RESOLVED: Many of the problems America faces can be traced to extremely excessive individualism.

[TheMightyFavog]

Please discuss. Do you agree or disagree?

I am eager to hear your views on this topic. Is there too much individualism in American society?

[bluetrain]

1. No; there's not enough.

[thunder rising]

2. High schooler looking for homework tips

[HCE SuiGeneris]

6. !

:bounce: Think you may have nailed that one.

[TheMightyFavog]

8. Nope, It's been a decade since I graduated high school

I'm just curious about what my fellow DUers think about this subject.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. OK

What is it about individualism that is causing you concern in this matter?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. Bueller?

[Ron Green]

3. Damn straight. There's nothing wrong with a little social engineering.

Most of what people call "freedom" are a bunch of bad habits.

[notesdev]

12. Hey!

I like my bad habits, thank you very much!

I like my freedom too, incidentally.

[grasswire]

4. please give examples...

...of what you mean by excessive individualism.

[Cleita]

5. You can't be individual when your whole

life is dictated about what Wal-Mart wants you to buy, can you?

[Raejeanowl]

7. Oh, Absolutely

To the point where I don't give a crap about wasting my time answering this at length, not having been provided the purpose behind the question.

[TheMightyFavog]

9. I just want to see what my fellow DUers think about this subject.

Perhaps spark some friendly debate on the subject of individualism vs. collectivism.

[Why Syzygy]

13. Would you care to share your thoughts?

What made you ask the question? Anything besides curiosity?

[riverdeep]

11. Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific is the root.

This is when corporations gained legal personhood, in 1886. At this point a nearly inevitable course was set, which we are following down to the minute.

"Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Sound like a protester railing against the World Trade Organization? Think again. These are the words of a successful corporate lawyer who represented railroads before becoming president of the United States (Abraham Lincoln).

http://www.uuworld.org/2003/03/feature1a.html

[Speck Tater]

14. Individualism is the root cause of this whole "privacy" obsession.

If you are honest and law abiding you have nothing to hide, so why would you need privacy?

We should model human society on the ant colony. Every busy little worker in his place, droning away for the good of the colony. So-called "individuals" just sap strength from the colony.

:sarcasm:

But seriously, obviously, the colony would be healthier if all individualism was eliminated. But then we have to wonder, is it the purpose of individuals to serve the needs of the colony, or is it the purpose of the colony to serve the needs of the individual?

Even the word "problem" in the original question needs to be better defined. If something is viewed as a virtue by a certain individual, but that same thing is viewed as a problem by the colony as a whole, then is that thing a problem or not?

But since you ask about the problems that "America faces", the frame of reference is clearly the colony as a whole and not the individual. But most of "America's problems" are not really problems for most American individuals. On the other hand, most of America's problems are problems for SOME American individuals and SOME of America's problems are problems for MOST American individuals.

So how does one decide which individual's problems qualify as "America's problems", and which individual's problems are only individual's problems?

If I, as a hermit, living in a cave in the mountains, have no real problems, the individuality is the cause of me having no problems. And that same individuality has no impact one way or the other on the problems of the country as a whole. So in its extreme form, individuality disconnects a person from the colony, and that person no longer impacts the colony one way or the other.

Just a random brain dump.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. Well I was thinking a Individualism and the whole "I got mine, screw everyone else" attiude.

The kind of thinking that leads to the whole anti-tax attitude we see amongst the population.

[Mojorabbit]

18. As for taxes

I don't mind paying for a host of programs to benefit people and society as a whole. I do resent the enormous amt being used for the military industrial complex as well as for corporate welfare. There is no reason the govt cannot balance a budget and acct for every penny spent.
I am fiercely individualistic in my personal life but not in a "I got mine" kind of way.

[dysfunctional press]

20. you probably DO have an "I got mine" attitude...

but you'd probably follow "i got mine" with a democratic "how can i help you get yours?" rather than a republican "you get yours"

[backscatter712]

15. I'd say far more problems are tracable to excessive authoritarianism.

And I mean Right Wing Authoritarianism as discussed by psychiatrist Dr. Bob Altemeyer at the University of Manitoba. See his book The Authoritarians at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[melody]

19. Perhaps many of our problems are caused by people not respecting others' "excessive individualism"

To the point that they take up guns, try to discriminate against them, steal their money or swindle them out of it, etc, etc.

[TalkingDog]

21. Just in time for the 4th Turning....

I've been noticing you guys on TV adverts and the subtle threads in the Obama campaign.

Define "too much".

And while you are at it, define or describe what you mean by:

- problems and how, exactly, they are caused by the "extremely excessive individualism"
- what would be the antithesis of "too much" in practical terms? How little individualism are we talking?
- what would be the "right amount" and who gets to decide that?

I think if Edwards could've read the text and found a way to utilize the idea, he would've made a lot more ground.

[JCMach1]

22. not excessive individualism... excessive 'self esteem'

For example think of our self-concept of our country...

Most are centered around the superiority idea that they resort to, or border on xenophobia...

All this when the reality says... yes, we are a great country... a great country among many in the world.

[applegrove]

23. Americans creating myths make america somewhat what it is today.

[SQ_20903]

24. I think

I would have to disagree.

[LanternWaste]

25. I've never seen excessive individualism-- merely the pursuit of it.

I've never seen excessive individualism-- however, I have seen the dreams individual's hold of being a law unto themselves, a society unto themselves-- in other words, the post-apocolyptic fantasy to be the only person in the world (or the leader of the remaining few).

But I imagine that as soon as that happened, they'd get a little pissed that the X-box doesn't work anymore and that no one's left to read their blog. He'd finally realize that a chair is less stable when resting on only one leg.




For in the end, we are every one of us individual, whilst simultaneously we are every one of us dependent on those around us, the only difference being in degrees.