a) not praying 10 minutes earlier (before the plane boarded) (b) Praying 30 minutes later (when in the air) or (c) asking to be boarded last so he could pray in the terminal..

[uppityperson]

47. You are not mocking or deriding, others are. And that pisses me off.

No, you are not mocking/deriding, sorry, didn't mean you but others here have and, while I wouldn't do what this guy did, mocking and/or deriding him for doing it shows narrow minded meanness of those doing it. You are being polite and thank you.

My religious/spiritual practices are private and personal, but if someone must stand for 2 minutes in an out of the way place to pray, and friends can tell cabin attendants what's happening, and good old fashioned courtesy and common sense leads them to delay the flight further by hauling an Orthodox practitioner off, I think it's wrong.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

54. No prob, the frmat here can make it difficult to see who is talking to whom..

I personally prefer to pray on my knees and Im not fond of flying so I always pray when I get on a plane but you cant give the flight crew anything else to worry about, So I then do it in my chair. The guy really should have just asked to be boarded last so he could do it in the terminal, if they went after him for that I would be upset.

I can understand if he is prohiited from praying in that way but there were far better ways for him to deal with it as well..

[iaviate1]

87. When ANYBODY refuses to acknowledge the flight crew...

when directly addressed, there is an issue. Nothing prevented the man from explaining his beliefs BEFORE starting his prayer or explaining what he was about to do first.

[uppityperson]

90. His friends did explain. You seem to have a real problem accepting that.

The attendant was told what he was doing and why. It probably would've been better to tell in advance, but may not have thought it would cause any problem. When it did, friends told attendant what was going on. 2 minutes.

[iaviate1]

101. Friends lie.

As do spouses and any other travel companion. They want you to go with and if they were GOOD friends, they would have gone back themselves and told the guy to listen to the flight crew and stop creating a scene.

[uppityperson]

119. I bow to your obviously superior experience and personal knowledge.

[iaviate1]

127. Actually, I do have personal experience.

And personal knowledge. I deal with these issues every day. Do you?

[coriolis]

58. Not mocking his religion, observing that he was being an asshole.

He fucking well knew he was holding up the works and was trying to shove his dumb fucking behavior in everyone's face. Fuck him.

[uppityperson]

62. "Same goes for this prick as for the goofy Muslims in Chicago"

Wow, you can read minds also. You knew his intentions and "Same goes for this prick as for the goofy Muslims in Chicago" isn't mocking. Got it. It is deriding though.

[coriolis]

64. No, you're right, it is mocking. I always mock moronic assholes.

It's just what I do.

[uppityperson]

65. Does your family wear earplugs?

Must get noisy at your house.

[coriolis]

67. Naw, we don't have any uppity family members.

...

[Ian David]

71. His family eats the upitty ones when they're children. n/t

[uppityperson]

73. Guess you missed my reference.

[Ian David]

70. The penalty for disobeying FAA rules pale in comparison to eternal damnation in Hell.

Who would you rather piss off?

The FAA or Gawdallmighty?

Besides, some people operate under the mistaken assumption that Americans go out of their way to accommodate everyone's religious practices.

Of course, this only applies to mainstream, popular forms of christianity, but not everyone knows that yet.

[slowry]

86. I dunno

Can't the FAA have your ass searched? Gawd's a pushover -- never fights back or makes a peep.

[Ian David]

107. I know that. YOU know that. But in their worldview, that isn't the case. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

111. jews don't believe in hell.

nt

[Ian David]

118. Some do. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

124. not if they're orthodox- like the guy praying on the plane.

nt

[Ian David]

125. I was taught Hebrew school by an Orthodox rabbi who believed in Heaven and Hell.

In fact, I remember one time I really pissed him off by telling him I thought that Heaven must suck, if all you do is sit around under a fig tree all day.

But you'd be content, he said.

How could I be content if all I had to do was sit around under a fig tree?

God would make you content.

Well, that's hardly fair, is it? It's like that episode of Star Trek where everyone got sprayed by the intoxicating plants that made them not want to do anything but sit around all day. Why is it okay if God does it?

This was just one time of MANY I got him mad.

[dysfunctional press]

126. i was a similar thorn in the side of my lutheran school teachers, k-12.

and it being a lutheran school, all that they really taught us about the jewish people is that they killed jesus, and they eat babies...:shrug: and i think there was something in there too about how after 5,000 years of persecution, at some point don't you say to yourself- "maybe there's a reason"? (although, to be honest i think it was jackie mason who said that. or gilbert gottfried).

i ultimately 'lost the faith' somewhere during high school, and my theology teacher failed me in a required course- i was supposed to graduate halfway through my senior year, so i had to transfer to public school, where i had more than enough credits to graduate- but i had to take a self-paced civics semester course that i finished in under two weeks. and since it was illinois in the 70's, i also had to take gym- in night school. i shit you not.

as to religion, like Ulysses Everett McGill, i remain currently entirely and permanently 'unaffiliated'.

[iaviate1]

85. He's being derided for his disruption, not religion.

If he has a religious belief that would disrupt a flight, it is his responsibility to respect others instead of delaying them.

[spoony]

91. Then why are so many posts focused on his religion?

And what do you think hauling a passenger off a plane, causing a scene and waiting to get their checked baggage off the plane does? Move things along?

[iaviate1]

100. You don't know what you are talking about....

You miss a domestic flight or get hauled off, your luggage doesn't come with. The ONLY person causing a scene was the gentleman who was making a scene and being disruptive by not following regulations and IGNORING the flight crew.

[libodem]

60. Last time I flew

the young lady in the seat next to me had a rosary, small laminated picture of the virgin Mary, and genuflected as we took off. I'm not religious but told her I expected her angels to save both of us if something happened!

[iaviate1]

88. See, don't disrupt or delay the flight and everybody is happy. N/T

[girl gone mad]

105. I agree.

If he chose to ignbore that simple request, there's a chance that he might put other passenger's lives in danger by refusing to follow more important instructions.

[begin_within]

78. Who the hell does he think he is, to hold up a planeload of people?

He had better pray for his own SOCIALIZATION.

[Hardrada]

94. Must not have been a repug. They pray on their knees

in the washrooms before boarding.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. Perhaps it would have been sensible

for him to have called the airline ahead of time and made whatever arrangements were necessary.

As it is, I think the airline was entirely within their rights.

[BlueCollar]

102. Good

I have no issues with people who wish to pray on airplanes.

I do have issues with people who don't follow instructions of flight-crew members.

[Jamastiene]

104. It sounds like a case of bad timing to me.

It's hard to tell without more information, but it appears he started his prayer while the plane was still boarding and didn't finish in time. Then was asked, but had already started and could not stop for whatever reason. It all sounds like a misunderstanding and a case of bad timing to me based on the information provided so far.

[lapislzi]

108. Why is the operative word in this headline "praying?"

The operative word should be UNCOOPERATIVE or DISRUPTIVE. Then it would be a non-story. This is only "news" because someone wants to make hay over the alleged persecution of religious expression.

I'm not a fan of airlines' arbitrary rules, but sitting in your seat during takeoff is a rule that is not likely to change anytime soon. Can't say whether it's strictly necessary for safety, but it's a rule every airline has, and as such seems reasonable. If this passenger was so uninformed or obstinate that he could not or would not comply with reasonable airline regulations, then he should not be flying until he understands that the needs of the one do not trump the needs of the many.

[krabigirl]

115. Sorry..unless it's a medical issue or something, you need to go to your seat so the plane can leave.

[mnhtnbb]

117. Sit your ass down when the flight attendants say so, or get off the plane.

I don't care what religion or what you're doing.

I flew a transatlantic flight recently where a group of non-English speaking young adults (20ish)
were standing in the aisle taking pictures of each other while the flight attendant had to tell them, and motion to them, several times, to sit down, as we were ready to push back from the gate. They just kept ignoring her. I was actually hoping they would throw them off the plane.

All the people who expect special treatment had better learn some manners and show respect for fellow travelers, and stop thinking they're so damned special.

[uppityperson]

120. Today's update with a little bit more about why he prayed as he did. I agree, it was bad timing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/nyregion/18plane.html?em&ex=1208664000&en=6b3ab0175f2fb3f9&ei=5087%0A

...
Ephraim Sherman, a Torah student at the Chabad at New York University, a Hasidic group, said the man was probably saying the Amidah, an all-encompassing prayer that religious Jews say three times a day, while standing, rocking back and forth, while facing toward Jerusalem. The prayer is supposed to be said uninterrupted and typically lasts three to four minutes.

“It says in the Talmud that even if a snake curls around your ankle, you shouldn’t give up,” Mr. Sherman said. “Barring a humongous catastrophe, like if someone has a gun to your head, you don’t stop.”

But he added, “If I didn’t know what it was, I would be scared.”

[Ian David]

130. The FAA isn't as scary as a snake coiled around your ankle, I suppose. n/t

[MindPilot]

129. Why does religion excuse his actions?

If I wandered to the back of a plane and lit up a cigar, I'm sure that would be OK as long as it was part of my religious practices and my friends explained it. Right?

I sometimes think there is a motivation beyond mere religious expression in these kinds of incidents. In this case, a man creates a ruckus on an airplane (a really stupid thing to do in NY post 9/11) and makes everybody notice how dedicated he is to his faith.

Then he excuses his grossly inconsiderate look-at-me moment with the demands of his religion.