Evangelicals say faith is now too political...they've got a manifesto...

[cynatnite]

Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for "using faith" to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible, according to a draft of the document obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become `useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_re/evangelical_manifesto

:rofl:

[Clear Blue Sky]

1. That's because they don't have a candidate in this race.

[Warpy]

10. You get the gold star

If they don't get one early enough in 2012, expect them to split off and form their own party, probably with Roy Moore heading it up.

[Clear Blue Sky]

19. Maybe they put one in the VP slot, like Huckster?

[OmahaBlueDog]

24. Flip side -- maybe they get Obama to put Kaine on the ticket

I think the evangelicals feel like they've invested a lot in the GOP and have gotten little in return other than lip service.

[graycem]

2. In other words...

George Bush is giving us a bad name. :P

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Well, they have a point but it set my teeth on edge to read this bit

"express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible".

Given my experience with RW conservative evangelical Christians, this is meant uber-literally. Not my cuppa, if you know what I mean.

Moreover, I think the only reason this comes up now is that they are scared of the leftwing Christians who are making a statement these days. They seemed to have no issue with it when they had a monopoly on faith and politics.

[BattyDem]

4. It would have been nice if they realized this BEFORE giving us 8 years of Bush!

:eyes:

[coyotespaw]

6. You're forgetting the 8 years of Reagan

and the 4 years of Bush Sr. as well...

For some people it takes a couple of decades for a message to sink in.

[housewolf]

5. self-delete

[Cerridwen]

7. So, it's a problem now that the left-leaning are getting into the game?

That about cover it?

[alittlelark]

9. Yup.... that about sums up their 'problem'.

....sigh.

[Cerridwen]

13. *sigh* At least they're consistent in their hypocracy.

The more things change...

[bermudat]

8. When I hear the word 'Evangelical'

I don't think Christian, I think bush II, the politicizing of policy (abstinence teaching in high schools), and

intolerance. The christofascist zombies did it to themselves. They will be forever linked with the worst

president ever!

[mitchum]

11. Not good enough; they need to make some serious amends for the part they played...

in fucking over this country.
Maybe they could go join their imaginary friend?

[DBoon]

12. so they finally figured it out

Without separation of church and state, you will have agents of the state dictating religious doctrine.

[Preston120]

14. Hey, The religious right is neither religious or right.

[pinto]

15. It's an interesting move. (aside) I'm reading 'Justinian's Flea', an account

of the de-evolution of the European Roman Empire, from the view of the Eastern Empire in Constantinople, the role of religion as a function of the state in the process and, of course, the infamous flea borne plague that the author posits helped bring about a multi-state Europe.

Unintended consequences and happenstance.

I assume it's a good thing they look at their role in the current state of affairs.

[Mind_your_head]

16. Yes, evangelicals HAVE INDEED become "useful idiots" to the politicos

Glad they're finally realizing it.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. These people are insane...

:banghead:

[alfredo]

18. I see a major rift forming.

[galaxy21]

20. They've finally realized Bush just uses religeon for a poltical tool?

8 years and he still hasn;t crimialised homosexuality or banned abortion! The nerve!

[alfredo]

21. It didn't happen after 12 years of reagan/boosh. Short bus republicans.

[UTUSN]

22. & hell freezes n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

23. I think you're only a "useful idiot" when you allow yourself to be

I don't see "idiots" in those more left-leaning churches who walk the walk: feeding the poor, helping the sick, housing the homeless, fighting for justice.

Those who have abandoned the lessons of Jesus for right-wing, self-centered, judgemental politics - well, "idiots" might work fine there.

[Two Americas]

25. good for them

This is a very positive development. The rank and file people in the evangelical churches have been seriously misled and manipulated.

We have two possible responses - we could say, which sadly many are, "those stupid fundies blah blah blah" or we could welcome this first step toward an end to the 35 years of cultural wars - defined and controlled by the extreme right wing.

What do you think the response to this should be? Mocking and ridiculing "them," condescension and arrogance and feeling superior about ourselves? If they abandon the culture wars, is that not a good thing? Or are we so in love with the culture wars (and satisfied with being "right" while losing political power as a result of that) that we will refuse to give them up?

Millions of potential Democrats there. People from those churches at one time voted for FDR. Or are they not good enough to join our elite club? Are we more interested in fighting against the people in the culture wars, or fighting for them in the political battle? Interesting times ahead. The ball is in our court. We will now see what is really important to people - smashing "fundies" and the rest of "them," or winning political power. I don't believe that we can have both - not in the real world.

[cbayer]

27. They were sold a bill of goods and they are not happy about it.

Many feel co-opted and used. They didn't ask enough questions and did not look closely at what they were buying. The Republican party has lost a lot of these people, many of whom are against the war and many others who have turned their focus on the environment.

[Two Americas]

28. this has been percolating for a while

There has been a growing split in the evangelical community, and the Catholic community as well, over the last 4-5 years. The Old Testament fire and brimstone stone the adulterers ideas have been giving way to the New Testament doctrines of love, compassion, tolerance, and charity. The idea the Republicans have been peddling that there is a seemingly inexhaustible supply of "values voters" that they can get out to the polls, and that they own all of those people, is a lie. We should not buy into the lie, and accepting it as true but being "against" it is buying into it. They have passed the point of their maximum influence over and control of the evangelical community and it is in steep decline.

[cbayer]

29. I agree.

In addition, there has been a backlash among the liberal theological leaders who are becoming more politically active. Many feel that religion has been given a bad name by the Christian right movement and are actively involved in repairing that.

[Two Americas]

30. yes

We tend to think in binary terms about the electorate and therefore we misread them. There is a large bloc of voters who are "socially conservative and economically liberal," while the Democratic party has increasingly come under the control of those who are economically conservative and socially liberal. Since, in my opinion, the social issues are not political issues at all and can never be resolved politically, and also since they were injected into politics as a cynical move by the right wingers to pervert and corrupt politics to their advantage, I would like to see them taken out of the equation altogether. When we do that, we can hardly avoid the startling conclusion that the two parties came close to reversing roles recently - Huckabee was actually to the left of Clinton, for example on political sentiment when we ignore the culture war issues. This is a sign that the coalitions that have held the two parties together for the last three decades or so - ever since the Democratic party abandoned the politics of the New Deal and instead started waging a futile culture war with a phantom enemy that was created by right wing propaganda - have run their course now and are unraveling.

Many here deeply believe in the existence of this phantom enemy, and still see smashing that enemy as the only possible political goal, or at least the transcendent goal, that we should all fight for even though it is not properly a political goal at all, but rather a cultural goal. Of course, that game is rigged to favor the right wing - they invented it and designed it and play it masterfully.

Many will then say "but what about the progressive causes? We can't just abandon those!"

The question we need to ask is this: will we sooner realize the social goals in a context of promoting and advancing a strong left wing economic platform, or will we sooner advance the overall goals of the political left by leading with the social causes in the culture wars? The answer to this question is so obvious - that the first is the better approach, that we are forced to wonder why there is so much resistance to this? It is the shortest path to power, as well as being more principled and having the best chance of advancing the social causes.

That question becomes easier to answer when we remember that the most influential and dominant people in the liberal activist community at all levels - those who control the party narrative and direction - describe themselves as "socially liberal and economically conservative." The party cannot and does not become a serious political opposition movement - as opposed to a social opposition movement - because those who control it do not want that to happen. That leaves nothing for the public to base their decisions on other than social issues, and those social issues are all set up in such a way that the right wingers have a distinct advantage.

[cbayer]

31. I can't even begin to respond because my knowledge base on this issue is shallow.

But I have read your responses here with interest. My father is involved in an organization call "Progressive Christians Uniting". I am going to share your views with him and ask what he thinks.

[Two Americas]

33. that is great

Thanks, cbayer for reading my posts, and do let me know your father's opinion on this. I just visited the "Progressive Christians Uniting" website and did some reading there.

[coriolis]

26. "useful idiots"? Well, they're half right.

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

32. Translation: Bush made us all look like idiots

[Cerridwen]

34. Kick. n/t