"Fertilized egg is a person" initiative...

[cynatnite]

The mother of all wedge issues will likely be in the ballot box this November in the battleground state of Colorado. The antiabortion group Colorado for Equal Rights announced today that it has secured "well over" the 76,047 signatures necessary to put a controversial "personhood initiative" on this presidential ballot.

The initiative would amend the state constitution to declares a fertilized egg a "person" who enjoys "inalienable rights, equality of justice, and due process of law," carrying a host of implications not only for abortions rights but for birth control and in-vitro fertilization clinics.

If passed, the amendment would pose a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, which many antiabortion groups have hungered for since President Bush appointed conservative justices Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme Court.

Antiabortion forces rallied around Colorado, in part, because of its low signature threshold to place an amendment on the ballot. But the state, though historically conservative, has not had a history of restricting abortion access, putting the success of this proposed amendment in doubt.

Indeed, a recent poll of Coloradans found that a full 50 percent of state Republicans supported abortion rights.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/05/09/antiabortion-ballot-initiative-in-colorado.html

[Snarkoleptic]

1. One step closer to the t-shirt I spotted a couple of months ago...

[Indenturedebtor]

10. OMFG LOL

I love it! :rofl:

Here they go rolling out the Rovian "get out the vote" bullshit :(

[BlueIris]

15. Classy.

...egh.

[DRoseDARs]

25. That snarkalicious post deserves one of the coveted DUzzies.

Though, I think a gay guy wearing that shirt and it saying "father's" instead of "daughter's" would make more heads explode. :)

[Shine]

54. heh. seriously.

:thumbsup:

[orleans]

51. YUCK! n/t

[Shine]

53. OMG, that's hilarious!!!

:rofl: truly twisted. I love it. :evilgrin:

[ColbertWatcher]

2. I like the Cuban definition of citizenship...

...as soon as they set foot on American soil, they're citizens, and not before then.

[AnnieBW]

3. Will they pay taxes?

If those fertilized eggs are persons, does that mean that they'll get SSNs and have to pay taxes? Get to work, little zygotes! You have to make up your part of the National Debt!

[cynatnite]

4. Love that...

:rofl:

[and-justice-for-all]

5. Sort of...

it is a small cluster of dividing cells, that could become a person. That small cluster of cells has no awareness at all, nor does it know what it is. It is cluster of cells doing what DNA has evolved to do which would not be possible without the combination of sperm and egg. The cluster of cells will become a 'parasite' that lives off the resources provided by the host.

But all of that has nothing to do with the decision to terminate the pregnancy, that is and should be, left up to the person or persons involved. By persons I mean those that are aware of who and what they are. I see no reason to tell a women that she HAS to carry to term regardless of the consequences of how she became pregant, 10 year old girls should NOT be forced to carry a pregnacy to term. If your going to have an abortion, waiting to have a late term abortion is not acceptable, that is the only objection that I have. Unless there is some sever medical reason for it in regards to the mother or the fetus.

If clean and safe places are not provided for those who make the personnal and private decision to NOT be pregant, they will end up in unsafe and unclean pleaces that will result in losing their life. Their are several possible reasons as to why someone would want to get an abortion; who would want to raise a child in an abusive relationship? Why should people be made to have children that will only end up on the welfare system?

Religious nutters need to learn to mind their own damn families and stop putting their nose where it does not belong. Facist control freaks is all they are.

[lligrd]

6. I Think I've Got It

They want to force people who shouldn't be parents to have kids. Then they want to take them away from the "bad" parents. Then they want to bitch about having to support the kids with their taxes. Oh wait, didn't someone want to bring back orphanages not to long ago? Or were those work houses?

[ColbertWatcher]

14. I think they're bootcamps. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

17. That about sums it up...

It is part of the broader plan that the reich wing are trying to implement.

[Dogtown]

43. Newt Gingrich

was shilling privatized orphanages for babies/children of "welfare mothers", with forced relocation as an alternative to welfare checks.

Loathesome, inhuman bastard.

That was several years ago, before he became completely irrelevant.

[Iris]

52. During an era when a large number of kidnapped children in China are being put up for adoption by

foreigners, I have a feeling the orphanages will turn out to be nothing more than adoption agencies for white people who can't have children but can afford to buy one.

[Dogtown]

63. I think that pretty well describes

the current situation, with the added quantity that, like many "foster" programs, they will be magnets to perverts and those looking for laborers cheaper than immigrant adults.

[Feron]

7. Imagine...

being a subject of a criminal investigation simply because you had a miscarriage. Or the police confiscating your uterus because you were suspected of having a botched illegal abortion.

Abortion isn't their only target, contraception (especially the pill) would be banned if these fanatics get their way. These groups want to overturn Griswold in addition to Roe v. Wade.


Look at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html?ex=1302235200&en=d855d80018cd6c56&ei=5088&partner=rssuserland">El Salvador. Horrifying and sickening article that everyone should read.

And I'd like to take this moment to extend a special "Fuck You" to the Pope who recently reaffirmed the Church's anti-life position against contraception.

[defendandprotect]

11. This is nothing but patriarchy at work via organized patriarchal religion . . .

and how very long this has gone on . . . !!!

I'm with you -- a big, fat FU to Popey ---

another man living in a dress in a "nation" of only males -- and in deep denial!!

[and-justice-for-all]

18. I'll second that Fuck You to Der Furher Pope! nt

[depakid]

26. I have no doubt whatsoever that WHEN Roe and Griswold are overturned

That some several states in the south and lower midwest will place tons of restrictions on birth control, if not ban it outright.

Too bad no one would listen when I and many others worked on these issues and tried to get the word out many years ago about what Republicans were REALLY all about. Now I guess (as with so many other issues) they'll have to find out the heard way for themselves.

[Iris]

49. This will bring chills to your spine-"The Pill Kills 2008"-scheduled for the anniversary of Griswold

http://thepillkills.com/

[RainDog]

55. when?

for all the pandering, I do not think any republican sincerely wants to put this issue back at the state level. it would be a legal nightmare.

and those states that would prefer anti-female legislation might be surprised at how many ppl wouldn't work in their states for any amt. of money - I refused to consider living in the south when I had kids b/c I didn't want them to grow up around the talibornagains.

We are already looking at massive shifts as ppl concentrate in areas that are more tolerant, less religious... non-republican mindset areas, in other words. Women have economic power too.

I have always thought that the abortion issue was a pander to the r.r. - notice that when Bush had a big majority in the leg. they did NOTHING about this issue?

[Neurotica]

28. Here in VA, a Republican legislator sponsored a bill requiring the reporting

of miscarriages to the police within 24 hours. I kid you not. This was 2-3 years ago. Fortunately, this bill didn't pass and I can't remember if it got out of committee.

However, the fact remains that someone felt perfectly comfortable proposing such a thing!

It was horrifying and legislators got an earful.

[hoosier_lefty]

8. So would condoms equal conspiracy to commit murder ?

If they have some sort of disease or malformation
would they qualify for medicaid at conception.

What about the child tax credit?
Why shouldn't you get that at conception?

You can't make this kind of determination
and only have it impact abortion laws.

[BlueIris]

16. Yeah, are pregnant women/expectant fathers going to get to claim an extra dependant

if a pregnancy is in progress when they file?

You'd think the tax-the-poor-to-death Republicans would think this through before they start these ridiculous crusades...

[petronius]

40. This would mean that those Cadillac-driving welfare queens the wingers are

so scared of would get to collect additional child benefits 9 months earlier...

[and-justice-for-all]

19. I'm a Hoosier too!!!

These people go on their little 'missionaries' to tell the 3rd world that condems are useless because they are already contaminated with HIV/AIDS. They encourage abstenence only and work hard to get as many people are possible to not use controceptives or protection.

I think they are commiting crimes against humanity and should be banned from going on their expeditions of death.

[defendandprotect]

9. Anti-abortion people are generally religious whaackos who have little real understanding

of reality re childbirth/maternity ---

It is this religious need to control women and their bodies which must be overcome ---

All women --- religious and otherwise --- have had abortions at the same rate --- i.e., Catholic

women have as many abortions as any other women. THEREFORE, the church is anxious to curtail

their freedom by making abortion impossible for ALL women!!

[Skittles]

21. please say anti-choice instead of anti-abortion

anti-abortion implies there is a pro-abortion side when in reality it is pro-choice; thanks

[defendandprotect]

24. Actually, anti-reproductive freedom would be the better description . . .

and although your comment makes sense to us . . .

I don't think I've ever seen or heard the right-wing talk about their having an "anti-choice" position --

I think they and their signs generally refer to "abortion" ---

[niyad]

42. some refer to them as pro-forced birthers.

[defendandprotect]

59. That, too . . . !!!

[DeSwiss]

12. The ultimate irony....

...that I find in all this, is that the very same people (Fundies) who are now relying upon (real) science to tell them exactly what a "fertilized egg" is (I mean let's be real, they wouldn't know this w/o science, right?), are also the very same people who have denied (real) science and came up with their own version and call it "Intelligent Design."

- They cherry-pick what they want to believe from science in the same way that they cherry-pick what they want to believe from their bibles....

[Iris]

56. that is an excellent observation

so, it's "science" when it supports their beliefs! They use science the same way they use the Bible.

[Hekate]

13. So they're going to be checking .....

.... menstrual pads? To see if a conceptus was washed away by the monthly tide? Untold numbers of little cell clusters never implant themselves in the uterus, and the woman never even knows -- what then?

What of the countless women who miscarry? Are they going to bang down the bathroom doors of these grieving women?

Proposed laws like this one are hatched in brains untouched by reality, much less scientific information about women's reproductive lives.

Hekate

[and-justice-for-all]

20. According to their mental state...

I, a male, should be stoned to death for my 2 or 3x a week self satisfaction.

[Hekate]

22. Every sperm may be sacred, but punishment & scrutiny only apply to women these days

Of course if they get their ideal wet dream (ahem, so to speak) and we end up with a gen-yoo-wine theocracy, maybe stoning will return for the sin of Onanism.

Gaaah.

Hekate

[and-justice-for-all]

23. If men had to give birth, abortion would be a sacrament. nt

[Vinca]

27. They're not pro-life, they're pro-birth.

Once the egg takes a breath, it's on its own. They don't care so much about kids dying from lack of food or healthcare.

[Orsino]

29. It must be an election year.

Desperate conservatives setting out bait for the haters? Check.

[librechik]

30. Obamarado

let's hope they come to the polls to vote this stupidity down.

[dorkulon]

31. This could easily backfire on them.

At least I hope so.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Would that mean identical twins are each half a person? (nt)

[AngryOldDem]

33. Well, what about miscarriages?

If you take this to its logical conclusion -- and I use that term very loosely -- instances of miscarriages would have to be investigated to rule out any kind of foul play, or negligent behavior on the part of the woman.

I really wish these groups would focus just one-fucking-tenth of the effort they spend on initiatives like this on helping those kids already here, as well as their families who are too often stretched to their limits -- financial and otherwise.

[bunkerbuster1]

39. some nutter in Virginia introduced state legislation requiring precisely that.

Obviously it didn't pass, but it was out there:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+sum+HB1677

HB 1677 Fetal death; report by mother, penalty.
John A. Cosgrove | all patrons ... notes | add to my profiles
Summary as introduced:
Report of fetal death by mother; penalty. Provides that when a fetal death occurs without medical attendance, it shall be the woman's responsibility to report the death to the proper law-enforcement agency within 12 hours of the delivery. Violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Full text:
12/17/04 House: Prefiled & ordered printed; offered 01/12/05 051245276 (impact statement)

Status:
12/17/04 House: Prefiled & ordered printed; offered 01/12/05 051245276
12/17/04 House: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
01/12/05 House: Stricken from docket by C. J. (22-Y 0-N)

[WA98296]

34. How about Legislation making masturbation Reckless Abandonment?

[debbierlus]

35. Unbelievable.

[NC_Nurse]

36. Lots of fertilized eggs are flushed out in regular menses. These people

don't know much about it, do they?

As George Carlin once said, "that makes every woman of menstrual age a serial killer." (not an exact quote, but you the idea).

[madmom]

37. This was my first thought too, are they going to start collecting used pads or what ever

is used during menstruation? What about the women who use the little cup things,( I forget what they are called) do thy want all that sent to them for inspection?These "people" have got to get a life, pun not intended!

[Mountainman]

45. No, but you will have to hold a wake each month and bury your pads.

[newportdadde]

38. I'm sure those 76,047 are lined up to adopt unwanted children. Put your money were your mouth is.

[Mountainman]

44. No but next election season they plan to but an amendment on the ballot

saying the earth is flat.

[niyad]

41. one of the people working on this is a twit named kristi burton==home-schooled

religious whacko, who, when she was 13, was home with the flu, and heard god telling her she had to protect the sperm cells. from home schooling, she is planning on getting her law degree online.

most people who hear voices when they have flu and fever realize those are hallucinations.

years ago, an artist in SF did pieces with condoms. and, I kid you not, she was picketed by whack jobs calling her a murderer. these people are insane

[cynatnite]

46. So, if a woman has an abortion, would she be tried for murder...

if this becomes law?

[Iris]

50. that's the idea, I think.

But consider all the other ways they could control women with this - if you're pregant and do something that might be considered dangerous to the "unborn child," you could be prosecuted. If a woman is not pregnant but could be pregnant - well, it may be necessary to deny them certain types of jobs that would put amy potential person that may show up in her womb in danger.

[Sundoggy]

47. That's nothing...

...wait for the "Gleam in Daddy's Eye is a Person" initiative...

[ismnotwasm]

48. That's it

All women from Colorado, STAY AWAY FROM SPERM.

No fucking. No almost fucking. NO but-I-thought-I-was-safe exposure to traveling sperm

Shut fucking down in Colorado, ladies, shut it down.



That would give those forced birth bastards something to think about.

[Withywindle]

60. Same-gender lovin' only!

That's safe, from a pregnancy standpoint.

You'd think the fetus-huggers would be all over promoting m/m and f/f tension release. Pretty effective abortion prevention.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Amen

Keep sperm contained until needed for procreation.

[Shine]

57. Seems pretty silly to me.

I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised. :eyes:

[pleah]

58. So, if they declare a fertilized egg as a child,

does that mean banning chicken eggs is not far behind? Since the eggs you eat for breakfast are fertilized, does that mean, by their definition, that we are eating baby chickens?

This group of lunatics don't seem to realized how stupid they really are.

[Quantess]

61. Pregnant women can drive in the HOV lane, then.

:rofl:

[NYC Liberal]

62. Fine, but if they get rights they also get responsibilities

If a fetus, through complications in pregnancy, causes a woman to die, should that fetus be charged with manslaughter when it is born? After all, it is a PERSON, is it not?

And what if a pregnant woman decides that she does not want to provide "lodging" for that fetus, as a person? How will she kick it out? And if it does not leave voluntarily, should we charge it with criminal trespass, since it is a PERSON?

Can it be placed under arrest, to be detained immediately when it is born? It is a PERSON, right?