"Its only thirty bux"

[Stinky The Clown]

I heard this said by some yakking head this morning. I was only half paying attention, so I don't know who it was.

"Its only thirty bux." Referring to the savings from any gas tax holiday.

For the record, I think the gas tax holiday proposal is pure pandering and hurtful to the economy. I am opposed to it.

But the language of those who agree with me is ..... well ...... to use a phrase in common use these days ....... elitist.

Thirty bux, to many people, is real money. Important money. Precious money. REAL money. Money that, if one has it, is important to them. Money that, if one lacks it, is significant to them.

"Its only thirty bux."

Anyone who phrases it that way IS out of touch with America. And SURELY sounds like an elitist.

ON EDIT

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT LANGUAGE, NOT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE DEBATE ABOUT THIS "GAS TAX HOLIDAY" CRAP.

[jakem]

1. thats BS.

it doesnt take an elitist to know that $30 is meaningless when it comes to gas cost over a summer.

stop trying to justify her pandering crap.

[leftofcool]

5. You are assuming that 30 bux is all that will be saved by everyone?

[jakem]

8. i was responding to the OP. but

$30 would be about a tank a week for the summer-

(.18 x 14 gallons x 12 weeks)


seems quite possible as a working average- not for all of course.

[leftofcool]

11. Not even close for most poor working class families read post 5

And even at 30 bucks, that is a little bit extra for baby formula for a new baby or a couple of packs of diapers or just milk and bread for 3 months. Milk and bread is the evening meal for many poor country people.

[deadmessengers]

18. People who drive wasteful vehicles will save more, of course! n/t

[leftofcool]

21. Yes and many can not afford to purchase new cars that use

less gas. Most poor people do not drive SUV's but they do drive older cars that use a lot ot gas.

[deadmessengers]

25. My point stands. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Did you miss the third line of the OP or are you a speed reader who flew over that bump?

Make up your own story line, the OP notwithstanding.

But recognize it removes all credibility from anything else you say.

[jakem]

10. yes, missed the OPs personal take (sorry OP!)

but the point is still valid, if misdirected.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Color me dense ......

Are you for or against the tax holiday?

[jakem]

16. sorry, my 'thats BS' was in response to $30 being a useful policy shift.

i think we agree...

[MADem]

2. Milk instead of water for the cereal.

This is a symbolic issue, more than a real one, because the measure likely won't pass. But it does point out a real divide in the country, and a lack of attention or respect for the needs of those who are struggling to get by.

Thirty bucks is thirty bucks. Some people do, not to beat the latte dead horse, spend that much a week on coffee.

[annabanana]

3. If straits are that strait...

no one is going to get squat from the "holiday", no matter what. If the $30 (over the course of the whole summer) is that insurmountable, how is someone going to find the OTHER money to fill up even a couple of times?

1 tank = 15 gallons @ $4.00 = $60.00

savings per fill up @ .18 per gallon = $2.70

how can anyone cover the other $57.30 . .?

[leftofcool]

4. Our foster daughter whose husband was killed in Iraq

in 2003 would save almost 102.00 for the summer. That is a whole month's worth of groceries for her. She gets 750.00 a month as a war widow with a little girl, works making 6.00 bucks an hour and has to travel 107 miles a day to get to the low paying job in an old pickup because that is all she has. She can't afford day care so her little girl goes with her. She has no family living, just us She can't afford a computer or cable, or any of the things we like to take for granted. She doesn't get food stamps because she makes "too much money." according to the government or housing help either. The government turns their backs on the war widows and their babies, won't give them help, and the "friendly economists" think a little gas relief is bad for the US. I don't know what plant these pricks have been living on but there are thousands just like her.

[HousePainter]

24. Once upon a Gas Tax Holiday

First of all the gas tax holiday won't happen.
It isn't something that Hillary Clinton and John McCain can wave their magic wands at and make come true.
They know it and anyone who looks at it with their eyes open does too.
It would never get through Congress or past the President and certainly not before this summer is long gone.
So it is a "fairy tale" to use a phrase that Bill Clinton likes to throw around.
But worse yet it is a fairy tale that is preying on the pain and suffering of working class people for the sole purpose of getting into office, and if you look at the records of these two (McCain and Clinton) nothing will change for the better for those same working class people if they do get elected. Ask upstate NYers how many of those 300,000 promised jobs Senator Clinton ever delivered on.

The savings of even $30 is predicated on that tax being suspended (no chance)
The oil companies not bumping their prices up in the event of that tax being suspended (little chance).

The downside :

massive loss of revenue that fuels highway infrastructure programs leading to job losses (100%chance)

(Sorry Hillary the windfall profit tax you already have said you would spend on alternative energy research can't be spent twice to cover the revenue shortfall, nor is there a windfall profit tax - that also would have a hard time getting past Pres. Bush or Congress and certainly not before summer is long gone).

And they all lived happily ever after (that is the Clintons and the McCains with their $100 million plus fortunes)

[flor de jasmim]

6. Can your vote be bought for 30 pieces of silver?

[leftofcool]

7. Read post #5

[Wiley50]

12. 30 bux does not make a rodeo

Now, doesn't that sound less elitist?

[coriolis]

13. Nonsense. It's not elitist, it's realist.

:eyes:

[Johonny]

47. I'm with you

I guess reality has an elitist bias?

[Solly Mack]

14. You're right, of course

In the long run, it is only 30 bucks and 30 bucks is fairly nothing in terms of an actual solution to problem that won't go away with a few coins tossed out to the peasants as the carriage rolls by....

Still...when 30 bucks will feed your family or you need 30 more bucks to keep a roof over your head, 30 bucks can be the difference that makes a difference in your life at that moment...and when you're looking to survive, 30 bucks can seem like 300...if you don't have it and have no way of getting it, but you still need it to survive another day.

It's a shame - and I'd call it criminal - that people are reduced to being grateful for crumbs and that government acts as if they are doing people a favor - that they are helping people.

Energy companies are getting the whole cake, for example. Government is eager to give them that whole cake too. But to shut the people up...to keep them quiet another day, so gas companies can enjoy their cake in peace, the people get crumbs...

30 bucks is real money and it is a big deal....and the shame lies in the fact that 30 bucks is a big deal.

[jakem]

17. by that rational- bush and his rebate is a fucking savior.

[Solly Mack]

20. Then you missed my point

Because the same point applies to Bush and his rebate check.

It was also crumbs....nothing but crumbs.

But to a person who needed that money - who needed those crumbs - and I mean needed it to survive , it was breathing room for another day.

Those rebates didn't solve any of the real problems and it didn't address that those problems would still be there after the money was spent on things people needed - and I mean like food, shelter, clothing.

[Night_Nurse]

28. "and the shame lies in the fact that 30 bucks is a big deal." Amen. nt

[YankmeCrankme]

38. I disagree.

Unless I'm mistaken, we aren't going to be getting $30 checks to spend. It's a slight decrease in fuel costs. That ends up as a couple dollars a week for the average person. You won't even notice it. It will be quickly absorbed in any other purchases you make during the week. Two more dollars to spend on groceries won't even register as savings, in my opinion.

Hell, gas prices were 18 cents lower just a few weeks ago. I don't remember people saying how great that was, what a boost it was paying $3.50 a gallon. The worse part is the loss of infrastruture money for roads. We already shortchange the nation's infrastructure funding and this will make it worse.

[Solly Mack]

43. I know it's not a 30 dollar check to spend.

That's just the number presented in the OP (from the news). A number that represents a (speculative) cost savings (total) - and not a lump sum handed out.

And I agree...it's nothing. That it is nothing was one of the points of my post. The word - crumbs - might have been the give-away. Crumbs are nothing compared to the whole cake.

But the OP is dealing with the language used by someone on the news ...language that was dismissive of 30 bucks. Another point I made was that to a lot of people 30 bucks is real money and 30 bucks can make a difference.

Nothing - but absolutely nothing - in my post - suggest or implies - that I support the gas tax holiday or think it's a good idea.

[maddiejoan]

19. To many family's

$30 extra bucks means that they can have a real family BBQ on July 4th this year, or a young couple can go see a movie and have some McDonald's some night this summer.

Otherwise it's tunafish or bologna sandwiches in front of the VCR again.

[leftofcool]

23. or baby formula, or bread and milk

[maddiejoan]

26. indeed

I'm on a fixed budget myself --even as a single woman, $30 bucks extra coming from someplace ANYPLACE would mean I could actually head down to payless and buy 2 new pairs of shoes for myself, or head to a Thrift shop and buy some "new" clothes.

Not that I'm able to afford a car --much less gasoline. So this doesn't really effect me personally --but I live in a world where 30 bucks is a lot of money.

[lpbk2713]

22. Bread and circuses.

BushCo has us reliving the days of the Roman Emperors.

Welcome to the Coliseum.

[Bill McBlueState]

27. It's more helpful to think of it as a percentage

The actual amount saved varies depending on how much gas you use. But no matter what, the federal gas tax ($0.18/gallon) is about 5% of the cost of gas (currently an average of $3.62/gallon).

No matter how much gas you buy, 5% is a pretty small fraction of what you're spending on it. Many of us will take whatever relief we can get from high prices, but nobody's going to enjoy a better standard of living with a 5% reduction in the cost of a single item.

[Night_Nurse]

29. Touched a nerve..

According to my calculations, the gas tax "holiday" would save me $23.76 over 12 weeks.

That works out to $1.98 a week.

Or, .28 cents per day.

I am a single working mom, just getting by and hardly an elitist - and I am insulted by the crumbs that working folk like me are expected to grovel and be thankful for.

(Queen Hillary, you want that I should kiss your ring? Sorry, but you can kiss my... nevermind.)

It's about context - not about being an elitist, or being "ungrateful". It was a brilliant political stunt by McCain and the Repugs: They knew that the MSM zombies would lap it up - "Oooo gas-tax holiday! Yay! Go McCain!" - thus causing a divide between people related to money (the classic "class-warfare" card), and it worked. But not in their wildest wet dreams did the Repugs imagine one of the Democratic candidates jumping on the bandwagon with McCain, causing further strife within the Democratic party itself. Look at some of us here, calling each other "elitists" over $30! It IS just $30 lousy dollars, and again, I am a single working mother of two young children, nowhere near wealthy, and while $30 does matter to me - it doesn't make a damn difference to the big picture, or my financial bottom-line. If the TRUE elitists want to impress me, save me money by coming up with a healthcare plan where I can afford the copays for office visits and medications; save me money by permanently and forever closing the money-sucking drain that is Iraq; help that soldier's widow and his children not with $30, but with free quality healthcare, and give that soldier's children automatic college scholarships (their FATHER just DIED for YOUR war, assholes, so he's not going to be around to pay for college); that widow shouldn't have to be "thankful" because she can buy some groceries for just ONE month, because of John McCain and his future VP Hillary's "largesse". Do you all see what I'm saying??? I am not asking for a gov't handout, but if the gov't is going to "help" me and others like me, then come up with some long-term solutions that will make a long-term and meaningful difference!

(ok.. sorry 'bout the rant, but the more I think about this matter, the more hella-pissed I am getting...)

Back to my numbers:

.28 cents won't pay for a call from a payphone, or a postage stamp.
$1.98 won't buy a gallon of milk, or one hot school lunch for one child ($2.50). I have two children, and no, we don't qualify for the free-lunch program.
$23.76 won't fill even my tiny little Toyota's tank - not even once.

Meanwhile, that .28 cents per day that I'm "saving" will cause the already crumbling roads in Michigan to crumble further due to lack of "road funding" (though the US can "rebuild Iraq"), and I'll probably wind up spending far more than $23.76 to fix a tire on my car after meeting with a pothole in the pavement.

That's what I'm talking about. Not elitist - f*cking realist.


(edited for typo/clarity)

[renate]

31. thank you--very well put

Of course $30 is a lot of money to far too many people. But that we're supposed to be grateful... that any politician would think that our allegiance and votes could be bought for 28 cents a day (and only a temporary savings of 28 cents a day, at that)... is either ingenuous at best or taking advantage of people when they're down, at worst.

:eyes:

[Night_Nurse]

32. my point exactly...

thank you for your comment.

I feel terrible when I hear of a struggling soldier's widow with children forgotten by the very people who took her husband away. I mean no disdain towards that mother when I say "a lousy $30" - my disdain is directed to those who truly believe that her life is going to be made "better" because she's going to save a few bucks while driving over 100 miles to her job, WITH her child in the car (because the gov't cannot come up with helpful, realistic, and long-term solutions like daycare assistance for working moms). When her one month's worth of groceries are gone, her life and the lives of her children will remain unchanged (Oh, ok - they didn't starve to death, that's positive! Thanks Mr. McCain!), and she will continue to struggle on in her day-to-day existence, at the mercy of her minimum-wage job(and forget about going to college)with no end in sight.

What a sad state of affairs.

[abq e streeter]

88. Just what I was going to say, but you put it so much more succinctly---

groveling in thanks for the crumbs-----just sickening isn't it

[eShirl]

30. $30 for the entire summer is $10 per month, or less than $2.50 a week

[Javaman]

33. Nice font. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

37. Now why did you feel the need to post that?

n/t

[Javaman]

41. because I could. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

42. Cute

As I suspected, just because 'you could'.

Some people's kids .............

[Javaman]

49. I'm rubber, you're glue...nt

[Stinky The Clown]

50. The devolution continues.

How old will you be in your next post? Three? How soon till you resort to babbling? Dontcha wish I'd give you the last word?

Are you related to this guy? Is that you in the split screen shot?

[Javaman]

51. I know you are, but what am I? nt

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Have another cuppa

You'll feel better.

[Javaman]

55. Wax on, wax off. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

57. Wax on, wax off. nt

I can keep going, too.

Just repeat your inanities until next week. Or whenever you feel you've spent your wad.

I'm here all week. Try the veal.

[Javaman]

59. No matter where you go, there you are. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

61. No matter where you go, there you are. nt

n/t <--- you forgot the slash

[Javaman]

62. / nt

[Stinky The Clown]

64. /nt

Your move

[Javaman]

65. - nt

[Stinky The Clown]

66. +nt

You're easily amused.

I bet you were a good baby, sucking on the nipple quietly and endlessly.

[uppityperson]

67. kicking to mark to read later as I haven't time to give it the depth of thought it deserves./nt\

[Stinky The Clown]

68. Hahahahahahahaha

[Javaman]

71. Nothing is capable of being well set to music that is not nonsense. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

73. If people don't sit at your feet, go out and stand where they're sitting

As you've done with your initial reply to my thread.

[Javaman]

74. Why stand when you can sit? why sit when you can lay down? nt

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Some choose not to sit lest they sit on their best face.

[Javaman]

76. whoopsie!! nt

[Javaman]

77. nt

[Javaman]

78. you enjoy posting to yourself? :) nt

I think we hit the thread limit wall. :)

That was fun!

Peace.

[Stinky The Clown]

79. Actually, I was posting to your inanities.

Just to see how far this can go.

As above, I'm here all week.

Try the chicken.

[Javaman]

80. And I was posting to see how far we could string this out.

you seemed to enjoy playing so I kept going.

I still like the font, btw.

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Oh, I'm sure you do

There was no second agenda in making your initial comment, I'm certain.

[Javaman]

82. actually, there wasn't. I honestly liked the font. :) nt

[Stinky The Clown]

84. Hahahaha

[Javaman]

86. No really, How do you make it that large?

I don't know how to do that.

[Stinky The Clown]

87. Its right there, every time you post

Go ahead, try it when you reply this time.

Give a man a fish and feed him a meal. Teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life.

[vickitulsa]

34. The other day, I heard someone say, "It's only five hundred bucks."

I didn't know this person, but he was staying temporarily (as most do) in the RV park in which I have lived for five years. I don't even know what he was talking about ... what the $500 was FOR. I simply overheard him in the park office.

But you say this OP is about language, not the "gas holiday tax relief plan" or whatever it is the morans who had this "brilliant" idea call it.

So my point is relevant. And my point is ...??

That you can surely tell a LOT about people by the language they use -- in this case, in talking about the cost of something. They use terms (and tones of voice and body language too) which illustrate what their reality is. We all do, actually, when you think about it.

This guy (I'll call him "Jack") who was unconcerned about forking over $500 for whatever, drives a late model motorhome that is at least 45 feet long and is no doubt loaded jam full with special "conveniences" (I'd call 'em luxury items) such as built-in CD and DVD players (two or more) which probably flip out of sight at the touch of a button, a sun roof, garbage disposal and automatic dishwasher, among other things. And in fact most of the fancy appliances in that motorhome probably disappear from view when not in use.

I didn't get to see the interior of the motorhome that Jack owns, of course, but I "toured" a similar one recently when it was for sale, and I well remember the amazing "extras" it had -- many of which probably come standard on such high-end vehicles.

I was stunned. The thing was like a palace on wheels. And I'll bet everything on that motorhome actually works, too! Compare that with what many of us who live in this RV park LIVE in (we're NOT on vacation!), and it's easy to understand why we're parked "permanently" and never drive our old crates (or tow our rickety old trailers) anywhere at all.

We inhabit what once were "vehicles" that now are dwellings for the poor, living on one street within the park that I refer to as "Poor Man's Alley." Our units are so decrepit that it wouldn't take a tornado to turn them into kindling and bits of metal; hell, they're falling apart all on their own!

Some are rentals that the park owner charges ridiculous amounts for, but those tenants scrape together the funds to pay their rent if they possibly can because otherwise it's the street for most of them. Thirty dollars may well be the difference between keeping a roof (such as it is) over their heads or being homeless, some of them with children.

I own my unit; I bought a 1973 motorhome in 2003 when I received $2,000 as my dad's "legacy" and knew I might well have to live in it. I have no running water (line broke during our December ice storm), no flushable toilet (flusher pedal broke two years ago and it's not fixable -- I know, it's been tried), had no HOT water anyway because the heater pulls too much juice and trips the breaker when the fridge comes on), and no propane (oven leaks and that, too, is unfixable). The floor is rotting out, and four years ago I had to put two-by-fours down so I wouldn't fall through; I covered them with indoor/outdoor carpet pieces someone gave me. You can't see the boards, but you can feel them in the lumpy, uneven flooring.

I can't run the air conditioner and the microwave at the same time, also due to the inadequate electrical system in this unit AND on this one street of the park. The rest of the park has 220 and plenty of 110 and supplies plenty of juice for those huge, fancy, new motorhomes and trailers that surely demand way more of it than my unit or the shabby rentals on my street. In the hottest part of the summer, these old crates are like tin cans sitting in the sun, but I still have to turn off my AC to use the microwave (in the winter, it's the space heater). Transformers blow on this street about once every two weeks in summer, so we have NO electricity for several long hours in the hot part of the day then. These dwellings then get as hot inside as a car does when parked in the sun.

I keep the roaches and spiders at bay in my place because I HAVE TO -- a neighbor was bitten by a brown recluse spider and nearly died last year, so I fight the infestations very hard and will spend food money on the poison if I must. The owner will NOT eradicate the bugs in the rentals, so unless the renters can get it done, they have to live with the bugs.

Why am I telling you guys all this? To illustrate just how significant thirty bucks can be to some of us out here.

Has nothing to do with any "gas tax relief," though -- just the language of the haves versus the have-nots. The $500 that Jack was referring to as "only" that much money could well have been what he pays in a week of driving his motorhome, for all I know. But whatever it was for, it clearly didn't faze him to spend it.

Language is indeed very revealing. And one thing it demonstrates is just how clueless some folks are about the standard of living many of us have; and if they do know, then it reveals how little concern they have about it. If THEY can spend $500 without worrying about it, why should they care if millions of people can NOT do that, or even come up with $30 for necessities?

To their way of thinking (I guess), that's just the way it is. "The poor have always been with us," after all.

Yep, we've always been here, all right. But many of us have NOT always been poor who are poor now. A disability which puts an end to one's career can change everything overnight. So can the simple loss of a regular job for other reasons that a person cannot avoid.

A poster here on DU a couple of days ago said s/he was not pleased with the "hate-the-rich" attitude here on our board, and I wondered where in the hell s/he had encountered that! (I honestly haven't seen it.)

It's not hating the rich if you wish not to be forgotten and abandoned to the wolves if you are poor, imo.

I don't wish anything bad on those who have plenty. I just feel it's a crying shame that, in this "rich" country, some folks have to live the way we do, suffering and doing without important things and worrying ourselves sick every day over financial matters.

MY language reveals that I cannot fathom what it must be like to consider five hundred or even thirty dollars as "only" that amount. I think I remember when maybe thirty was "only," but that was years ago. Before I became disabled and had to stop working. "Before," period. I never had a LOT, but I never figured I would be in the circumstances I find myself in now. When you can no longer work and support yourself -- and for many, support their families, then everything changes. EVERYTHING.

I wish the many who are just one paycheck away from such dire circumstances understood how quickly that can happen, because it CAN affect THEM at some point. If people don't know how bad it can be for them when they must depend on the government programs which are supposed to provide a "safety net" for the poor and meet their essential needs, they will never raise the ruckus it would take to fix our very broken System ... until it's too late for them.

Once you're in this situation, you become "persona non grata" to most others and you lose whatever voice you had. We poor folks are expected to "deal with it" -- our lot in life, as it were -- and be silent, not bothering everyone else. We are, in the real world I inhabit, expected to be as invisible as possible. Many people don't like us reminding them we exist.

Why do we think communities periodically make sweeps of "tent cities" or whatever else passes for dwelling places to many of the homeless, flushing them out of locations where the rest of the population has to SEE them? Why does the owner of this RV park and his staff treat us who live on Poor Man's Alley like we're lepers and delay or refuse to make repairs on his rentals? Why are they trying to persuade us to move to another park this wealthy man owns, which is in a worse part of town and is a dangerous place to live, especially for the disabled and others who are especially vulnerable?

Why do we think a great many homeless people end up inhabiting our over-crowded prison system? Why are the mentally ill now in prison, ones who were put out on the street when Raygun shut down most shelters and clinics that provided some of their needs, including a cot, a blanket, something to eat daily, and a roof over their heads?

Hey, those prisons, now being privatized at an alarming rate to the financial benefit of some -- they're GREAT places to HIDE the people our general population out here doesn't want to see or think about! Great idea, Saint Ronnie!

Language. Yes, it says a lot, to make a bad pun.


Too bad lots of folks don't listen, or can't hear. Or won't.


Oh, and I'm fortunate enough to have a car, too, unlike some of my neighbors on this street to whom I offer a ride when I go to Walmart. I put only 50 to 100 miles per MONTH on my 10-year-old vehicle, but even so, with the price of gas going so high these days, I have to cut back on that. Let's see: food, medicine, or the gas to go get my food and medicine? Something has to go!

(A friend pays for my ISP, or I wouldn't be able to "rant" here for folks to read -- or ignore. Felt I should explain that, or else some folks would "assume" a non-reality. That happens a LOT.)

[Stinky The Clown]

36. You seem to be the only one who got the point of the OP.

Even with the large font to explain the point.

Which some just ridiculed as their ONLY response.

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. This deserves its own OP. Thanks. n/t

[alarimer]

35. The oil companies will raise prices to compensate and pocket the difference.

Even if they removed all gas taxes, what is to stop the oil companies from pocketing the difference as pure profit? Who is going to make them pass along the savings? No one. For once I completely agree with Obama on this. It's a stupid idea that won't really save anybody anything.

[elizfeelinggreat]

46. Very Important Fact !

Absolutely true and their history proves it.

[orleans]

39. gas tax--IT'S A HOLIDAY

watch it now!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zy9Urljjzgw&feature=related

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5825866

[semillama]

40. $30=Eternal Salvation

Or Triple Your Money Back!

http://www.subgenius.com/scatalog/membership.htm

[elizfeelinggreat]

44. I think I'm with the elitists !!!

because your post only brings home the fact that the person who said that, who said

"IT'S ONLY THIRTY BUX"

realizes that it isn't SIGNIFICANT to the MAJORITY of people who will get $30 in savings this summer.

And you're buying into their framing, IMO. And yes, I read your third line so that makes it even harder to believe you have people fighting over the LANGUAGE!!!

Well, here's my take: To me and to the majority of people who will benefit, it's ONLY THIRTY BUX.

Like annabanana posted above the cost of gas itself is prohibitive. That tax savings isn't $30 to every person and that's the way you've framed it with your post about language. You want to make this about money? Take the gas tax holiday BS out of it.

Did you not do this because the elitists might realize that it's taking money away from the government? The source of ASSISTANCE to people who desperately need $30 this summer - next summer the fact that I saved thirty bux might mean they get less ASSISTANCE because the tax revenue was raided. (Oh, and you may call me an elitist for this but yes I also realize that while they don't equate military spending/corporate welfare with cutting BENEFITS to people who need ASSISTANCE they won't hesitate to say that the gas tax holiday means less cash available in the government coffers for people who desperately need $30 or some ASSISTANCE. I'd rather give them my thirty bux!)

The people on this thread who point out that $30 means a lot to them deserve much more than $30, they deserve ASSISTANCE from their government and fellow citizens.

Oh, and one more language thought! Let's face the facts: Republicans will hound and hem and haw to get a measly "thirty bux" in tax savings for their wealthy constituencies. But not for our constituency. I'd like to think Democrats will do better, Democrats should FIGHT for ASSISTANCE for needy people.

So let's forget the bux and go for real assistance.

It's the framing, the language, and I think that although you're well intentioned you're on the wrong side on this one.



(My capitals are only to emphasize the language)

[Ronnie]

45. If you are counting quarters,

this might sound pretty good. I also am stunned at the attitude of people who, I'm guessing, wouldn't reach down to pick one up.

[elizfeelinggreat]

48. And if you're guessing

that we know that when we bend down to pick up that metaphorical quarter at the gas pump Lee Raymond's successor would step on our fingers and crush them so that we couldn't retrieve it --- then you're right on target.

(please see post #35)

And wouldn't we all be happier if a tax increase on windfall profits for gas companies or speculators were proposed? We'd all line up behind that one, wouldn't we? I wonder why that wasn't proposed?

[Sparkly]

53. Tax increase on windfall profits...

That's the plan, actually.

But you're still missing the point, which is about the words "it's only thirty bucks" and how those words can be received.

[elizfeelinggreat]

56. I'm not missing the point at all

[earth mom]

54. When you're living paycheck to paycheck, 30 bucks is a HUGE deal.

Btw-Why don't people on DU get it that we're in a class war in this country?! :banghead:

p.s. The only candidate that would fight for the working class and poor was Edwards and the rich bastards got rid of him as fast as they could.

[elizfeelinggreat]

58. That's why this "thirty bux" business is a con

Truly, do you think you can just give them $30? Let's fight the class war with something other than poor framing engineered to put down those in need.

They need/deserve the $30 and perhaps they cannot afford gasoline.


(Edwards was my hero, I think he would have seen through this ruse)

[dorkulon]

60. I am poor as hell and even I think 30 BUCKS isn't worth a squirt of piss. /nt

[newportdadde]

63. Actually it would be zero bucks. Consumers use to paying 18 cents higher, tax gone, raise 18 cents.

Then of course the meme would be.. yeah but it would only be 18 cents higher if the tax was still there!!!

The whole thing is rubbish and nobody would end up saving anything even 30 bucks.

[ecstatic]

69. I agree. Instead, the point to be emphasized is that consumers

would not see a dime of that $30.

[Indenturedebtor]

85. Indeed and truly the people who "saved" the most

If anyone saved shit would be the people with huge gas guzzling v8 suvs and trucks that they don't really need.

Want to make a difference? Subsidize the purchase of small cars... give people a down payment or something. That would drive down the cost of gas AND help individual consumers. Just a thought :shrug:

We don't need less tax we need more tax where it's barely hitting right now... the rich.

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. It isn't just the language, it's the frame

fuel taxes add to the impact of inflating fuel prices throughout our economy. It isn't "just thirty bucks".

We're perilously close to staghyperinflation.

[Iggo]

83. So I'm elitist because I'm not dirt poor?

:hide: