My 1986 Isuzu Trooper (SUV) used to get 28 -30 mpgs.

[canoeist52]

Our '97 Toyota 4-Runner (SUV) only gets 18 - 21 mpgs. Hmmmmm...why is that?

[liberal N proud]

1. Did your 86 have a carburetor?

I read an article several months ago (wish I could find it again) that said that as carburetors fuel efficiency was just beginning to increase they were phased out in favor of fuel injection.

I knew a college professor in the early 80's who modified a Ford F-150 to get 100 mpg.

[Tesha]

29. Bullshit.

> I knew a college professor in the early 80's who modified a Ford F-150 to get 100 mpg.

Bullshit.

If the F-150 was still able to carry the rated load at highway
speeds, it wasn't getting "100 MPG". If it was creeping along
at 25 on level ground, maybe so.

But stories like this, unqualified, are just so much bullshit.

You see, the cool thing about the "laws of physics" is that
they are the one sort of law that *CAN'T BE BROKEN*, no
matter how hard you try or how hard you wish.

Tesha

[Honeycombe8]

31. The bumblebee. Breaks all laws of physics. Just sayin'. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

32. No, it doesn't...

...the bumblebee does not break the laws of physics.

[Honeycombe8]

48. That's what I was taught in school. Something about weight of the bee...

versus wing size and speed of flapping = can not fly, according to physics. Still, it flies, anyway.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. The link I posted explains it.

The problem is not that bumblebees are not aerodynamic, but that comparing a bumblebee to an airplane is not a good analogy.

From the link:

Bees' wings are small relative to their bodies. If an airplane were built the same way, it'd never get off the ground. But bees aren't like airplanes, they're like helicopters. Their wings work on the same principle as helicopter blades--to be precise, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades," to quote one authority. A moving airfoil, whether it's a helicopter blade or a bee wing, generates a lot more lift than a stationary one.

[Honeycombe8]

50. Ah. I see. This shakes my confidence in my teachers. Were they also wrong about evolution?

Just kidding!!!!

Thanks for clarifying. I hadn't noticed you were providing a link.

[ColbertWatcher]

53. Meh.

This is one of the fastest forums on the internets.

[Tesha]

33. No it doesn't. It doesn't break *ANY* of the laws of physics.

Aerodynamicists just had a naive understanding of
how the bumblebee employed the laws of physics,
but they don't have that naivety any more.

"100 MPG pickup trucks" (that still carry pickup-
sized loads at highway speeds over normal terrain)
remain bullshit, however.

Tesha

[liberal N proud]

34. There is ample written documentation

http://www.himacresearch.com/books/crisis1.html

[Tesha]

36. No problem then -- build a sample, prove it works, make a Gazillion dollars.

Until then, I stand by "Bullshit!"

Tesha

[liberal N proud]

41. I was wondering what that smell was

Now I know it is the bullshit you have been standing by.

:rofl:

[Tesha]

43. "By", not "on". But when you're a gazillionaire...

...remember that I'm the one who goaded you into action! ;)

Tesha

[liberal N proud]

45. If only I had the funding to start

[snooper2]

38. ample written documentation...

:rofl:

And NASA has had confirmed encounters with Alien spacecraft....

it's well documented :rofl:

http://www.ken-welch.com/Reports/Aliens.html

[bbinacan]

2. Does it have a bigger engine? n/t

[DJ13]

3. My wife and I bought our first new car in 1984

It was a Honda Civic, with a 1.4l engine and an automatic transmission.

Throughout the time we owned it (over 8 years) it consistently got an average of over 38 mpg on the highway.

I think the problem with todays cars is twofold, the car companies have been in a horsepower race, and they make more money by selling cars fully loaded with useless crap that weighs them down.

[ileus]

10. BINGO!

[billyoc]

4. The electrical system of new vehicles has to be powerful enough to run a sound studio.

That requires an alternator the size of a hoover dam turbine and it takes a lot of gas to spin that pig.

[knitter4democracy]

14. I've wondered about that.

My Freestyle has plugs all over--what if I actually plugged something into every outlet, like my MIL does in her SUV? That's crazy, and it's got to affect mileage.

[Fumesucker]

15. Most electronics ony uses a few watts..

Even pretty big amplifiers only use a lot of power when you turn them to earthquake levels.

Because of the way the ear responds to sound it takes about ten times as much power to get twice as loud.. So if you keep your stereo to moderate volumes you aren't using much power at all really.

Probably the single biggest electricity user in the car is the electric radiator fan.

FWIW, 1 horsepower = 746 watts so even if you are using 75 watts for your stereo that is only 1/10 of a horsepower.

75 watts into decent speakers is LOUD!

[knitter4democracy]

17. I can't have it loud--drives me nuts.

I would think that as big as the radiator is, it would draw a lot of power for the fan. All those other systems take a lot of power, or at least, they all add up.

[Fumesucker]

20. Just putting a luggage rack on top of your car

If it doesn't have one will cut your mileage more than running a GPS, stereo and whatever else you might be able to plug in.

Most electronics will run for days on a couple of AA batteries, in the grand scheme of things the drop in mileage from having several devices plugged in will not be at all noticeable..

The single biggest thing you can do to improve gas mileage is learn to conserve momentum.. Take corners as wide as possible while slowing down as little as possible.. Coast as much as possible, do your accelerating going downhill or on the level and gradually slow down going uphill. Let off the gas as soon as you see the light turn red ahead of you..

If you really want to maximize your fuel mileage you should drive a stick and learn to pulse and glide.

http://www.metrompg.com/posts/xfi-pulse-and-glide.htm

[knitter4democracy]

22. I do a lot of that anyway.

I put it in neutral down hills, too. :)

[Quantess]

46. So do I, and I stand by it.

Some people are afraid to shift into neutral while driving, because of extra stress on the brakes. But I think it's worth the extra wear on the brakes.

[CRF450]

24. Dont forget headlights use a good bit of wattage too.

On my car I think its 45 watts for each lowbeam light, and 55 for each highbeam lights. Now many newer cars are coming with HID headlights, they are much brighter than regular halogens, but they consume less power. Some new cars now are starting to use LED's for the interior lights.

But overall, the electrical system in cars dont affect fuel milage at all. A/C does, but it only takes away a mpg or two.

[snooper2]

39. Actually, the blower motor uses the most electricity (energy)...

nt

[Stinky The Clown]

5. My 2000 Isuzu Rodeo gets a paltry 16 - 17 mpg.

Of course, when I drive it, it is either hauling a trailer or loaded to gills with tools or materials.

[rgbecker]

6. It's all about horsepower.

Except for the slightest gains in efficiency, lighter stronger materials within the engine, the overwhelming determinate of mpg your car is going to get is horsepower verses weight. You may not need all that horsepower they sell you with that car, but if it is available, you will use it, accelerating a little faster, going up hills a little faster, and paying for it all at the pump. 100 hp for a six passenger car weighing about 2800 pounds was the standard for years. Now only the cheap economy cars offer such a low horsepower.

[Fumesucker]

13. Nope.. that is not true..

The 2008 Z06 Corvette has 505 hp and gets 28 mpg on the highway..

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f11ee12

It's all about gearing and aerodynamics.. The Z06 is turning about 1600 rpm at 70 mph.

[CRF450]

23. THANK YOU!! Someone intelligent finally has a word in this horsepower stuff!

When you see 300hp on spec sheets, it means that its capable of producing that much power, but not at all times. In fact when cruising down the highway, most vehicles are only using around 30-50hp to maintain constant speed, thus not burning much gas at all. Its only when you go WOT (wide open throttle) is when it will really guzzle gas.

Todays v8 engines have comparable power to the v8's of 35 years ago and they're twice as effecient. In a lightweight aerodynamic car along with a good transmission with a tall final gear, it will get fairely decent fuel milage averaging anywhere between 20 to 25mpg, and can easily get up to 30mpg/hwy.

I dont know how 6th gear is on the Z06 Vette, but on my 01 Trans Am 6 speed, 70mph is right on 1500rpm, 80mph is only about a few hundred more rpm's. For me, this car averages around 22-23mpg, and has gotten 31mpg on the interstate with no stops at all. I was going 74mph the whole time. My T/A has a 346ci 350hp LS1 v8, can go 0-60 in 5 second, and top out around 165mph, its faster than many of the muscle cars back in the day, but that doesn't mean that its the "same old gas guzzler" like high powered cars were back then. The LS7 in the Z06 Vettes is a 7.0L monster yet it gets around the same fuel economy I'm getting.

The problem I see with newer vehicles is not only are the auto makers not making the engines as fuel effecient as possible, but the cars are getting too damn heavy and loaded with too many electronic/safety features!

[Fumesucker]

25. You told me about the twin turbo setup you're going to get..

I remember you..

It's not a matter of intelligence but knowledge, most posters here are pretty bright people, the grammar and spelling is too good for them not to be.. It's that most people are not knowledgeable about this particular aspect of technology..

An automobile is the most complex piece of technology most people will ever come into contact with and very few have a good understanding of them, these days you have to know computers and electronics as well as mechanics, fluid dynamics, aerodynamics and physics. I've been building hot rods and motorcycles since about 1969, everything from a 1962 Lotus Elite to a Sunbeam Tiger to a Plymouth Superbird to an RD350 cafe racer and the more I learn the more I realize how much I have left to learn..

I'm an electronic and electromechanical troubleshooter by trade and one of the first maxims I learned was that technical expertise is in direct proportion to the amount of equipment you have fucked up..

Well, I've had plenty of time and have fucked up plenty of equipment and I've learned from every puff of magic smoke I've let out.

I think the future is likely to see something like a turbo diesel plug in hybrid.. That would combine the advantages of several different technologies..

Run the thing on hemp oil and you could make the whole shebang not only sustainable but carbon neutral as well.

I'm reminded of Colin Chapman's formula for success with sports cars "Just add lightness"..

[CRF450]

26. Eh, it'll be a while before I get a twin turbo system, which is like almost 7 grand

My goal is 500hp which that APS system I'm interested in easily reaches, but I can do that with stock internals so it will remain pretty reliable. Atleast from the good bit of searching/research I'v done, as long as I'm not going much over 500whp and the turbo system is installed correctly, my car will still be able to make that much power reliably. Also I will need a stronger rear axle, stock rear gears on these cars are kinda weak.

I really wish ethonal could be a good alternative for us. I could easily have my converted to run that fuel.

[Mr Rabble]

28. And if you are like me, you will tune your LSx based vehicle...

with HPTuners or EFIlive. My 5.3 truck truck makes just over 300rwhp and gets about 19mpg...up 50+hp and 3mpg from stock.

[CRF450]

47. I'v been considering trying that out.

I havent tried looking for any local shops that are familiar with tuning these cars yet. I may wait untill I get the turbo system though. I dont want to try it myself, cause I dont really know how to work a handheld tuner, nor have much knowledge on tuning it.

[Mr Rabble]

55. Not exactly a handheld- with my laptop.

Although this is by no means easy, you will be able to pick it up without too much hassle. I can help point you in the right direction if you like. PM me.

[muryan]

54. 1600 at 70 is impressive

my 2000 eclipse gt is sitting at about 2400 rpm at that speed. I barely get 24 mpg :(

[aasleka]

7. 4 cylinder and standard compared to 6 cyl. auto?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. the auto industry started letting the mileage slip down

somewhere in the late 90s, which is why we don't drive any vehicle newer than that. He was working for a Chevy dealership from 1999-2004 and watched as the mileage slipped every year. They can build more efficient cars, but they don't want to.

[FlaGranny]

9. I have recently been researching

cars, looking for something relatively small and inexpensive with decent gas mileage. I was shocked to discover that my 1997 Chevy Cavalier is as good as most of the new cars of the same size and gets 21 mpg around town shopping, etc. It gets about 28 on the highway I think. Many of the new ones are rated at 20 in the city. I was blown away by that. 11 years later and lose 1 mpg???

[AlCzervik]

11. i used to have a trooper, what a great vehicle and i never had one problem with it

and it was s tick shift which is getting harder and harder to find. If i remember right it had an 18 gallon tank and it got pretty good mileage. I had a 98.

[ileus]

12. My moms '79 diesel rabbit managed 55...nt

[LostinVA]

44. My '04 Diesel Golf gets that on the highway

[flvegan]

16. We should talk weight v horsepower v gearing here.

Also, driving conditions. LOTS more idiots on the roads these days.

[kath]

18. 1990 Honda Accord got 33 mpg highway when it was fairly young. Last year, when elderly and in

fairly bad shape, still got around 30.

2003 Ford Focus (a significantly smaller car) gets only around 28 highway at best, and only about 24 mpg for our usual mix of highway and around town. SUCKS for such a small car.
The auto industry really has been letting the mileage slip. Totally pisses me off. :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Spacemom]

19. I've noticed something similar

I currently drive a 2000 minivan that gets around 18-20mpg. I've been thinking of selling and getting a car for better gas mileage. As I've been looking and researching cars, I've found that newer cars are getting the same gas mileage as my van! I have to look at really small cars to find anything close to the 30mpg I'm hoping to get. It's almost not worth it, especially with two growing boys, they would be miserable in these smaller cars.

What's going on?

[Fumesucker]

21. An Altima with a stick and a four cylinder (2.4 or 2.5)

Is a pretty comfortable car that still can get about 30 mpg on the hwy and crack 25 mpg city with careful driving.

An Infiniti G20 is another comfortable car that gets good mileage..

[ConsAreLiars]

27. My 1986 Nissan Stanza SW STILL gets 29mpg on the highway, when stuffed (photo)

full of camping gear, food, water and such. Best of all, it used none of the resources stripped out of the planet since it was made other than some gas, tires and replacement parts. Far less ecologically evil than ANY new car purchase could ever be, whatever the branding or MPG stats. It goes as far and sufficiently fast as any status symbol, whether a Hummer or a Prius, and re-use destroys far less of the planet than a new car of any type. Consumerism and buying new crap, whether a car or a pair of shoes, whether motivated by the sick egotism of the Hummer buyer or driven by the feel-good claims of eco-friendly advertisements, all of it is inherently destructive and, yes, evil.



(edit to add an adjective)

[B Calm]

30. Maybe you need a set of new rapid fire spark plugs. Check the tire pressures,

and maybe a new air filter. . .?

[LeftHander]

35. They were lighter....and tipped over in emergency manuevers....

If I recall...automakers were required to address the safety of SUVs in high speed manuvering and thus more wieght was added.

[spanone]

37. because the oil companies want your car to get the least amount of mileage

[kath]

51. BINGO!!

[Javaman]

40. Must be the extra weight via the lead paint from china. nt

[deaniac21]

42. The 4 cylinder in the Trooper only output 120 horsepower.

[Quantess]

52. Are we playing Bingo?

2 different posters on this thread apparently won a Bingo game.