Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Backward flag & the pledge of allegiance

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:57 PM
Original message
Backward flag & the pledge of allegiance
Edited on Sun May-04-08 06:11 PM by HughMoran
I was visiting my GF's new apartment, and just like someone in her old apartment building, someone had a printout of the American Flag on their door, but with the flag flying backwards (stars to the right). I made some jokes about how stupid right-wingers are and how they also think the flag is a decoration for bridges which is also highly inappropriate. I then got home and Googled "backward flag picture" and found the following discussion on a blog. Apparently somebody who is likely a conservative was complaining about the new trend of having the flag backwards on Army uniforms and how this trend was being picked up by firefighters and others. OK, so it's a somewhat interesting conversation about something that I wasn't aware of, but then somebody brought up her reference to the pledge of allegiance & it's rather interesting origins. Especially read the text I have highlighted in bold below:



I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag....

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

That’s the original version of the Pledge of Allegiance from 1892. We’ve added words along the way, but the message is still the same. We all know the words. We’ve been reciting them since way back to the days when we first started school. I can still see it clearly in my head – the chalkboard lined walls topped with a strip of alphabet chart above, the rows of little desks and chairs, and hanging above the door was the flag that each day we recited the Pledge of Allegiance to. Kind of makes me smile just thinking about it.

Maybe I’m being nostalgic, but it seems like we had more respect for things back then. We respected our teachers and because of that we behaved in class. It probably didn’t hurt that our parents were probably going to take the side of the teacher if they were called because of our misbehavior. We seemed to have far more manners than we do now – we were expected to say please and thank you. We stood quietly and obediently at our parents’ side when in public. Chivalry was far from dead. It was the norm for a man to hold the door open for a woman. Today there seems to be less and less of that. Just last night, a group of maybe 10-15 grown men stood and chatted while myself and another woman, a woman older than most of the men there, stacked chairs and put away tables after a meeting. Two of the guys jumped in to help without being asked but for the most part, the others just continued with their discussions. Kind of sad when you think about it.

Things were just different. Sure, some things have changed for the better, but it seems that we have lost some of the traditional values that we just accepted as the norm in our everyday lives. Things like the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. Ah, yes, the flag. Old Glory. Now there’s something that hasn’t changed over time with the exception of adding a star or two here and there.

Or has it?

Have you ever looked at the field uniform of an U.S. Army soldier? There on their right sleeve is the American Flag….back wards. Yes, backwards. The proper way to display the Flag is always with the union (stars) in the upper left corner. Then why is it that the U.S. Army displays it with the union on the right? The explanation you will get from some is that the flag is supposed to look like it is flowing in the wind as the soldier moves forward. OK – but then why not just put it on the other sleeve so that it can still flow naturally and be displayed properly? There is no good answer – because it’s just plain wrong. Our Founding Fathers designed the Flag and outlined very clearly how it should been seen and treated. In this day and age when we seem to continually be losing respect for all sorts of things, we can add the U.S. Flag to that list. A policy that started in the U.S. Army is spreading to police, firefighters, security guards, etc. They’re all starting to wear that damn backwards flag! What is up with that?

At first, you might think that this is no big deal, not something worth bothering with. I disagree. I think it does matter. It matters because the flag is a symbol of America and all that it stands for. It’s our logo, it’s our brand. You wouldn’t see a company tolerating their logo being displayed backwards – and we should not tolerate our country’s being displayed backwards either.

Today is Flag Day. What better day to show respect for our Flag? At noontime, there will be a Flag dedication ceremony at Manchester’s City Hall. This will also serve as the official kickoff of the Fix Our Flag campaign started by Phil Greazzo of Manchester. You can read more about the Flag – the etiquette in displaying the Flag, the problem with the backwards Flag, and how you can help fix this problem at www.FixOurFlag.org.

If you are out and about, stop by and pay your respect to that Flag that you’ve been pledging allegiance to all these years. It’s not something we should all just take for granted. It is something that deserves our respect.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 at 07:14AM by Tammy Simmons | 14 Comments
View Printer Friendly Version

Email Article to Friend

Reader Comments (14)
Tammy

This made me curious. I found one explanation from a military man that at least makes some sense.

Question: Why is the American Flag patch worn "backwards" on the shoulders of members of the U.S. Military?

Answer: A United States Flag patch always has the union of the flag (the blue field with stars) to the viewer's left.

This works well when looking at the left side of the vehicle or person, but when looking at the right side it appears the flag is flying backward when the vehicle or person is in motion. The flag would appear to be "in retreat" as the vehicle or person moves forward.

To alleviate this problem, the International Civil Aviation Organization decreed that flags painted on aircraft must face the direction of the flight so that it's aerodynamically and aesthetically correct. For consistency, the Flag Foundation recommends that flags or flag decals on vehicles, as well as flag patches on uniforms, should be displayed in the same manner.

Therefore, the American Flag patch on the left sleeve of a Military uniform should have the union to the viewer's left. A flag patch on the right sleeve should be displayed with the union to the viewer's right. In both cases the flag is facing forward and is streaming to the back as the person moves forward.


June 14, 2007 | Chaz Proulx
Tammy,

I've also seen flags upside down on uniforms before, which I never understood until I saw why in Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, Subsection a of US Code (the federal RSAs) which states that an upside down flag is a symbol of distress or that the bearer is under imminent danger.
June 14, 2007 | Andrew Sylvia
Great article! I love our Flag!
June 14, 2007 | Betty
From an Aesthetic point of view I agree with Tammy. It looks weird. But I don't want to second guess the US Army.
June 14, 2007 | Chaz Proulx
Chaz -

The Navy and the Air Force wear it properly, the Marines don't wear it at all. It's not the the Army's discretion as to how the flag is properly displayed.

Regardless - thanks for reading and posting.
June 14, 2007 | Tammy Simmons
Greazzo has me convinced. The General who ordered the flag change should have his decision reversed by the president, who is by law the ultimate arbiter of such matters.

The "reverse image" argument only holds water if there's actually a flag on the left shoulder as well. It makes sense on an airplane, but I don't like it on uniforms... and it isn't just Army guys -- Fire departments, security guards, lots of people are picking up the "backwards flag" virus!

MAD MAX



June 15, 2007 | MAD MAX
Also, airplanes go really fast. Army guys marching with a five mph (or more) wind at their backs would not need backwards flags. ;)

MAD MAX
June 15, 2007 | MAD MAX
This IS pretty strange. It's not earth shattering but just a little off kilter

Somebody in the Army must have been thinking overtime to come up with this idea.


June 15, 2007 | Chaz Proulx
Yup, "off kilter" is right... I try not to spend much time thinking about the backwards flag, but since Greazzo got me going on this, I've started noticing them all over the place!

MAD MAX
June 16, 2007 | MAD MAX
Dear Tammy,

Do other democracies force their children to recite a loyalty oath every morning?

Are you aware that the pledge was written by a *gasp* SOCIALIST??




June 17, 2007 | naughty
Now, now naughty. :)
June 17, 2007 | Tammy
Tammy,

Not sure you realize the extent to which naughty is correct. You may not enjoy this link: http://www.cato.org/dailys/11-04-03.html

Excerpt:

"It's probably too much to ask politicians to reflect a little before they lunge for a political hot-button issue. But any conservatives so inclined should think about what they're defending. What's so conservative about the Pledge?

Very little, as it turns out. From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist pushed out of his post as a Baptist minister for delivering pulpit-pounding sermons on such topics as "Jesus the Socialist." Bellamy was devoted to the ideas of his more-famous cousin Edward Bellamy, author of the 1888 utopian novel Looking Backward. Looking Backward describes the future United States as a regimented worker's paradise where everyone has equal incomes, and men are drafted into the country's "industrial army" at the age of 21, serving in the jobs assigned them by the state. Bellamy's novel was extremely popular, selling more copies than other any 19th century American novel except Uncle Tom's Cabin. Bellamy's book inspired a movement of "Nationalist Clubs," whose members campaigned for a government takeover of the economy. A few years before he wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy became a founding member of Boston's first Nationalist Club.

After leaving the pulpit, Francis Bellamy decided to advance his authoritarian ideas through the public schools. Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance for Youth's Companion, a popular children's magazine. With the aid of the National Education Association, Bellamy and the editors of Youth's Companion got the Pledge adopted as part of the National Public School Celebration on Columbus Day 1892.

Bellamy's recommended ritual for honoring the flag had students all but goosestepping their way through the Pledge: "At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the Flag the military salute--right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it... At the words, 'to my Flag,' the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, towards the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation; whereupon all hands immediately drop to the side." After the rise of Nazism, this form of salute was thought to be in poor taste, to say the least, and replaced with today's hand-on-heart gesture."


MAD MAX
June 17, 2007 | MAD MAX
Here's a good article on the pledge and its history:

http://ffrf.org/fttoday/1999/May99/lynn.html

And I'm not entirely sure about this article, but the pics are great -- American schoolchildren doing the "Bellamy salute," which looks like the Hitler salute:

http://www.crotonblog.com/archives/001992print.html
June 17, 2007 | MAD MAX
leftwing, I hadn't heard that about Tammy. Got any, um, details?

MAD MAX
June 17, 2007 | MAD MAX


http://www.nhinsider.com/tammy-simmons/i-pledge-allegiance-to-the-flag.html






Needless to say I had forgotten the origin of the pledge and the rather Nazi-like allegiance it was designed to induce into the population. Kinda smears the lines of what is conservative about flag worship when you look at the historical context. This country was founded on hypocrisy and I have a feeling it won't stop any time soon!

... and what's up with the backwards flag and stupid right-wingers that think they are being patriotic, but are actually dissing the flag?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just an FYI: Petraeus is wearing the flag patch correctly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, that is the point!!
Correctly is ruffling the feathers of many - I could give a crap personally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I was always told "stars near the heart."
Wearing it the other way around would have the stars pointing to your ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The stars are "pointing" at something?
Huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The field with the stars is supposed to be closer to the heart.
That's what determines the way the flag is pointing. In this case, towards the heart of the person wearing it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Flags "flow with the wind" on the sides of United Airlines' jets...
I just noticed this last week and thought of the "backward" flags flap at the time. Sounds like much ado over nothing, to me. If they were "real" flags flying, that's exactly the way they'd appear, for sure.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yep, though it looks strange on someones shoulder
Would you have it "backwards" on your front door?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC