Elitist debate missing the point

[Spike89]

Despite what the talking heads in the media say, and even despite the current dumb-as-a-brick president, Americans aren't looking for an average or stupid candidate. It isn't that complicated, smart is good, but smug and condescending about being smart is worse than being dumb. In other words, people have pride and it doesn't matter if your policies work best for "the working class" if you package it in a wrapper of "I'll fix your miserable lives." That is exactly how we've lost a chunk of mid-america, especially the men there. They may not express it or even examine it, but they'll never be inspired about someone helping them--it feels and sounds like charity.

Those people didn't vote for W because he was stupid. They voted for him despite that. He made them feel it wasn't their fault, and he wasn't out to "fix" them, he was just going to clear the way so they could fix things themselves. It doesn't matter that his policies did just the opposite--he at least made them feel good about themselves.

Clinton (Bill) was obviously smart, maybe one of the smartest presidents of modern times. He was also very popular because he didn't make anyone ashamed of being a working person, liking NASCAR, etc.

It isn't enough to be a "champion" for the little guy, and they don't need a "friend" (some of my best friends are welders, farmers, etc.). The candidate has to make the working class feel good about themselves, or at the very least, he/she must not make them feel bad for what they are. All three of the candidates are elite, the next president is likely to be the elite person that understands that people need to hold onto their pride.

[MADem]

1. Those are cogent points you've made. NT

[Spike89]

2. Thanks

I've been here 4 years, only rarely posting (more recently) and this was my 1st OP.

[MADem]

3. Well, I gave you that rec, so here's a kick. I hope a few others see and read it.

It sure beats the hell out of what passes for discourse on other parts of the board in this "poopy primary" season!

And I agree with your analysis...it's why those "Not a hand out, just a hand" themed public service ads do so well.

[Tashca]

4. I like that last sentence

You sum it up very well with that sentence...

That is all I really want....I guess it could be called respect.

[cbayer]

5. Congrats on a great first OP. nt.

[nichomachus]

6. This is the difference between the two Dem campaigns

Everyone knows Obama's slogan "Yes, we can." That is empowering -- and it's gotten people involved because they feel they are part of the process for helping themselves.

Got to Hillary's campaign site and the first thing that greets you is "Help make history." The not-so-subtle message there is that she is going to make history and we are going to be her little helpers. It's about her.

[ms liberty]

7. Very observant, and well articulated...You should post more often! K&R n/t

[Richard Steele]

8. Very well put. K&R

[ColbertWatcher]

9. Sorry...

...but, people who continue to vote against their own best interests and the possibilities for their own children deserve every bit of scorn heaped upon them--they've earned it!

They can continue to cry victims of scrutiny, but that's too damn bad.

Those people didn't vote for W because he was stupid. They voted for him despite that. He made them feel it wasn't their fault, and he wasn't out to "fix" them, he was just going to clear the way so they could fix things themselves. It doesn't matter that his policies did just the opposite--he at least made them feel good about themselves. (Emphasis added)

This smacks of libertarian bullshit.

They voted for Bush because they cannot think for themselves. They are too influenced by the GOP-controlled media.

And, led by FOX, they did what they were told.

Their mindset goes no farther than whatever FOX tells them.

Because they have had no real education, they cannot think, much less think past whatever FOX tells them to be afraid of.

Take, for instance, jobs.

Clinton had passed a law that prevented businesses from leaving the country. One of the first things this GOP administration did was reverse this law.

And now, with the jobs disappearing overseas, what do these people say about their jobs? They blame Clinton, because FOX told them to.

How about FEMA?

In 1997, James Witt defined the very best that FEMA could do with his management of the agency during the Red River flood.

But, how do the majority of these so-called "independent middle Americans" feel about "the gubmint" after Katrina? Whatever FOX tells them to think, and it is some variation of "liberals suck" or "the gubmint takes my money". Apparently, some people cannot make a distinction between "government" and "administration". And, there is no mistaking why and how that belief is maintained.

Find any issue, and when you look at why people who vote against their best interests it is because they are allowing their thinking to be guided by FOX's propaganda.

Whatever you call these people, include afraid among them.

Oh, and here are two more "smarty-pantsers" lording their book-learnin' over simple folk.

[eridani]

11. Inflated estimates of ability are the human norm

The folks that are the minority don't have the neurotypical slightly rose-tinted glasses are prone to depression and otherwise being sourballs. However (can't find the URL, though), sourballs when evaluated as employees tend to come up with more original solutions to tough problems. When their self-assessment is compared to how their coworkers assess them, the ratings are about equal. In other words, they don't put themselves down--they are merely realistic.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Actually, it's not...

...if you look at the study I linked to, they compare people who can do stuff with people who cannot.

And the people more likely to do something with a measure of competence are less likely to overestimate how good they would be at doing it.

In other words: their realistic view of the possibility of failure and the possibility of taking difficulty for granted makes them better at doing whatever it is that they do.

it is the people who don't know enough to know they don't know anything are the ones who believe they are better at stuff than people who are actually qualified to do it.

Kinda reminds you of someone, doesn't it?

[eridani]

14. I think the article I remember was on a somewhat different track

Your citations started off with actual competence metrics for measuring its subjects, and the other study started out by classifying people as either optimistic or tending toward pessimism and depression.

[ColbertWatcher]

15. Actually...

...the study I am referring to does not start off with a measure of competence. If it seems that way, then I have not been clear.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. EXACTLY right. Thank you for this.

It is about pride, but it's more about making people believe that their contributions are valued. One needn't be stupid to make people believe this.

[Greyhound]

13. I think Bill Maher put it best, when he said, "These people are applying for a job that,

if they do it really well, will end up with their head being carved into a mountain. I want someone that is better than me in that job, and I don't give a fuck if they even like beer".