Carter vs. Bush

[ck4829]

Bush:
Bush talks about "Freedom Agenda", "Bush Doctrine", or whatever it is called, saying that elections and freedom will spread throughout the world and that through elections, terrorism will be defeated because of the Iraq War.
Result of Freedom Agenda - Palestinians vote, Hamas wins (Not to mention Iran votes in a hard-liner, and Thailand and Fiji become military dictatorships)
To cover up this little mistake, the Bush Administration starts an embargo of the Palestinian territories.
Result of the embargo - Hamas and Fatah civil war
Hamas wins and takes control of the Gaza Strip

Carter:
Carter travels to Palestinian Territories against Bush Administration and Republican whining
The result? Carter says that "Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_mi_ea/carter_israel

[orangerevolution]

1. Hamas has said this before

read your history of the region.

[Ishoutandscream2]

2. Okay, Hamas has said this before

So what is Herr Bush's solution to the problem? Or better yet, what is he doing about it?

[orangerevolution]

9. Just WOW!

Just like that you ignore the killing that Hamas has done when there were agreements for peace.

[Ishoutandscream2]

10. I'm not ignoring. I want to know what Bush's solution is...

Do you know?

[orangerevolution]

12. Do I look like I have some special insight to the future

of Bush? All I can tell you is he will be out of office Jan 2009.

You would think that if Hamas was taking Pres. Carter seriously, he is a serious person, they would not kill before, during or shortly after his meetings with Hamas.

[Ishoutandscream2]

13. Okay. So when I asked what solution was, you simply said "wow"?

It was a legitimate question. Even if Carter's plan is naive, at least he's trying something. I'm simply tired of having an administration whose only solution to everything is just to ignore it or bomb the shit out of it. That's all.

[gatorboy]

15. Forget it, Jake. It's Trolltown.

[orangerevolution]

17. What is Trolltown? n/t

[gatorboy]

18. Ask the squirrel.

[orangerevolution]

20. What does Rocky have to do with Trolltown?

be clear, or add something useful.

[orangerevolution]

16. We keep talking to them,

they keep asking for "things" in agreement to stop the bloodshed. We supposedly give then the things, they continue the killing

How many years has this plan been in place?

I don't have the answer, but I can see what is not working.

[ck4829]

4. When did they say this before?

And Carter telling the world about what Hamas has said is many times better than what the Bush Administration has done. Bush and friends may as well declare themselves Hamas sympathizers because of all the advantages they gave to the terrorist group through such actions like their botched embargo.

[orangerevolution]

8. I am not going to do your research

It is up to you if you want to keep your head in the sand.

Jump to conclusions often?

[spanone]

5. regardless, talking is better than killing...

[orangerevolution]

6. Tell Hamas that, they didn't listen to Pres. Carter

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_39



Hamas suicide bombers attack Israel-Gaza crossing; 13 hurt

By YANIV ZOHAR, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 50 minutes ago


KEREM SHALOM, Israel - Hamas suicide bombers detonated two booby-trapped jeeps at an Israeli border crossing Saturday in what a top army commander said was Hamas' most ambitious attempt to target Israelis since Israel's pullout from Gaza in 2005.

Thirteen soldiers were wounded and four Hamas assailants killed in the attack on the Kerem Shalom crossing, just hours before the start of the Jewish Passover holiday, said the commander, Maj. Gen. Yoav Galant.

More at link above.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Time For Hamas To Put Up...

Hamas has thrived in the power vacuum of desperation and politization of Palenstinian people and their isolation has made violence their best means of getting attention and support. They've never had to operate in a political sense...like Arafat was forced into doing...and now we'll see if they're a serious political movement and truly interested in persuing peaceful solutions in the region or continuing to throw bombs.

Cheers...

[orangerevolution]

14. Did you even read the link?!?

The seat is still warm that Pres. Carter sat in to meet with Hamas and Hamas is throwing bombs.

[KharmaTrain]

19. This Wasn't A Peace Treaty

Yes...I strongly condemn any violence...especially that instigated by Hamas. I've been in the region and am extremely concerned with the security of the Israeli people...especially in the small zone that separates Gaza and the West Bank as well the ongoing war of attrition that has been plaguing the Gaza border since Hamas took power. As I posted earlier, violence has been Hamas' modus operendi in a power vacuum of failed diplomacy and corruption. Many are attacking Carter for even attempting to strike a dialogue...a first, small step. He has no official capacity and no real bargaining chips to offer Hamas other than a good PR opportunity...but maybe this can break up a little of that power vaccuum that could lead to forcing Hamas to both negotiate and cut the violence.

So what's your solution? Sending helicopters into Gaza and more "eye for an eye"?

[KharmaTrain]

3. More "Booosh Legacy"

This regime's lovefest with Likud has blown many opportunities to bring Israelis and Palestinians toward co-existance...from Arafat's death to putting all their eggs behind a corrupt Fatah party that created the opening for Hamas to win elections in the Gaza and gain a lot of sympathy and support in the Arab world (as well as here in the US...and DU)...many times overlooking this organization's committment to the destruction of Israel, not co-existance. The booosh regime only made things worse by not talking and then pushing Israel into a disastrous attack on Southern Lebanon.

The booosh "legacy" in the Middle East will be long studied for its total ineptitude...removing the US as an "honest broker" and thus making Israel far more vulnerable and estranged. Carter's legacy still lives in the 1977 Camp David accords and the encouragement of dialogue between the two sides. IRC, it was under Carter that King Hussein also conducted private meetings with Israel and helped foster the Oslo accords that, at one time, looked like a peace in the region was possible.

Here's a special thank-you to President Carter from an American Jew who sees dialogue as necessary and important for those who believe in a true and just peace in the region. Yes, Hamas is very much still in the terror biz, but not engaging them only makes them stronger. Let's see how they follow through as negotiators and peacemakers.

[orangerevolution]

7. "Let's see how they follow through as negotiators and peacemakers."

You answer is in the link in post 6