Tribal warriors don't get PTSD because they don't slaughter innocents

[undergroundpanther]

Writing about modern society's denial of humankind's powerful instinctual drive for vengeance, Jared Diamond points out that warriors in tribal societies like those in the present-day New Guinea Highlands never get post-traumatic stress disorder, and that seeking out vengeance personally, rather than relying on social institutions, has been the norm until relatively recently:

http://www.bigcynic.com/2008/05/tribal-warriors.html

http://www.unknownnews.org/080511a-Panther.html

[anonymous171]

1. Interesting...

[alfredo]

2. I will have to come back to this. It's bed time.

[ConsAreLiars]

3. True.

I once had the good fortune to talk for an afternoon with an English educated and semi-adopted Afghan, a young man who had been orphaned when bandits attacked his home. I and my companion were on the "eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" side and he was very patient and calm in explaining that doing the right thing, killing the killers, was simply his duty and moral obligation, and that he would have to live being being a bit shamed if he failed.

Not that he would spend every hour filled with hatred and seeking vengeance, only that he would always be aware of that duty and would follow through, regardless of the consequences, when possible. Willingly and knowingly doing the right thing will never cause PTSD.

(edit to add, modern wars of conquest are never just, and PTSD has little to do with the motives or beliefs of those put into them.)

[NuttyFluffers]

7. one could argue the cold, calculating notion of revenge is manifestation of PTSD...

you suffer trauma from a variety of things: justice, injustice, random acts of nature... any of them can cause trauma. morality is a supposition upon those events.

an interesting argument (and one which i'm not going to take up here, but maybe contemplate later as an ethical exercise) is that revenge itself is a manifestation of PTSD. revenge is seeking restitution through more trauma, and through many societies beyond the realm of law or justice. to choose that level of inhumanity in response to trauma can in itself be seen as irrational. and thus we can see such a world view as a severance from stability and a manifestation of their latent emotional conflicts, i.e. PTSD.

it could be a fascinating masturbatory exercise in theorizing... one day i'll get around to it. after i avenge my ancestors and bring the defilers to their knees, and all that jazz.
:evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

4. Has or has not been the norm? n/t

[Ytzak]

5. Medical definition of post traumatic stress disorder

Definition of Post-traumatic stress disorder - Medicine.net
Post-traumatic stress disorder: A common anxiety disorder that develops after exposure to a terrifying event or ordeal in which grave physical harm occurred or was threatened. Family members of victims also can develop the disorder. PTSD can occur in people of any age, including children and adolescents. More than twice as many women as men experience PTSD following exposure to trauma. Depression, alcohol or other substance abuse, or other anxiety disorders frequently co-occur with PTSD.

PTSD is caused by traumatic events, and membership in a tribal society or a social club is irrelevant. It can and will happen to anyone.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. Tribal warriors don't slaughter innocents?

That'll come as a great relief to Rwandans.

[JCMach1]

8. PTSD would obviously manifest itself in culturally relevant ways

Tribes may even have mechanisms in-place to deal with this.

[Runcible Spoon]

10. I think the wording is off a bit...

those butchering the Rwandans or any other such genocide are still deeply morally convicted, regardless of the heinous nature of their beliefs. I think the main point is they do not SEE them as innocents, they see them as irredeemably corrupted in some way and thus deserving of their cruel fates. A bunch of boys from Kansas who never really watched the news aren't really quite sure why they are shooting Iraqis, and the vague nationalist propaganda that substitutes a real personal cultural motive to kill is wearing thin.

[Spangle]

9. Not what the article says

It says they are allowed to come home and brag about killing. Which is pretty much the 'old' way all tribes handled it. EVERYONE comes from tribale.

Now days, we live in a 'clean' society, where many don't want to hear about such 'nasty' and 'dirty' stuff. Such stuff just don't happen. Aghm.. well, it does.. but people are suppose to play like it doesn't.

We are talking about a society where if a child falls and gets a bruise, we are quickly looking for someone to send to jail. In a tribal society, it would be seen as a lesson so they will not fall when older.

[AngryAmish]

11. This is a load of crap

I read Jared Diamond's Newyorker piece. It made no claims of any sort about the rate of PTSD. No studies about comparative rates. It was a case study about one conflict in New Guinea.

The author of the piece says civilized soldiers kill everyone. Another load of crap.

The rate of violence in pre-civilized people is much, much higher than people in the civilized world. Could it be that PTSD is an manifestation of the adaptation that makes us less violent and more able to live with our neighbors? It could, but that is pure surmise on my part.