We should tax private air travel out of existence - who needs to fly to Disney World?

[ThomWV]

First, tax every seat on commercial aircraft at a rate so high that no one can afford to travel by plane - lets say the tax will be 10 times the cost of the ticket. Next, if you think this would kill business, which is nonsense of course but someone will say that would be the effect then make some portion of the tax a deductible item for business purposes.

That should save a little bit of fuel. How do they measure the fuel consumption of commercial aircraft, by how many tons they burn per hour isn't it? Does this country really need to be burning thousands of tons of aircraft fuel every day just so people can visit Disney World?

[coriolis]

1. Gee, thanks for wishing my job out of existence.

Are you drinking today?

[pitohui]

7. does the sun rise in the east? does the pope crap in the woods? yeah some wine is involved

don't worry, nobody is going to take this ridiculous proposal seriously

secure, reliable air travel is a very real good, it does bind business communities together, it does expand our concept of the world, and in its on way it does promote peace -- we were never going to have a nuclear war with russia once we had thousands of each other's top students traveling to each other's universities (one of my relatives studied in russia in the early 80s)

maybe we could all hitch a ride to disney world but most of us can't walk to moscow :-)

[leftofcool]

2. So you would punish those who need to fly other places for

say medical care? How about when some of us just want to visit our grand children or attend a funeral?

[Xithras]

21. Probably the same way we did BEFORE commercial air travel.

Hop a train. A properly designed high speed rail system could do a New York to LA nonstop run in 12 hours. When I flew from SF to New York 11 years ago, the trip took me 9 hours when you count the check-in and baggage checks, take-off delays, time spent circling JFK, and even more time waiting for my luggage at the other end. A true high speed rail system could accomplish the same trip only a few hours slower, and do with less environmental impact and more legroom. Unlike aircraft, trains often also give the option of private cabins, sleeping rooms, and onboard dining.

I'd happily trade aircraft for a decent rail system in this country.

[klyon]

28. and think of the jobs it would create

I would ride a train
I hate airplanes

[leftofcool]

34. I would to if we had a decent rail system

but until we do...........

[Lorien]

45. Yep. We've got nothing CLOSE to what they have in Europe or Japan

where you don't even need to own a car (except in a few cities like Portland and Chicago). Most US cities and towns aren't even bike friendly, and passenger rail is both hard to find and expensive.

Instead of trying to kill air travel (stupid idea all the way around), why not champion the idea of a National high speed mag-lev system with light rail connectors?

[TheWraith]

3. Uh huh. So how would you prefer people travel cross country, then?

I think in pure economical terms, building a high speed rail network is a better idea than trying to bail out the airline industry, but that doesn't mean we should deliberately kill the thing.

[lpbk2713]

4. You want more people to DRIVE to DisneyWorld?

Damn, we have enough traffic around here as it is already. :eyes:

[pitohui]

8. i'd like to see all those brits driving to disney world

no doubt they'd soon invent some cool new miniature car that could skate along the top of the atlantic ocean...!

[Lorien]

42. No kidding. I avoid I-4 at all costs

lucky for me I live downtown and telecommute to my Disney job.

[DJ13]

5. Thats a step in the wrong direction

Attempting to control behavior because some see no value in it is wrong in a country that supposedly represents the "Land of the Free" dont you think?

[Horse with no Name]

6. "Land of the Free"

Who the Hell are you kidding?

[DJ13]

9. Well, it IS an ideal we should try for

If you give up on that as an ideal we might as well become Cuba.

[Horse with no Name]

13. at least Cubans have education and Healthcare

:shrug:

[DJ13]

15. .......and a Third World Bannana Republic economy

We can do better.

(But I do want their health care system!)


:thumbsup:

[Horse with no Name]

18. Only because of the embargo WE have imposed

but that is irrelevant I suppose...I'm not going to criticize Cuba because they have definitely made lemons out of lemonade.
We can't even make hamburger out of filet mignon!

[ClassWarrior]

11. The Land of the Free to Pollute the Crap Out of Anything That Gets Our...

...Selfish Rocks Off.

NGU.

[Hydra]

10. Why bother?

The airlines are cannibalizing themselves as it is.

Besides, jet trails actually lower global temperature. Try working on something that needs to be fixed more- like the 6700 tons of radioactive sand that just got delivered from Kuwait.

[Bluebear]

12. Grand idea. Let's have everyone drive to Disney instead. That'll clean things up.

:silly:

[liberaltrucker]

14. Huh????

:smoke:

Don't bogart that joint, my friend-pass it over to me.

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. First no roads and now no air travel

what is next?

Oh I know... lets ban importing of food....

:sarcasm:

[Blue_In_AK]

17. If you take away my commercial flying privileges

I will be confined to a very small area in this very large state. I'm not quite ready for that, especially since I have a daughter in California, who I don't get to see often enough as it is.

[Bluebear]

20. Sorry, you'll just have to suffer. The OP thought this out very carefully.

;)

[Blue_In_AK]

23. Obviously.

:) The whole state of Alaska has fewer miles of roads than some large counties down south. It would even take a week or so just to get to the capitol of my own state -- involving driving over 700 miles, and then taking a ferry for a couple of days. That's just nuts.

[coriolis]

24. HEHE...I don't often literally LOL but I sure did just now!

:D

[dlfuller]

19. +lots of other benefits as well (personal opinion)

I don't think many people realize how much airplanes affect our weather. In the days after September 11th when air traffic was disallowed the changes in the atmosphere were profound. There are thousands of flights daily just within our borders.

Most business travel is bogus..trips for junkets, fun, get away, etc. Just another excuse to get perks.

And to the other posters above, just because you have been able to enjoy the privileges and benefits of an immoral industry does not justify it's existence. We the people have bailed out the airlines multiple times to no advantage to ourselves, just like the other handouts "free market" capitalists constantly receive.

There are a lot of things that need to change in fundamental ways in this country. If that requires us to change, well then it's about time.

[coriolis]

26. Sorry, you have that exactly ass-backward.

Weather affects airplanes, most assuredly NOT the other way 'round.
:eyes:

[pitohui]

29. "most business travel is bogus?" sorry, facts not in evidence

i'd like to see some proof, virtually all businesses have severe limits on who gets to travel and how, the junket days of times gone by have been gone an awful long time

maybe you think you can sell to a new customer that you've never seen, but i promise you, much as my husband would like to sleep in his own bed every night, if he doesn't meet with the chicken plant manager in person, somebody else is going to get that contract, somebody that the manager has met and talked to and can get some sense of how he's going to do the job

[notesdev]

22. Oil prices

will take care of the airline industry. We've already seen at least 4 bankruptcies and several mergers in the industry, and between the price of oil and the lack of discretionary spending, there isn't going to be much of an airline industry left soon.

[DS1]

25. Yes! They can drive on the roads you say we shouldn't be building

Brilliant!

[jobycom]

27. I think banning computers would do the trick.

All the plastic involved, all the fuel wasted producing, transporting, and selling them, all the energy burned so we can babble out our stupid-assed ideas in front of thousands... :rofl:

And, banning computers might cut greenhouse gases considerably. It would at least cut a lot of hot air! :rofl:

Yeah, I slay me, too!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Ever try driving to Disney World? Flying's worth it.

Try driving central Florida some time.

In fact, don't take my word for it...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI

[klyon]

31. maybe we could put something in jet fuel that reflected sunlight

and reversed global climate change
but high speed trains would be great
more crazy ideas

[KamaAina]

32. Well, bim goes my chance of making the next DU meetup

unless they take the Lurline out of mothballs. Even then, it would take four days to get from here to San Francisco by ship. :eyes:

[LSK]

33. who? people with kids and 2 weeks vacation per year

:shrug:

[KharmaTrain]

35. The Airlines Are Doing It To Themselves

No matter how much this regime bails them out, our current system is headed for a total implosion...that should acocmplish what you're dreaming of.

Air travel has become such a hassle that fewer and fewer people are using it. If it's not the overbearing TSA searches, it's the poor service of the airlines and delays. I travel several times a year and am looking at driving (yes, even at $4 a gallon, my car does 30MPH on the open road) or take a train rather than deal with the circus at the airport.

Don't worry about taxing people...airlines are pricing themselves out of a lot of budgets...not everyone can afford the $300 airfare that used to be $125.

Unfortunately many people who rely on tourism will have a very difficult year as more and more people stay home.

[WritersBlock]

36. Can that wait until after my father dies? I'd like to attend his funeral. n/t

[RB TexLa]

37. Then we can put a $200,000 registration fee per car and $10,000 a gallon tax on gas

and really save fuel.

:crazy:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Here's the math.

I live in Minneapolis; let's say I need to get to Chicago, which is about 400 miles away. I have two choices: driving or flying. If I drive, it will take me 6-7 hours and, at 30 mpg, I'll use 13.3 gallons of gas. If I flew, it would take about an hour. I'd probably fly in an Airbus A320, which carries about 150 passengers and uses about 5,800 pounds of fuel per hour. That's approximately 866 gallons (a gallon of jet fuel weighs about 6.7 lbs.). So it would take 866 gallons of fuel to fly my sorry butt to Chicago -- except that there are also probably going to be another 149 passengers on that airplane, not counting the crew. Per passenger, then, the fuel consumption is 5.77 gallons. If those 150 passengers decided to drive their own cars instead of fly, they would consume at least 1,995 gallons of fuel instead of the 866 gallons the airplane used.

So: I can fly for 5.77 gallons of less-refined, less expensive jet fuel, or I can drive for 13.3 gallons of more refined, more costly gasoline. Now who's the energy hog?

[coriolis]

39. How dare you wreck a perfectly good rant with facts and figures?

For shame!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. Oh, sorry. Just trying to keep my job from being wished out of existence, too.

:hi:

[Lorien]

41. Facts don't matter with this one

neither do viable clean, renewable energy solutions. They f*ck up a nice bout of hopeless pessimism.

[high density]

43. Ding ding ding!!

Commercial air travel is more fuel efficient than traveling by a car. Too bad the OP didn't research this before posting this crazy thread.

[ThomWV]

47. Your argument fails at the 8th word. Who's life depends on your being some place?

You do not need to be in Chicago, you want to be in Chicago. So you have to compare the cost you cite agains the cost of not traveling - like compare it to the cost of making a phone call instead.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

48. How do you know I don't need to go? Maybe my life does depend on it.

Maybe I have to travel for a medical procedure. For example, most of the Mayo Clinic's patients are from out of the area, and they mostly travel there by air. Should those people forego traveling to one of the best medical centers in the country, and possibly die or get sicker because of it?

Or what if it's not a life-threatening situation, but a friend or family member has died and I want to go to their funeral? Maybe a member of my family is dying and it's my last chance to see them ever again. Maybe a family member or a friend is getting married. Shall I not attend their wedding?

Maybe my business requires me to travel, since not everything can be done over the phone or the Internet.

There are plenty of reasons to travel, most of them not in the least frivolous. But even if they were, the premise of your OP is still wrong. Air travel is far more fuel efficient than driving. If your position is that nobody should travel at all, well --- good luck with that.

[Parche]

44. They Already Do

Taxes are sometimes higher then the actual ticket.............
:hi:

[alarimer]

46. Many. many states depend on tourism as part of the economy.

It would be a better idea to try an improve the fuel economy of jets.
Some people do like to travel. It is a broadening experience (something many Americans could use more of- we are often way too insular and xenophobic).

[Throd]

49. Please submit all future travel plans to the Imperial Bureau of Necessity.

Whatever your favorite hobby is, it is stupid and frivilous and should be banned because it wastes energy in some way.

[Throd]

50. Please submit all future travel plans to the Imperial Bureau of Necessity.

Whatever your favorite hobby is, it is stupid and frivilous and should be banned because it wastes energy in some way.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. You can't buy an airline ticket unless the Minister of Necessary Travel

approves your travel plans first to ensure a total lack of frivolity.

"Und SOOOO. Vat is ze real reason you vant to travel, HMMMMM?"

"Well, I need to go to my grandmother's funeral."

"Ach. Und vill zere be refreshments after ze funeral?"

"I suppose so."

"Und vill you ENCHOY ze refreshments?"

"I guess, but..."

"AHA! You vill have ze coffee und cookies? Und you vill enchoy ze coffee und cookies? BAH! Frivolous! Your request is denied! Bah!"

[Fox Mulder]

51. Instead of taxing the hell out of airlines...

how about we invest in alternative energies?

[Igel]

52. You know, it's very difficult to travel to Europe by train or bus.

I know a lot of people that go to Europe to give papers; they cancel classes on Friday and Monday to attend a weekend conference.

I also know a lot of grad students and faculty that go abroad to study or do research. One's leaving next week to do some research on her favorite Aboriginal language in NW Australia. Another is going to Kenya--she learned Swahili as an undergrad--to produce the first decent documentation of a threatened language.

Now, both are using grant money. But grant money is in short supply. Increase the cost of air travel and odds are they're not the ones that would get funded.

I've gone to Poland for dissertation research. Spent 4 weeks there. One student that graduated a year ago made several trips to Siberia to produce a better grammar of Vogul' (not the name Vogul' speakers use among themselves ... I forget what the more recent language name is for them ... Ostyak, maybe?).

My wife's dept. is mounting a large multi-year project to do field work on a continuum of Austronesian languages. Half a dozen students plus some faculty members will make a couple of trips a year to Indonesia, I think it is. No trains, buses, cars, to get there.

Now, what part of this sounds like "Disney World" to you?

Note that they *could* get their by boat. But since they have limited time, and it would take weeks to get there and weeks to get back, it's not really worth it.

BTW, when I was in high school my best friend's family went to Disney World every year. They lived in Baltimore. They drove, all night, to get there. When my best friend had his own family--he's still in Baltimore--he thought it was a great idea so that's what they do every June.