Gas

[Stinky The Clown]

Random thoughts .......

I heard a discussion on the radio today between some oil analyst and the newserperson. They were very cavalierly talking about SIX DOLLAR GAS.

Gas today is $3.87 here.

Has any commodity ever risen as fast as gas?

Do you think the price will ever go down?

Why are people not ANGRY about this? How much shit can the citizenry eat? I am amazed at their capacity for a shit diet.

It is literally a few cents a day .... every fucking day. Relentless. It really does have to end somewhere. Where is somewhere?

Do these people who get on the radio and teevee and give advice to save a few pennies on fuel know how silly they sound? Add some air to your tires and save a tenth of a mile per gallon. Why is no one suggesting we go lynch the fucking oil company CEOs, the speculators, and the fuckwad in charge who let the oil companies and the CEOs and the speculators DO THIS TO US?

Why weren't we looking for alternative fuel sources and alternative modes of transportation DECADES ago?

Today is National Train Day. How much you wanna bet Congress continues to pull funding from AMTRAK?

We are really fucked. You know that, right?

[livetohike]

1. If wages went up as fast as the gas price, there would be

lots of millionaires. At what price (I can't think of the Economic term anymore)will people say, "That's enough!" ?

There was a poll in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette regarding the gas price. Check this out. 30% of respondents said it had to go over $5.00/gallon before they would "make some changes". Unreal. We're retired and the gas price is high enough now.

http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/polls/Default.asp?pollID=2502

What gasoline price point will cause you to make major changes -- different vehicle, closer job, mass transit, vacation near home?
Category: Business
Voting began on 5/4/2008
Voting ends on 5/7/2008

A.$3.80 - 727 (32%)
B.$4.00 - 607 (27%)
C.$4.25 - 75 (3%)
D.$4.50 - 187 (8%)
E.$4.75 - 27 (1%)
F.$5.00 - 657 (29%)

[undergroundpanther]

2. out here

people are still driving SUV's and I see hummers.
Class warfare on the transportation front.We cannot move about freely the car industry and the mad zoning boards and cul de sack town planners took that away from us..by building EVERYTHING around the CAR.

Do you think there will ever be a decent bus system in sprawl-land? NO.
Because who drives VS who walks to places out here is how you can tell who's in what CLASS.Drives reinforce that all the time out here. Soon there will be a flight to cities,those who can't afford it will be abandoned ..There was a push to move section 8 residents to the suburbs,
In the end, nearly 25,000 African Americans in public housing were given a chance to live in largely white suburbs. The program reached its goal and was ended in 1998.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_5_38/ai_n16346619

An oppurtunity or a TRAP???


I don't know how many poor people got relocated out here,I do know the tech boom and well paying jobs that have since dried up enabled people that otherwise could not do it to move to"better" locations now they are stranded in cul de sacs ,can't afford a long commute and work is scarce.
The poor who wound up out here chasing a 'better life' will be stranded out here,soon as the car costs too much,there's no bus system or one that is not reliable..or connects to anything like a city,out here.I Guess it makes it easier for a police state to round up isolated poor people stuck in the sprawl who get desperate than face a well connected mob of poor folks fighting for thier rights in a city.
http://www.nhi.org/online/issues/79/novacancy.html

[undergroundpanther]

3. dupe

[Elspeth]

4. "Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation" (Article link below)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8878

‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’

By F. William Engdahl

Global Research, May 2, 2008

The price of crude oil today is not made according to any traditional relation of supply to demand. It’s controlled by an elaborate financial market system as well as by the four major Anglo-American oil companies. As much as 60% of today’s crude oil price is pure speculation driven by large trader banks and hedge funds. It has nothing to do with the convenient myths of Peak Oil. It has to do with control of oil and its price. How?

First, the crucial role of the international oil exchanges in London and New York is crucial to the game. Nymex in New York and the ICE Futures in London today control global benchmark oil prices which in turn set most of the freely traded oil cargo. They do so via oil futures contracts on two grades of crude oil—West Texas Intermediate and North Sea Brent.

A third rather new oil exchange, the Dubai Mercantile Exchange (DME), trading Dubai crude, is more or less a daughter of Nymex, with Nymex President, James Newsome, sitting on the board of DME and most key personnel British or American citizens.

Brent is used in spot and long-term contracts to value as much of crude oil produced in global oil markets each day. The Brent price is published by a private oil industry publication, Platt’s. Major oil producers including Russia and Nigeria use Brent as a benchmark for pricing the crude they produce. Brent is a key crude blend for the European market and, to some extent, for Asia.

WTI has historically been more of a US crude oil basket. Not only is it used as the basis for US-traded oil futures, but it's also a key benchmark for US production....

[bluebellbaby]

5. I thought a couple of years ago they did pull most of Amtracks funding

or tried to...

you know I just posted an article just about this subject and the 10 Fossil Fools in congress...there was a link from mother jones...here's the link to mother jones article...scary stuff...were are getting it from all sides...we will be a third world nation before the decade is through...

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/05/fossil-fools.html

[rdenney]

27. AMTRAK is a joke as it is. 5 days to cross the country from coast to coast?

And thats if there are NO hangups. In the 21st Century, to boot?

Yes, we owe a great "thanks" to the big corporations who tore up all the tracks we had back in the first half of the twentieth century, when we had REAL street cars and REAL passenger trains, instead of this car-centered mess we are stuck with now.

Thanks to "BIG OIL": Mobile Oil, Chevron/Standard Oil, Texaco, Gulf, Shell, Union, Amoco, ect., and all the "BIG FOUR" US car makers: Ford, American Motors, General Motors and Chrysler (and to think we bailed the last one out of bankruptcy) for nothing, you money grubbing buzzards! :puke:

(And thats not even going into the tire and battery manufacturer's, as well as the rest of the businesses centered around the automobile.) :nopity:

[PBS Poll-435]

36. What or Who the hell is American Motors?

Do they still sell the Gremlin?

[lojasmo]

41. It takes four days to drive @ 12h/day.

Five days by train is not bad. You need to consider that people who DO NOT LIVE ON THE COAST also have to get on.

[Wednesdays]

6. "I am amazed at their capacity for a shit diet."

I dunno about your area, but around where I live, the attitude of a lot of people is, "Whew. Imagine how much WORSE things would be if LIBERALS were in charge!"

:eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

9. That's aprt of the credo of the State of Dumbfuckistan

Dumbfukistan is not a place but a state of mind. They're embedded everywhere. Here where I am and there, where you are and every place in between.

[DJ13]

7. Look around you next time you get gas

Everyone is putting their gas on credit cards, never expecting to pay them off.

The next credit crisis is expected to be from defaulting credit card customers.

[lonestarnot]

15. Is that it?

[BigDaddy44]

8. How much do you think a gallon of gas should cost?

I'm curious.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I'm sure you'll tell me ......

.... I know that you tend to butt into lots of threads with that chip on your shoulder held out proudly.

I ain't playin' tonight. Go annoy someone else.

[BigDaddy44]

11. I have no chip

I just asked a question. I'm just wondering how much a gallon of gas should cost. $1.00? $2.00? $2.50?

This is the "General Discussion" board. Lets discuss it.........

[psquare]

12. It really wouldn't matter in a world in which every vehicle got 50mpg+,

every city has working efficient mass transit, there were nuclear, wind and solar power plants either in use, being built or in design - gee, not a whole lot different than what you see in Europe.

[poppysgal]

13. My question is

in what other industry, retail market or anywhere else for that matter do the prices raise several times a day? The local gas stations are raising the prices here two or three times a day, I know that they are not buying the gas that often. Also, I have noticed that when the price of crude rises so do the prices but when they drop the prices do not drop. Isn't this price gouging?:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

14. And the stamp goes up on Monday.

Why in the fuck are people taking this?

[poppysgal]

16. What is

Monday going to bring? Crude went to $125 a barrel on Friday. This is going south pretty quickly.:scared:

[lonestarnot]

17. We are very fucking fucked.

[poppysgal]

18. and we

can't even enjoy a good smoke afterwards...(not that I smoke).:smoke:

[lonestarnot]

19. Snort!

:smoke:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

20. Sucks in that the stamp price keeps going up and

the Postmaster's and Post Carriers probably haven't got a raise :mad: for a long time.

[lonestarnot]

21. Contract dictates that. APWU and Letter Carriers Union two of the last unions standing.

Postmasters make pretty good money.

[gordianot]

25. If there were mass protests you would hear very little from MSM.

[rdenney]

28. Postage is still cheap. And the postman will pickup your mail for free.

So no trip to the post office in your car, wasting more gas.

The post office is one of the best deals we have right now compared to many things we are paying dearly for, IMO.

[hootinholler]

22. Soemone said we like shit sandwiches.

I say hell no! the public don't like bread!

-Hoot

[Towlie]

23. Do I think the price will ever go down?

Of course it will go down! It goes down on a regular basis.

[gordianot]

24. By $6.00 a gallon gas few will care, think mass unemployment, food lines, economic collapse, etc..

It can happen here.

[rdenney]

29. And worse, it looks with each passing day, that it will. Gas was only $1.60 just a few years ago...

if "peak oil" is true, it cannot and will never go down. ;(

Hard times ahead, folks.

[AdHocSolver]

32. You can force the price lower by reducing demand.

"Peak oil" is an issue when demand is continually increasing faster than the supply. Reduce demand and the supply of oil has less effect on price.

Besides the waste of oil in gas-guzzling vehicles, we see the waste of oil in production of ethanol from food grain driving up food prices. Oil is used to make tires, plastics, artificial materials for clothes and shoes, container material, lubricants, chemicals, paints, etc. The throwaway society we live in probably wastes as much oil as gas-guzzling vehicles. When the oil is really used up, the cost of everything we use will skyrocket. Moreover, for many items that we use today, there will be no substitutes.

Leaving the economy to be handled by the "market place" brought us to this sorry state of affairs. It is time for the government to reregulate business, mandate fuel efficiency standards, promote mass transit, and fund alternative energy sources in a serious way. No more giving money to oil companies to come up with ethanol or hydrogen power schemes. That has proven to be pouring our tax dollars down a rat hole.

You want to stop the economic collapse that this country is headed toward. Simple. Rewrite or get rid of NAFTA, the WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, and all of the other trade and financial cartel agreements that make it profitable to offshore jobs. Bring jobs back to the U.S. and you stop piling up the huge deficits, stop the devaluation of the dollar, and refill the Treasury with income tax dollars paid by working Americans.

This is a simple recipe for turning this country around. It is not rocket science. Ignore the bovine manure spouted by the pundits, the economics "experts", the corporate executives, the right-wingers. All you have to do (not easy, admittedly) is elect enough progressives to government to implement the strategy I have outlined here.

A good place to start is by winding down the war in Iraq. As long as the U.S. occupation continues, so will the fighting. The Iraq occupation helps fuel the oil price speculation and drives up prices. Ending the war will provide immediate price relief, as well as stop the drain on the U.S. Treasury.

How can we implement a safe and successful withdrawal from Iraq? Again, the solution was evident early on. Hire Iraqis to rebuild the country's infrastructure. They built it in the first place. They know what needs to be done better than anyone. If they have jobs to support their families, if they are put in the position of working with other Iraqis to rebuild their homes and businesses, then they will stop fighting each other and start rebuilding.

All the bovine manure thrown around from all sides confuses people and makes them paralyzed with fear and confusion. We need to take back the government and reregulate the corporations. Remember: the corporations are NOT the solution to our problems, they are the CAUSE of our problems.

[rdenney]

35. I don't disagree with you on any of these factors. The landfills are full of recyclable materials..

and most Americans are a wasteful lot to begin with.

The only real doubts I have about this plan of yours is prying the governments of the world
away from the corporations in the first place, so that we can accomplish this project.

If you have a solution to that major problem, I'd like to hear it.

[gordianot]

39. Taking it back will not be easy. What has been done is done.

Hard medicine is called for, it is going to collapse on its own. George Washington was probably a prophet before his time in his desire for caution and self sufficiency. We just could not stay away from those entanglements. Sorry George you were almost right, but our business greed and wealth got the best of us.

[superkia]

26. Gas will come done once we are all living in poverty and even...

more desperate than we are now. With all of the laws and signing order as well as the so called secret laws, I have to believe something is in store for us soon enough. It seems that the gangerment knows there will be civil unrest for some reason and have changed the laws so they will be able to silence and coral anyone that causes a problem for them.

They are trying to pass a law, HR 4279 or the Prioritizing Resources and Organization for Intellectual Property Act of 2008 which was recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives, will give the government draconian powers to do just this. now that will allow them to come and take your computer if you have ever downloaded an mp3 or any other copyrighted item illegally? We cant impeach but they can waste time on this, does that makes since to anyone else? I guess if there was ever a problem and the citizens were either sharing information or pissed about upcoming events, they could probably take most peoples computers, at least they could definitely keep most younger people off the internet because I would bet most have picked up at least a song from a file sharing network. So be aware if you have children and they use these file sharing sites, your computer may be on the list.

It just amazes me that they would not only be working to pass this law but they are also going to fund a new department to police and confiscate the computers. Is this that big of a problem that they should be doing this at a time where our country is falling apart?

[undeterred]

30. Gas is a necessity- for many people to work.

So people will cut back on other things... eating out, eating at all. Businesses will fail because people will do without a haircut, new clothes, a movie, a meal out. People will stop travelling and it will hurt American tourism. The price of everything will go up to the point where people stop buying everything. It will suck the life out of us.

[Initech]

31. I'm pissed as hell about the gas prices.

I'm employed as a courier. $5.00 - $6.00 a gallon will kill my job. Shit, the oil company CEOs should be fucking lynched for this.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. In answer to your closing question... Yes. We are.

[Skittles]

34. people will rue the fact that Jimmy Carter was not taken seriously n/t

[gordianot]

40. Jimmy was right, it has come to roost. Few will admit he was right.

[earth mom]

37. I heard $7 to $10 a gallon by the end of the year.

My husband's buying a bike this week and will take the bus halfway to work and ride the bike the rest of the way.

Wish we could afford a hybrid or an electric car. :(

[MJJP21]

38. Fuel

The price of fuel is not likely to go down and stay down permanently.First of all you genuinely have more demand for it especially in China and India. That is never going to go away and will only get worse.
The price we pay for fuel in the US is still far less expensive than in Europe where I think it's averaging around $8.00 . (in liters)
I think the reason there isn't a bigger outcry on pricing is that it is spring and much of the money that was going for heat is now going to fill the car so actual out of pocket dollars is a wash compared to the winter.If the price stays up and goes higher into next winter then you will see some real hardship.
The oil companies also know that most people get a raise every year and this again gets people acclimated to paying a higher prices .
As to your question of why wasn't anyone looking for alternate fuel years ago the answer as you might expect rest with big oil and the govt. If there is no incentive their won't be any reason to do things differently. For example GM is coming out with an electric vehicle that gets around 70 miles to a charge and gets a lot of positive press. Years ago GM had the EV1 that got over a hundred miles to a charge and they scrapped it.
If anything the car companies should be the real target of your wrath along with the govt. Just because people want big cars and trucks doesn't mean they should have them. We already saw the gas shortages in the 70's and that should have been a wake up call. Right now the car companies are scrambling to put more fuel efficient vehicles on the road and don't know how. I do. Get rid of the 4WD option as most people don't need it. You get a lighter ,less expensive vehicle that ups fuel mileage by about 5mpg without retooling.The only cars I see stuck in the winter on the side of the road are 4WD or RWD. FWD vehicles seem to move along just fine.If the roads are that bad they are probably closed anyway. We got along fine for 70 some years on RWD cars so whats the problem?
Don't look to ethanol produced by corn to do much either.All you have to do is ask yourself how many forests are in a barrel of oil and you will then realize that you cannot grow your way out of dependency on oil.If and when we can use scrap vegetation , plants , wood etc will we be able to efficiently make a dent in how much oil we use.
Actually the price of gas is really higher than what is printed when you buy. 10% of the gas is ethanol which doesn't have the BTU of pure gasoline which means you need to buy more to go the same distance. Although this is small it still needs to be figured into any calculation.