Just finished watching Frontline : sick around the world (another must see)

[Locut0s]

Another excellent documentary about health care around the world and how it compares to the US system. As a Canadian I'm continually fascinated and disturbed by the views expressed by the majority (in the US) in these documentaries and how they fail to jibe with the system that said majority has serving them. It's especially interesting when these documentaries focus on what is NOT right in these other medical systems. Largely the problems seem to be one of a need to tweak the price of services and drugs in these countries to stay in line with the rising operating cost of maintaining the system. Fairly minor adjustments on the whole. Doctors are sometimes unhappy with their lower salaries (though the salaries mentioned are still mostly in the $100,000+ range). Waiting times are an issue in some countries. And hospitals sometimes have trouble balancing their budgets. The solutions to these problems are mostly simple fine tuning of the system they already have in place though. It's interesting, though not surprising, to note what people's responses are when asked how they feel about their medical system in these countries as opposed to how people in the US feel about theirs. The two are mirror images of each other. 90+% are very satisfied 10 or less percent are not satisfied. Almost always the 10% are the rich and the 90% are everybody else. In the US of course it's the 10% who are satisfied and the 90% who are not. Of course the 10% are satisfied, with making untold billions of dollars of profit on the backs of the sick and dying!

It's hard to see how the nay sayers can continue to wave the false flag of "danger socialism!" whenever the issue of universal health care is brought up. Can you imagine a society much more driven by market capitalism and greed for money than Japan?! Yet they have one of the best universal health care systems in the world!

[Cleita]

1. I saw it. It was still framed with a view to marketplace,

At least they admitted that what these countries had was far superior to what we have.

[Locut0s]

2. A market based system is the only really tried and true universal health care system there is...

I'm sure there are other systems that might work but we have so much invested in market based system and as these countries show such systems can work out as universal health care systems. The government controls the boundaries to make sure everyone still gets fair service, the market system works within those boundaries to provide service.

[Cleita]

8. BS

Health care should be treated as part of the commons like roads and fire departments. Wall street profit to insurance companies should not be a consideration in delivering health care to the population. Canada and other countries have proven how it should be done and we have proved it in our Medicare system, which should be improved and extended to all Americans. For your information go to this website and read what they have to say about it:

http://www.pnhp.org

[mac2]

9. I agree but I would take a Japanese one for now.

[mac2]

11. Is this not what Hillary has in mind with keeping the insurance

companies involved and competitive? The poor would have help?

[Cleita]

12. Hillary is pandering to corporate health insurance and pharma

interests. She feels she can't fight them so she'll join them and still try to get something happening to get her elected again in 2012 from both sides of the issue. I hate how she triangulates everything. It will only create an expensive system and welfare for the insurance companies and HMO's and again we will be facing problems in a few years of underinsured and unsustainable costs. The middle men have to go.

[Art_from_Ark]

3. Japan is not particularly driven by greed for money

It's driven more by survival, and the ability to make a mark in the world. The mere acquisition of money is not the end goal for most Japanese. Naturally, there are always exceptions.

[Locut0s]

4. True. Perhaps I should have said success driven then. The basic idea still holds though...

Both the US and Japan are success driven economies. They rank 1 and 2 as the largest economies in the world. Both are highly open market driven.

I am not here to argue that culturally they are anything alike. They could hardly be any more different culturally. But from an economic point of view they share much in common. So it's interesting when universal health care nay says point to economic concerns, the "socialization of our economy" so to speak, when many of the largest open market economies in the world have working universal health care systems.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. I will agree about Japan being "success driven"

as the huge numbers of "cram schools" specializing in preparing young minds for taking the test for "top" high schools and universities can attest to.

From an economic viewpoint, the US and Japan do have much in common, due in large part to America's role first in opening Japan to the outside world in the 1850s, then as military occupier and economic mentor in the post-war era.

[mac2]

10. We taught them that after WWII.

[mac2]

6. Countries who have national health care for all aren't

called "socialist" by anyone. When Americans demand it they call them "communist". It's a fear tactic. Like if you don't support Bush's oil wars you are "anti-American" and "unpatriotic".

Shhh...don't tell anyone about Japan.

It was a mandate in 2006 election and yet they ignore it. Like it is new to the discussion and so complicated they can't address it.

[Locut0s]

7. Sadly true.