DU'rs that have ever "Punched the Clock" at a job, have you ever been asked to punch anothers card?

[A HERETIC I AM]

I'm curious how this board might react and debate this question.

If you have ever been employed at a company of any size at which you punched a time card when entering or leaving, be it a factory or an office, have you ever been asked by a co-worker to punch in or out for them? In other words, the employee leaves early and asks you to punch their card as you walk out to make it appear he was there until 4:30 (or whenever) or punch his card when you get there to make it appear he was on time when in fact he arrives late.

Did you do it?

Have you ever asked a coworker to do this for you?

Is this inherently dishonest? Or is it merely a courtesy? Or is it a way to execute a well deserved "stick it to the man" type thing that doesn't make one bat an eye?

How did the company view such a practice?

I have to step out for a few hours so I won't be responding until later, but I am curious how DU'rs view this idea.

It has happened to me in the past and I admit, I did it and felt bad about doing it. I only did it a couple of times years ago at a Metals Supply company I worked for, and it was for the same employee. I told the guy not to ask anymore. I felt he was ripping off the company and making me a party to it (and he was). I can honestly say I never asked a coworker to do the same for me.

Thoughts?

[skooooo]

1. I wouldn't do it...

It's like signing someone's else's name on a contract or something.

[rinsd]

2. One is risking one's own job doing that.

For me it would depend on my relationship with the coworker and the reason for my punching their card.

[Mountainman]

3. Dishonest.

[GrandmaJones7]

48. Like there's something wrong with sticking it to the man?

C'mon - they OWN THE FUCKING COMPANY -THERE RICH! What part of "filthy rich" do you NOT understand?!?! You have your priorities backwards.

[Mountainman]

52. How did you develop your view on this? What's your background?

You know, you can be dishonest when at work and when posting here can't you? Dishonest is dishonest no matter what the reason. You get no points from me.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. I would, but only if it was

Andrew Card. He should have told us all what he was a whisperin' in *'s ear.

[SoCalDem]

7. Slide that troll right off a short pier :) n/t

[SoCalDem]

5. nope. we had to slide our own name badge anyway

no actual "cards"..and we had to enter a code to even access the system:)

[Oceansaway]

6. back in the early 70's it went on alot

at Deere, but then they put in scan card thingys and cameras everywhere.

That made it REAL hard to do it.....

[EFerrari]

8. No and yes. At one job, both of us would have been fired instantly

no matter how innocent the deal was (punch my card while I lock my locker and I'll be right there).

At another job, a lot of times, we couldn't get off of our security board on time because we were handling a call (break in, burglary -- you can't just say, "Sorry, I'm outta here!). So, one or the other of us would punch the whole shift out, Everyone knew and nobody cared.

I've been lucky because in all my working years, I never had to deal with dishonesty in my workplace by coworkers.

[mrcheerful]

9. Personally never done the punch out game for another nor asked did my job went home.

Now my GM family members and friends did that 3 or 4 times a week as did their buddies, though one exception to it was my dad, he stayed even if he got his job done early. Dad felt he was stealing from the company if he didn't stay at work and had someone else punch out for him. But dad was of the generation that started in the 50's before the unions got the power they had in the mid to late 60's.

[kath]

39. you say that as if you think unions are a *bad* thing...?

Or am I mistaken?

[mrcheerful]

43. You are. I'm pro union all the way just some of the union workers are complete

assholes who think the world owes them special rights. I guess it has more to do with the union family members that have a complex, they brag about how they play the punch out game or the other games they play to do the least work they can. Then turn around and put anyone who isn't working for GM down for not working hard enough. Remember it was the GM worker that supported John Engler as gov of michigan. I had a few run ins with the GM workers throwing beer bottles at the people who were trying to get Engler out of office. They actually believe republican non sense even after they saw their taxes go up after Engler gutted the welfare system and still swore they got tax breaks.

[mike_c]

10. I think it's a perfectly fine way to "stick it to the man" but...

...but frankly I don't have much respect for folks who ask others to do their stickin' for them.

[cornermouse]

11. No.

And since I don't want to get fired. I wouldn't anyway.

[sandnsea]

12. I think there must be different 'rules' for different jobs

I can't remember which jobs had punch clocks when I was younger, but I know we all punched each others cards and the bosses knew about it and expected it. I also know as a secretary we never kept track of minutes here and there. I think there must be a different set of "rules" for "lowly" line workers or something, where there's more of a management worker divide.

[Indenturedebtor]

13. I have been asked

And no I wouldn't do it. It's stealing. Have a bad deal with your boss? Find an honest way out. n/t

[seabeyond]

14. Is this inherently dishonest? .... stealing,... duh. lol lol. are we really in such

confusing times to not recognize stealing. lol

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. Thanks very much for the clarification.

I'm so glad you were able to point out my inability to ascertain the obvious.

Are you available tomorrow in case I appear in your eyes to struggle with another moral dilemma?

[seabeyond]

24. look, you are taking money you did not earn. what is that BUT stealing

now you act offended because i state the obvious

this stuff is easy for me so if in the future you have a moral question, especially this easy, i would be more than happy to help.

[A HERETIC I AM]

26. I'm not acting offended because you state the obvious. I'm being sarcastic because you think

I don't get it.

look, you are taking money you did not earn. what is that BUT stealing

Where did you get the idea that I was guilty of the question in my OP? I stated that I have had in the past, one coworker that asked me to clock him out. I never said I asked anyone else to do it. I also said "I felt he was ripping off the company and making me a party to it (and he was)".

You jumped to the conclusion that because I posed the question, I must either condone it or am guilty of it. Perhaps I should further clarify the circumstances under which my anecdote occurred. I was 18 years old and on this new job for about 2 weeks. The guy that asked me to clock him out was in his 30's and had been with the company for several years. I was intimidated and trying to fit in. This was 30 god damned years ago.

OK?

So...since detecting subtlety is obviously not your strong suit, let me be clear:

Punching someone out is NEVER a good idea and if done in the manner that I described in the OP, it is in my opinion, most definitely stealing. The one doing the stealing is the person who asked to be clocked out. The person doing the clocking out is abetting - basically driving the getaway car.

Fair enough?

[seabeyond]

30. you asked if it was dishonest.... lol lol. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

31. I asked several questions. That was just one. lol lol n/t

[OhioBlue]

15. Never if they left early or came in late

I have punched someone else's card when they left at the same time - with a hey, while you're at it, will you punch me out too?

So, in summary, I didn't view punching someone else's card as taboo as long as it was an accurate reflection of their start and stop time. Such as hey - will you grab my coat and I'll punch your card.... or something like that.

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. I'd gladly have done it to my last employer.

[madokie]

17. Totally wrong

[Individualist]

18. Years ago a supervisor asked me to punch her time card

I didn't do it, and she couldn't very well retaliate and take a chance on my going to top management about it.

[bain_sidhe]

19. Once

During my down-and-out phase. I was working part time at a bookstore (cheap way to feed my reading habit) while looking for a full time "real" job. The woman I did it for had done me a big favor by covering for me so I could go to an interview, so I owed her one.

It was not a "sticking it to the man" (although we both had our issues with the manager of the store, who was the classic petty tyrant with a tiny bit of power). It was more a case of the "little people" looking out for each other, 'cause nobody else sure as hell would.

[watrwefitinfor]

20. In every factory I ever worked in or heard of it was a firing offense, and

in some states I believe it was against the law. It may even be against federal law - if I had an interest I would certainly look that up.

I use past tense, because factories in the US are past tense for the most part. I can't speak to offices, but would imagine it's similar.)

My experience has been that rules against it were selectively enforced, depending on whether they wanted you on the job, or didn't. And no, it was not used against me, for I was never stupid enough to do it. But I know people who did, and who got caught. And fired. And others who did not. Get fired.



Wat

[MrSlayer]

22. Certainly you take care of your friends.

I'm the foreman of my shift and I put my partner in if he has to take off. He did the same for me when the roles were reversed last year. I wouldn't do it for just anyone but I do it.

[uppityperson]

23. It depends on a number of factors.

[BigDaddy44]

57. Such as?

Sounds like stealing to me.

[uppityperson]

60. Is work done before then and just wasting time?

Some jobs are dependent upon an amount being done, and if that amount is done the worker sits and waits for 5 minutes so can punch out. Sometimes a job is over when replacement arrives, and the offgoing worker sits and waits for 5 minutes so can punch out. Sometimes people work together to get a set of whatever done, working as a team, as can pick up slack for each other. Sometimes a worker comes in early, and leaves early, but won't get paid unless the numbers match the "official start/end time".

Other factors: Are the workers, and the bosses, and the whole work environment honest and working together and getting stuff done? I'd rather have people doing that and making sure the cards are punched at right times than have those who hang out for the last 15 minutes, with work undone, and then make sure they punch out at the right time. Happy workers working together get more work done than those that aren't happy and feel they are merely peons being watched closely by The Boss.

Other factor may be size of company, or what they are doing. How about when someone is leaving at the same time as you are and you punch both cards as you exit (not following OP guidelines as to leaving/starting at wrong time I know).

It depends on the purpose.

[lonestarnot]

25. A very stupid thing to do.

[Codedonkey]

27. I don't believe in violence. So I would never punch anything, not even a clock.

[orleans]

28. is this a trick question?

my answer, no i wasn't asked. no, i probably wouldn't do it.

[cynatnite]

29. Sure, a couple of times...

It was a friend of mine...we were both walking in at the same time and I clocked her in right after mine. It was vice versa if she got the clock first. No big deal. Nobody was covering or lying for anyone else. We weren't trying to rip the company off or anything like that.

Now, if she had wanted me to clock her in to cover for her or something like that...nope, I wouldn't have done it. Fortunately, she was a good friend and would never have asked anyway.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

32. i haven't read the other responses, but I will say that I used to do it all the time

I had a job in a retail store, and used to "clock-in" one of my co-workers. This was typical low wage retail, and my friend worked 2 jobs to be able to provide for her family. She got off of one job at 4:30, and her shift at the store started at 5, and quite often she would be late because of traffic or whatever (she had kids) reason. I would just time her in. If management found out, i certainly would have been fired, so we kept it on the down-low. I know it was against the rules, but I really didn't care, so i don't know if that makes me a bad person or not. We pretty much went on like this for about 6 months.

Interestingly, she still works for the same store (I do not), but she is a district manager now, with 3 stores under her control. I am sure she is far more flexible with workers schedules the the prior management was with her.

[RB TexLa]

33. It's called stealing.

[GrandmaJones7]

49. Even when the owners are filthy rich capitalist fucks? Puh-lease!

-not to mention: you are being judgmental of others. Who made YOU god?

[RB TexLa]

51. So stealing is or is not stealing depending on the wealth of the victim?

And if one believes taking something you do not have a right to have is stealing, they are being judgmental?

[AlCzervik]

34. I worked at Home Depot for 7 years--it used to be good company then, anyhow

that was considered stealing time and your ass would be fired on the spot if you were caught doing that. No i never puched out for anyone, we didn't use cards, we had the Kronos computerized system and i never asked ayone to punch me out either.

[dorkulon]

35. I've done it.

As I recall, it wasn't about the money, but about company requirements that people remain until the end of their shift, whether they're needed or not. It wasn't a secret to managers, just that when someone got sent home, they were punched out at the end of their shifts, in fact to keep the bosses off managment's back.

I know a lot of people on this board will insist it's a moral evil, but in the real world people do stuff like this all the time. I'm comfortable with it.

[Melynn]

36. I've seen people do it

but I never did it and I never been asked to do it.

[flvegan]

37. I'm a people manager, and I expect it of them and am grateful for it.

Because you know what, I want my people looking out for each other. I want them working as a team in every aspect. You know why they do it? Because they don't get credit for checking in on their offtime. They don't get credit for checking their webmail, which they do. They don't get credit for going beyond. They don't get credit for the self-preservation they're forced to embrace.

So...my workers are a good team, looking out for each other (teambuilding), sharing in the corporate stupidity I allow them. I embrace their independence, ability and overall fuckyouism.

Reminds me of me a few years ago.

Especially in a production environment. Never disrupt a group that will lie, cheat and steal to meet a goal together. Cuz you know what, they will. And that, that is the bottom line.

[Laurier]

40. "Never disrupt a group that will lie, cheat and steal to meet a goal together."

By that logic, you'd be perfectly fine with the lying, cheating and stealing of the * administration.

Sorry, but I disagree. Lying, cheating and stealing to meet a goal is NOT okay. It's still lying, stealing and cheating.

"I embrace their independence, ability and overall fuckyouism."

Again, by that logic, you'd be perfectly fine with the * administration.

Again, I disagree.

[flvegan]

41. No, that's judgmental.

You swinging my workforce over to the dark side is highly suspicious, but thanks. I like the ability of my crew to fly in the face of big corporation and get shit done.

Disagree all you want, but I've got "damn fucking effective happy workers" on my side.

[Fox Mulder]

38. Yes, and I did it.

Because I have a "stick it to the man" attitude.

I never regretted it and I never felt bad for doing it and I'd definitely do it again.

[B Calm]

42. I knew a guy that use to walk in with the second shift, clock in, and

then walk out with the first shift. He would then come in later walking in with the third shift, clock out, and then walk out with the second shift. He got away with this for over a month. The foreman on days caught him in a local bar when he was suppose to be at work.

[Cleita]

59. Now that is blatant cheating. n/t

[distantearlywarning]

44. Yes, and I did it.

I don't feel the slightest bit guilty either.

I don't have any compunctions about "stealing" from the man. It was a big company who would have screwed any employee over at the drop of a hat if it thought doing so would make an extra buck.

However, I would think twice before doing that at a smaller, more "mom & pop" type business.

[Echo In Light]

45. Nope, and I've had numerous clock-punching jobs

I'm sure it happens, although I don't recall ever taking notice of it.

[Blue_Tires]

46. my job at that time had that electronic hand-reader thingy

so it was a moot point

[A HERETIC I AM]

47. I am certainly referencing a dated technology, no doubt.

I know magnetic stripe Employee ID and time cards as well as other more secure identifiers have been around for quite some time, so my question does really refer to the days back in the early 90's, 80's etc.

I find the range of answers to my question rather interesting. Thanks for your response.

[ThomWV]

50. Nope, never did - but no one ever asked me to, and I never asked, either

[yardwork]

53. I had various jobs that required punching a clock and I don't recall ever being asked to do that.

Personally, I can imagine doing this if a fellow employee had an emergency and there was a possibility that he/she would lose their job, but I would never do it on a regular basis.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

54. When I was on a timecard no one ever asked me to do that.

It's not something I would have been likely to do anyway.

[MuseRider]

55. At the hospital

when I worked in the ICU we were often there for 16 hours because our work was intensive :eyes:. We would punch each other out because too much overtime would get you in big trouble but we could not in good conscience leave when our shift was over, not until the next nurse was comfortable with what had happened and what was going on and often it took two of us. We worked many hours for no pay at all so yes, I punched the clock for others like they did for me so we could keep our jobs.

[timtom]

56. Never been asked.

Wouldn't do it.

[Cleita]

58. Yes, but it was usually only five minutes involved when

a co-worker had to leave five minutes early to catch a bus in order to pick up her kid at a day center once a week. Taking a later bus would have got her to the center after it closed on that particular day of the week when she was scheduled to work later than her usual shift.

[Spirochete]

61. One place I worked

when I was young, there werer 3 of us who always went to lunch together, When we camr back, there was always a big line punching back in, so the "designated puncher" would stand in line and catch all three cards, while the other two would just go back to the work area. That's the only illicit punching I can remember ever doing.

[A HERETIC I AM]

62. I wanted to thank those of you who voiced your opinions.

It is interesting how many different perspectives there are on what might, on its face, seem a fairly cut a dried question. Those of you who suggest it is permissible because of extenuating circumstances (employee might miss the bus to go pick up the kids, etc.) or that "we are all in line at once anyway"..etc. make, in my mind, perfectly valid points.

I have known people who, as related in a post above, blatantly took advantage of a clock-in/clock-out situation to do little to no work, thus completely defrauding the employer of the wages paid.

The reason I posted this thread in the first place is because I was thinking of a GM strike in the 90's last night that had as it's genesis, work rules that made it convenient for certain workers to leave after 4 hours because they had done their 8 hour quota. I just thought I would put up the question.

Thanks again for your interesting responses.

[MonkeyFunk]

63. I've done it

but never for somebody who left early. It was always a courtesy - you're out front finishing up - you go to punch out and your buddy says "punch me out, too". It's just to save a trip back to the clock.

I was never asked to do it as a lie for somebody.

[Horse with no Name]

64. I know two people who did and were fired on the spot

Long time employees.
No, I have never done it...because I have never worked at a place that didn't tell you not to do it up front.:shrug:

[B Calm]

65. Our small department was at the back of the factory. We use to take turns on who

was going to clock everybody out. We only cheated the clock by 5 or 6 minutes , but it gave us a chance to beat the rush out of the factory. Our supervisor didn't care and just turned his head.

[limit18]

66. Yes

Been guilty on both counts.