FLDS polygamists make at least one valid claim, IMHO:

[pnwmom]

They're asking the state not to separate nursing mothers and their babies, and I strongly agree.

What is the point of the State separating the babies from the mothers? It's not like the babies can offer any testimony. Let the nursing couples remain together in state custody, just as they are now.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9002940

SAN ANGELO, Texas -- Mothers in the polygamous FLDS sect on Monday filed a motion for a temporary restraining order demanding access to attorneys, privacy in prayer and a halt to Texas child-welfare workers plans to separate them from their breast-feeding children.

Though filed specifically on behalf of four Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints mothers, the TRO is meant to include other mothers fighting to stop the state from taking their toddlers, who were taken from the sect's YFZ Ranch earlier this month.

Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) officials have repeatedly said they plan to separate all 416 children taken from the ranch -- including those under 2 who are currently breast-feeding -- once DNA testing determines maternity. That genetic screening began today. Texas Judge Barbara Walther set an afternoon hearing to further discuss the TRO motions.

The TRO also claims that since state officials have seized all cell phones from mothers and their children, they have no means to confer with attorneys. Further, despite CPS assurances that telephone access would be provided, that has yet to happen, the mothers argue.

SNIP

[LisaM]

1. You may wish to edit your title to FLDS (not LSD)

I make the same mistake all the time. They look as if they're on LSD.

And I do agree that they went in with no clear plan on what to do with these little kids.

[pnwmom]

2. LOL! Thanks!

[kestrel91316]

8. Nah, they all look like they've been having a little too much fun with

the Quaaludes.........

[XemaSab]

3. If this were a normal group, I would agree

but since they waterboard little babies, I'm going to say that if the courts take their babies away, it's probably for the best.

[pnwmom]

4. That is why I think they should remain together but in state custody.

I don't see how waterboarding -- or any other kind of abuse -- would be an issue as long as they're under supervision.

[Warpy]

9. As long as those women are separated from the men

I sincerely doubt that kind of torture of infants will occur, if indeed it's any more than salacious media fantasy.

I have to agree that separating nursing infants from their mothers at this point is both stupid and cruel. The mothers aren't infecting their babies with cult dogma. They're feeding them.

[XemaSab]

13. I don't think it's a salacious media fantasy

Disciplining babies--often with violence-is common among fundies.

[niyad]

5. oh BS about not being able to contact their attorneys. how much time have they had on tv?

how old are these breast-feeding children, by the way?

[pnwmom]

10. The article mentions babies under 2, but doesn't mention anything

else about older toddlers.

In any case, weaning is supposed to be done at the baby or toddler's pace.

[LiberalFighter]

20. And they don't need cell phones to contact their attorney.

Even those in custody are usually not allowed to keep cell phones with them. Right?

[pnwmom]

26. But why weren't their cell phones returned to them when they were sent back

to the ranch?

That doesn't seem right.

[mrcheerful]

6. Yet this happens every day that kids are taken from unfit parents

sad things like this happen but when people abuse kids they should lose all rights to the kids. Tell me whats the difference between a bad parent who is addicted to drugs or alcohol and religious nuts when it comes to the well being of the abused kids? NONE!

[pnwmom]

11. People addicted to drugs and alcohol shouldn't be breastfeeding their children.

These decisions should be made on an individual basis. From everything I've heard, these babies and children are very healthy -- and breastfeeding would be part of that. The main evidence of abuse is related to older girls being forced into marriage. If there are any other concerns, they can be addressed by continued supervision of the mothers.

[mrcheerful]

30. True. But we don't know the whole story behind this or if the

women in question were offered supervised visitation and refused.

[pnwmom]

32. Offered visitation? What do you mean? Babies don't nurse on a schedule.

They were not offered the chance to stay with their babies -- that's the reason for the lawsuit.

As for the rest, yes, you're right -- we don't know the whole story and we probably never will. But it will be interesting to see how the judge rules on this motion.

[kestrel91316]

7. IMHO the whole "breaking the baby" thing makes the idea of keeping

them together a non-starter for me........

It's very, very sad. If they had managed to keep their mitts off the underage girls and not make a habit of abandoning minor children and mistreating helpless infants I would be of another mind........

[pnwmom]

12. Why can't the state just continue to exercise supervision of the

mothers and babies? If the mothers and babies are kept in the care of the state, separately but in the same manner as the teen mothers, what would be the risk?

But abrupt weaning IS a trauma to a baby -- we know that.

[kestrel91316]

15. I don't know. My guess is that they can't hold the mother against her wishes.

[pnwmom]

16. But they wouldn't be. The mothers are willing to stay as they are,

with their babies but in state custody.

[kestrel91316]

17. At this point I don't feel qualified to second-guess DFPS. It's

possible that they have some additional and as-yet private information that concerns them about trying that?

[pnwmom]

18. I guess time will tell -- and the lawsuit. I hope an emergency order

is put through now though, so that the babies aren't weaned abruptly before a judge even makes a determination.

[aquart]

19. Just like waterboarding.

[uppityperson]

14. I'm in agreement. Keep nursing babes with nursing moms, under supervision.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

21. yes, let the mothers stay with their babies...

and not return to the compound...

sP

[LiberalFighter]

22. Are they going to be able to determine by DNA the maternity and paternity of the children?

Isn't there a bit of incest involved and inter-breeding of other sorts?

[uppityperson]

23. Hopefully and they will find out. Hopefully.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Did you read the message part of my post? I have doubts that DNA testing will work.

[uppityperson]

27. Yes. That is why I wrote hopefully.

[LiberalFighter]

28. ABC just now saying it will be challenging to identify by DNA

[pnwmom]

31. Challenging, yes -- if nothing else because there are 416 sets of swabs

that will have to be carefully processed, in addition to twice as many for parents.

But the technology exists to make all the relationships clear, except for any identical twins.

[pnwmom]

25. DNA testing is much more advanced than it used to be. I've read that

even with the inter-breeding, they'll be able to determine maternity and paternity with a 99.99% degree of certainty.

The only problem would be with identical twins.

[LiberalFighter]

33. I doubt that

[Ilsa]

29. ITA. Let moms and babies stay together, especially nursing moms and babies. nt

[Fleshdancer]

34. Perhaps they should start pumping now just in case

I'm confused though, I thought the plan was to allow the moms with kids under the age of 5 to not be separated. When did this change?

There are so many updates everyday that it's hard to keep up. I know the state is having serious reservations on the foster placement situation. My heart broke when I heard on the local news that one of the places some if the children will go is to a group home that already takes care of 200+ lost boys.

[pnwmom]

36. Pumping won't help.

A baby that has been exclusively breastfed for months won't easily adapt to a bottle.

And what are you envisioning? Do you really think the details of that (pumping, storing, shipping, etc.) makes more sense than just allowing the mothers to continue to stay with the nursing babies?

[Fleshdancer]

37. not what I'm saying at all

I just thought that if they do separate from their babies, then at least there will be breast milk available for them. Did I somehow imply that doing this would make more sense??

[pnwmom]

38. Pumping isn't anything but a short term solution -- not something

to do for two months or longer. Taking a mother away and offering a bottle will be very disturbing to most of the babies, and the older ones will probably just reject the bottle.

If the babies were really at risk from the mothers, it would be worth the disruption to the nursing, but I don't see how the babies could be at risk if the mothers and babies are kept under supervision, just as they are now.

[Fleshdancer]

39. pumping is a plan B in this particular situation

If I were a breastfeeding mom in this case, I would fight to keep my baby and I would probably pump and freeze just in case. If stored properly, it can last for up to 6 months. Obviously not the best solution or a long term solution (depending on how long their babies breastfeed), but it's better than switching the babies to formula on top of taking them away from their moms.

[pnwmom]

40. Do you really think these low tech people are familiar with

breast pumps, freezing milk, storing it, etc.?

[ColbertWatcher]

41. They're not familiar with the 19th century, much less anything from the 20th.

(And yes, I know we're in the 21st, I just think members of this cult have a few hundred years before they catch up)

[Buzz Clik]

35. Kick!

I agree with you 100%.

[pnwmom]

42. Thanks. I heard that the judge is leaving it up to the CPS workers

and the attorneys to "work something out" -- but so far they haven't.

I'm kind of surprised that she's being so hard-nosed about this issue. If nothing else, you would think it would be bad P.R.

[EFerrari]

43. People really don't seem to understand that being in government custody

is not flowers and candy.

I'm very, very worried about those kids. :(

[LisaL]

44. CPS doesn't place adult women in foster care.

So, too bad, nursing babies.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9004942?source=rss