Canadian children found at Texas polygamy compound: B.C.'s A-G

[Breeze54]

Canadian children found at Texas polygamy compound: B.C.'s A-G

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=455927

Kelly Sinoski, Canwest News Service and Agence France Press

Published: Friday, April 18, 2008

Canadian children are among the 416 seized from a polygamous cult in Texas last month, according to B.C.'s Attorney General.

Wally Oppal said he was alerted to the issue by federal officials Friday morning because of the similar situation in Bountiful, B.C.

"There are some Canadians involved," Mr. Oppal said Friday. "That doesn't surprise me given that we've been told there's a lot of movement back and forth in the communes. We know there are Americans in Bountiful. It's very difficult for the agencies to exactly get all the details."

However, a federal spokesman could not confirm the report.

Eugenie Cormier-Lassonde of the Department of Foreign Affairs is monitoring the situation but had not received any confirmation on the citizenship status of the children.

Mr. Oppal said federal officials are still trying to confirm how many B.C. and Canadian children were seized in the raid, which occurred at the Yearn for Zion ranch over fears that teenaged girls were being coerced into marrying, and in some cases being sexually abused by, much older men.

The compound is one of several homes of the breakaway Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

More than a thousand church members live in the closed community of Bountiful, in the B.C. Interior. "I'm always concerned. It points out to us how encompassing it is and it really knows no borders when we hear of matters like this," Mr. Oppal said. "It's chaos down there now."

In San Angelo, Texas, Friday, the raucous hearings to determine custody of the children, which may be the largest in U.S. history, entered its second day.

Randy Mankin, the editor of Eldorado Success, a weekly newspaper in the area, said the judge ordered all the children to remain in state custody for the time being.

The judge also ordered DNA tests for every child and parent from the community.

"All I can say is that some of us in Texas are standing up and cheering," Mankin said. "We're very proud of our judge."

Lawyers for the church and some of the children had tried to convince a judge that child welfare officials overstepped their bounds when they took all the ranch's children into protective custody.

But Angie Voss, a Texas child protection official, maintained that the "culture of young girls being pregnant by older men" placed all the children at risk.

The girls, she said, were in danger of sexual abuse and the boys were being "groomed" to become perpetrators.

According to numerous reports, Voss also confirmed Friday that some of the children seized are Canadian citizens.

The department asked the judge to place all the sect's children in the custody of the state after finding evidence in a days-long raid beginning April 3 that they say shows girls as young as 13 were "spiritually married" to significantly older men at the ranch.

More....

[electron_blue]

1. I'm beginning to think it's likely that female children were transported across state and

country lines, perhaps for money, with no permanent connection to their birth mother, all in the name of future spiritual marriages and/or punishments for the birth mothers?

[Breeze54]

4. Isn't that also illegal? Transporting minors across state lines?

And it has been reported that they were having a lot of trouble
trying to figure out who were the parents of some of the kids.

Hence the DNA testing.

[electron_blue]

7. Oh, yeah. I'm sure that's illegal. It's just the FLDS folks a helluva a lot more immoral/sick

than I originally thought. Sounds like slave trading of children, even possibly with multiple owners/husbands before they reach 18.

[Breeze54]

18. It's mind boggling.... Jeffs is a sociopath and these people

seem to have fallen under his spell, much like that guy in Ghana and the Koolaid suicides. :(

[TexasProgresive]

39. A little nit picking here

Guyana is where the Jonestown deaths occurred and is in South America. Ghana is in West Africa.

[Breeze54]

40. I know I spelled it wrong but the same mind set applies.

That guy was also a sociopath, just as Jeffs is and that was the gist of my reply.

I am well aware of the Jonestown deaths and all that happened but they moved there from the USA.

[TexasProgresive]

43. You didn't spell it wrong - you indicted an innocent country

of having hosted that maniac. I have friends from Ghana and they would shake their heads sadly at that.

When you put something out in a public arena you need to be sure of your facts unless you are thinking of going to work for Faux Snooze.:sarcasm:

[Breeze54]

45. Give it a rest! It was a spelling error and you knew DAMN well what I meant!!

:grr:

[kestrel91316]

48. Oh, please. That's just ridiculous.It was a silly spelling error.

Get a grip.

[Richard Steele]

50. We all know better. Take your fake outrage somewhere else- no one's buying it.

nm

[uppityperson]

53. So sue her. Mistakes happen. Thank you for correcting but drop the outrage.

"indicted an innocent country",huh. Mistake made, corrected.

[uppityperson]

22. Quite illegal.

DNA testing takes a bit of time, hence the wait which is difficult for the patience challenged.

[Breeze54]

I wonder if any 'missing kids' are there, as well.

:shrug:

I thought I had heard that the DNA testing would be fairly quick, using the mouth swab method.

Maybe they meant getting the samples would be quick.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. which could be construed as a violation of the Mann Act

I don't know if that law is still enforced, but at one time if you took underage girls over state lines for "immoral purposes" you could get into big trouble with the feds. Don't know how this applies to international borders.

[havocmom]

34. The Mann Act is what they busted Spitzer on, isn't it? And he just used consenting adult hookers

The child molesters in the Jeffs cult seem to have transported underage girls and lots of 'em from the sound of it.

[Breeze54]

35. They threatened Spitzer with it but does the MANN ACT include over international borders?

:shrug:

I don't think Spitzer has been charged... yet.

[havocmom]

51. Mann involves state borders, but I believe there are a few of those

between Canada and Texas ;)

[Breeze54]

52. No shit! LOL! But Canada is another country...

:P

[havocmom]

54. It's my neighbor just north

and I have to go through a mess of states to reach Texas. Not that I would ever be so inclined.

[Breeze54]

55. Hey, I can be in Canada within a few hours driving... if I have a passport!

:P

I'd be on the road for a few days, driving to Texas.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. wonder if the parents are with the Canadian kids

if not, then they should be returned to Canada, I'd think. If the parents are there, don't they have to have some sort of documentation, such as green cards, that would allow them to stay in the US over an extended period of time? I have a feeling they have not applied for US citizenship.

[Canuckistanian]

3. How were these people able to cross the border with impunity?

And why were BC officials blind to the problem?

And did the Texas investigators not share that info with Canadian law enforcement?

There are a lot of questions here.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. There certainly are

I wonder when Texas realized Canadians were on the ranch. If it turns out that only underage girls are involved and not whole families, would Canada have a law against transportation of minors for sexual purposes? Could they demand extradition of Americans who are involved? Will the US grant extradition?

Do you think Canada will now look closely at that FLDS place in BC?

[Breeze54]

9. The article says the Feds. notified the BC AG on Friday. n/t

[LisaL]

10. That same article says that there are americans at Bountiful in Canada.

It sounds like these people were moving between these communities.

[Breeze54]

11. Sounds like children were being moved into the US.... n/t

[LisaL]

12. You article doesn't say their parents were not there.

It says there were movements of people between those two communities.

[Breeze54]

14. But that's why they're doing DNA testing... because they can't find

the parents of some of the kids and they don't know what parents belong to what kids.

That's why they're all being tested. I know you've read about that, so stop playing stupid.

[uppityperson]

23. You give that one too much credit.

playing?

[Breeze54]

25. LOL... I was trying to choose my words....

lmao! I know she/he is playing dumb.

[kestrel91316]

24. You still supporting child rapists, lizzy?

Why?

[havocmom]

36. Small, closed cultures sometimes adopt odd practices to keep the gene pool mixed

There are some closed societies around where I live that invite young men to come in and provide fresh genetic material, but they don't want the young men hanging around afterwards.

[Breeze54]

8. A LOT of questions and more to come... n/t

[Breeze54]

28. More here.... "Canadian interests are being handled by the Foreign Affairs and Justice departments .

B.C. kids at cult compound

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, April 18, 2008

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=c7390a77-1e34-4422-b299-e57a45c81670

snip-->

Canadian interests are being handled by the Foreign Affairs and Justice departments
and Canada Border Services Agency because the Canadian children were living abroad.

snip-->

He added the province may send someone to Texas to monitor the proceedings in case there
is evidence that might help in an eventual prosecution here.

"I would think about that. But first we would want to find out what type of evidence they have,
and if it's something that relates to what is happening in Canada, we would get involved," he said.

Although lawyers may try to bring the children back to B.C., he said that might be difficult given
that most of them live in Texas with their parents and only one of the children seized from the
compound had complained about the situation.

He noted the Ministry of Children and Families can apprehend children only under certain circumstances.

"The ministry hasn't been able to apprehend anyone up here (at Bountiful) primarily because no one
has complained regarding their welfare," he said. "The government here has offered sanctuary to kids
and adults, but so far we haven't had any takers."

No one has complained? :wtf:

[liberal N proud]

13. They trade kids among the compounds much like animal breeders

It is necessary to minimize the effects of inbreeding.

[LisaL]

15. What I find really fascinating is that some articles claim CPS

is going to try and place some of those kids with relatives.
They probably do have a lot of relatives, but most of those relatives most likely live at the same kind of compounds.

[kestrel91316]

26. Lizzy, there are some FLDS who apparently DON'T participate in the

ritual rape of children.

As long as they are not aiding in the sexual and physical abuse and abandonment of minors, nobody really cares what religion they might or might not be.

But I think you knew that.

[Breeze54]

16. That's what it looks like but I also read that

some kids were visiting cousins. Problem is they don't know who the parents are of some of the kids.

That's a pretty sick thought too, gawd :grr: and I wouldn't put it past Jeffs!

[HeresyLives]

17. Bountiful BC started in 1946

and yes, they've been going back and forth across the border all this time.

Everyone knows about it, but it's a difficult problem to tackle legally. Canada's Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. It's in our Charter of Rights.

Plus no one from inside the compound will testify, so it's very hard to prove anything, even though 'everybody knows' what's going on.

Only solution to it they've come up with is to go to the Supreme Court and see how far 'freedom of religion' goes, and if there is any restriction on the practice of it.

[Breeze54]

21. But the issue is green cards and transporting minors across state lines.

Maybe they crossed over before all the 9-11 security was put in place

but wouldn't they need passports and parents with them to cross into the US?

Freedom of religion is in the US Constitution as well but this is about child abuse.

That's against the law here.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. I believe that Canadian citizens don't require US passports if coming in by land. I believe they

require a citizenship card or a birth certificate.

[Breeze54]

33. They do now! My ID was checked at the Canadian border ten yrs. ago!

I had my 8 year old son with me and they asked me a lot of questions.

One was; "Is that your child?"

[HeresyLives]

41. Most people got across on

'What is the purpose of your visit?' 'How long do you plan to stay?' 'Okay, move along'

It's never been a problem. I don't even know that it is now. It's a car full of people who are travelling to Canada or the US. They aren't 'wanted', aren't 'charged', aren't anything.

[Breeze54]

42. I was asked questions when leaving... not entering.

"Id & registration please"

"What is your address?"

"Is that your child?"

"Why were you in Canada?"

"How long have you been here?"

"What were you delivering?"

(mind you, I had on a company hat and jacket... Deliveries )

He also called me a 'smart ass, because I said I lived in

such & such town and state and didn't say my exact street address!

Then I had to show him my delivery chits!

He was an asshole!

[HeresyLives]

44. Musta been!

I've never been asked for any sort of ID, nor anymore than the standard two questions.

[Breeze54]

46. I don't know what his problem was except he was stationed in the middle of nowhere.

When I went into Canada that day, there was no one at the check point. :shrug:

[HeresyLives]

47. Petty officialdom

Yeah, lots of people like him. Give them an inch and they think they're a ruler. :)

[Breeze54]

49. Probably unless he thought drug smugglers wear official company

hats and jackets with logo's and have delivery chits that are time stamped and signed!! :rofl:

I mean, I was working FOR IBM!! :P

[sam sarrha]

19. sending children across state/international lines for the purpose of rape by fellow Pedophiles

that has gotta be a hell of long prison term

[Breeze54]

20. I wonder if any missing kids will turn up in this compound?

Just a thought... seeing as how, right now, some don't seem to be able to be matched with any parents.

:shrug:

[Disturbed]

27. This case & others will go on for many years.

The Govt. of the US & then States involved, as well as the ones in Canada have been lax for
many years. Now they are being forced to act upon this due to the "Child Abuse" claims.

[Breeze54]

30. I'm sure it will go on for years but I was just

speculating if there may be stolen/kidnapped children.

I think it's quite possible, considering Jeffs background.

[KT2000]

29. Crossing the border legally?

Something is really fishy here. Getting into the US the last several years has not been that easy. If they were wearing those weird clothes and bringing in children without birth certificates, surely they would have been detained at the US border.

[Breeze54]

31. You're right as the Jeffs ranch wasn't established until 2003.

Good observation!

[girl gone mad]

37. This Texan..

is cheering, too.

This West Texas judge has done good.

[Breeze54]

38. She is a smart one and thorough!

Now I have something to cheer for in Texas too... it's been so long. :(

[Moloch]

56. Edit: I misheard something. Sorry for my error.

The polygamists in Hildale/Colorado City are afraid to leave their houses. Its wonderful news that polygamists are being stamped out everywhere.

[HeresyLives]

57. Bountiful hasn't been raided

Not that I've heard of, anyway, and I follow the news.

[Breeze54]

58. It wasn't raided at all... no one will accept help to get out either...

But children from that group have been found in the TX colony.