Hospital to patient: Pay us up front or we won't treat you

[Hugabear]

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/28/hospitals-to-patients-pay-us-now-or-we-wont-treat-you/

<snip>
On Dec. 6, 2006, Lisa Kelly arrived at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston with a check in hand for $45,000. It was an upfront payment for lab tests related to her leukemia.

Afterward, a hospital oncologist wanted to admit her right away for treatment. But the hospital demanded another $60,000 on the spot. It eventually cut that amount in half, but Kelly’s husband lost his cool. “What part don’t you understand?” he recalls saying. “We don’t have any more money today. Are you going to admit her or not?”

The Kellys were caught up in a growing phenomenon in hospitals: demands for payment from patients before they are given care. As a front-page article in today’s WSJ reports, hospitals are seeking cash upfront to reduce bad debt they’re experiencing amid a surge in patients who don’t pay their bills. Some are uninsured and other carry coverage that requires high co-payments.
<snip>

Can anyone give me a single convincing reason why the world's most advanced, wealthiest country cannot do single-payer health coverage? This is fucking absurd, that people will DIE because they simply can't afford to pay up front for life-saving procedures!

[MikeNearMcChord]

1. I wonder if nyceve of DailyKos has heard of this?

She is the one-woman wonder who has done a masterful job of reporting the continuing saga of our broken health-care system. If you haven't read her diaries, go do it!

[madmom]

2. Co-worker was in a car accident when she was younger, developed back

problems, needs surgery, hospital says no unless you pay up-front.Some days she can't stand up because of the pain.

[elocs]

3. Democrats should realize that healthcare is a huge, huge issue for average Americans.

Talk to people and hear the horror stories, hear how they pay through the nose for health coverage if they can get it. Hear about what life impacting problems and necessities that some stuffed shirt insurance moron claims is not covered (you may as well always deny coverage--what's the worst that can happen--they eventually get coverage). I work with a man who just started getting SS and he and his wife lost nearly all of their life savings due to her breast cancer. Multiply this story by millions of times.

[Nite Owl]

4. I never understand the logic of the right

when they can cannot see denial of service leading to someones death and suffering as murder. Is it ok if a company kills someone for money? Where are all those right to lifers?

[cloudbase]

5. How long do you think it will be

before somebody that is denied necessary treatment decides to take matters into their own hands and become famous on the evening news?

[angstlessk]

6. you are correct, they have less to lose than most others who

do the same for less!!

[MiniMe]

10. It would more likely be a relative of somebody who was denied treatment

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

23. They won't become famous

the news will report them as "hopelessly pathetic" and do some family puff-piece interviews.

It'll be the fault of the gun industry, or the fertilizer industry, never the fault of big-med or big-pharm.

I wonder how many "check out" based on financial decisions, either running out of money, or avoiding going broke.

[dkf]

7. "others carry coverage that requires high co-payments."

Even if you have health insurance you may still get treated this way...

[Marrah_G]

8. There is only one downside to switching to single payor

Only one obvious one anyway.

And even then it would be (hopefully) temporary.

That downside would be the number of people put out of work when companies are shut down. Sure some might end up working for the gov program and others would find new work in companies that can now afford to hire more people. But in the short term you would have alot of families out of work, mostly working class and struggling single parent families. The people doing the grunt work at these companies.

Regardless I am all for single payor, but we need to care for those effected during the switch.

[Donnachaidh]

11. isn't it funny how we here about all the people who would be out of work if insurance was stopped

However, we never hear of the people who are ALREADY out of work because companies cannot afford to pay the insurance policies to keep employees?

My opinion of the potentially unemployed from the insurance industry is the same said to people who have been denied insurance for pre-existing conditions, or lost jobs because the premiums were too high --

TOUGH SHIT.

You cannot sit there and whine about something you KNOW is coming. If you're not prepared to get out into another business - don't expect pity.

Thousands of Americans are losing their insurance daily. There has been no pity from the insurance companies, or the people who work for them. Don't have the GALL to expect anything but the same from those who have been treated worse than you.

:rant:

[Marrah_G]

12. Wow- just wow......... n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. The poster is right. How many stories have we heard where employees of these greedy insurance co.

sole job is too deny medical payment for much needed treatment? They don't seem to have a problem doing that. No pity for them since they show no pity for those who are denied treatment. Just doing my job is no excuse.

[Marrah_G]

20. Those jobs are only few in comparison

There are many other low level positions. Many of these people depend on these jobs and would be jobless without them.

You know what- I am done trying to have a conversation where progressives act with compassion and look at the large picture.

Instead of conversing about solutions you guys are just yelling " well fuck them- they should not have taken the job"

There is room for compassion AND change. I thought that is what makes us progressives.

[notesdev]

27. I never understood

why health care should be tied to employment in any way.

What should your employment status have to do with whether you can be treated for a medical problem? All this situation does is a) add costs, b) give employers yet another stick with which to keep employees in line.

[fed-up]

13. people dying from lack of care is more important than unemployment figures- death is permanant nt

[Marrah_G]

17. I thought I was pretty clear on my position

I agree this change needs to happen but that we must also keep in mind those who will be hurting temporarily when that change happens and attempt to help them transition into new fields.

This is something Dems should be working on. Not just saying " We want X plan" But to actually sit down and figure out the logistics of how this would work and how the transition would work.

[orangerevolution]

9. Reminds me of what happened

to someone here.

[SmokingJacket]

14. Exactly. Damn, he had to pay with Paypal funds.

The injustice and insanity make my head explode.

[orangerevolution]

21. Sometime back, I read here that he was fortunate to have two options

The one that he chose, John Hopkins. The other being a hospital in Washington near where he lived. Didn't that WA hospital not require up front payment? But I guess the treatment plan was sub-par to JH.

[riderinthestorm]

15. Andy Stephenson. Rest in peace. nt

[w8liftinglady]

16. you need to read the comments at the site

the one from "Retired hospital executive" makes me insane!

[Echo In Light]

18. Their greed will ensure the system crashes and burns, to which I say GOOD

Then and only then will more people begin demanding REAL changes. The story of how poorly this country handles health care is fucking astonishing.

[krabigirl]

22. Agree. BTW love the photo in your sig.

Haven't seen that movie in ages..

[Javaman]

24. Here's a convincing reason...

or make that several: lobbyists, pharma corps and healthcare corps all give to the candidates and congress critters so we don't have single payer healthcare.

[Stuart G]

25. This sick shit, is why I hate Bush so much.

He and his friends enabled this event. They were the midwives, and it is blood on their hands.
...Paint It Black is correct..this is absurd,

and note:
...This new form of fuck you attitude by hospitals...has happened after Sicko has gotten world wide coverage ..the hospitals don't give a damn, what else can one say......

[notesdev]

26. I can give a handful of reasons

which combined, explain the situation.

#1 Illegal aliens using hospitals as primary care then running out on the bill. Many hospitals, especially in California, have already been shut down due to this problem.

#2 Lawyers, courts, and stupid liability laws - legal costs imposed on the health care system drive up insurance costs so much that certain specialties (e.g. OB/GYN) can't even practice outside of a hospital because they can't afford the insurance @ $150k+ year. Because of this situation, many doctors practice "defensive medicine", where the primary goal is to CYA for liability. Thus many tests are taken that are unnecessary; many drugs prescribed that aren't needed, and so on. All those resources could be used to help other patients, but instead they flow into the pockets of insurance companies and lawyers.

#3 Back-assward subsidies, particularly with respect to prescription drugs. Subsidizing drugs for some people raises the cost so that they become less affordable for everyone else. Nice big giveaway to pharmas, who get added business, not so good for patients, whether subsidized or not. Produces a huge incentive to practice drug-centric medicine, which is not a good use of resources, and is not good medicine.

#4 Medical insurance companies AKA HMOs. These companies really don't have a compelling reason to exist; they just add a layer of costs and bureaucracy for no apparent benefit, and they steer patients towards treatments that are cost-effective for the HMO but not necessarily medically effective for the patient.

#5 Labor costs - this country simply does not produce enough medical professionals, especially nurses. In some cases, a good nurse can command a higher salary than a full doctor. We need to train a lot of people to do this work, which will bring costs down for everyone.