Good News From Iraq!

[Dave From Canada]

Beyond the four-day cease-fire, it looks like major concessions were made. They recognize the elected government as the sole legitimate authority in Sadr City and everywhere else in Iraq, Iraqi forces will take over security in Sadr City, attacks from the there are now prohibited, and the Iraqi government now can impose the law and pursue illegal situations. Hopefully this is a step toward large-scale reductions in American troops. I think it should be.

Iraqi lawmakers, Sadrists sign four-day cease-fire

“We have signed the agreement today,” said Khalid al-Attiyah, the deputy parliamentary speaker from the main Shiite political bloc, United Iraqi Alliance.

Al-Attiyah said the cease-fire went into effect on Sunday and Iraqi forces will be allowed to enter the area as early as Wednesday and “take over the security there.”

The statement said “the government will decide on the number of Iraqi forces to be deployed in Sadr City to achieve security, in order to refrain from asking help from foreign forces,” a reference to the U.S. military.

“Any attack against residential areas, government offices and the Green Zone are prohibited from Sadr City or from another area,” the agreement said.

The cease-fire stipulates that Iraqi forces have the right to “impose the law and to pursue illegal situations.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080512/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

And


Drive in Basra by Iraqi Army Makes Gains

BASRA, Iraq — Three hundred miles south of Baghdad, the oil-saturated city of Basra has been transformed by its own surge, now seven weeks old.

In a rare success, forces loyal to Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki have largely quieted the city, to the initial surprise and growing delight of many inhabitants who only a month ago shuddered under deadly clashes between Iraqi troops and Shiite militias.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/world/middleeast/12basra.html

[jimshoes]

1. Wake me when it's

time to leave.:boring:

[Breeze54]

2. And isn't this the 120,000th cease fire there?

I wouldn't get to excited. The * regime wants endless war there as does McLame.

Never Vote for a Rethug... EVER!!! :grr:

[DCKit]

3. Iran's probably helping broker the peace just to piss off the malAdministration. n/t

[wmbrew0206]

4. This is good news

Right now Sadr's JAM is the biggest security threat in Iraq.

Sadr's strong holds have been targeted by the Iraqi forces at the direction of PM Maliki and Sadr has been forced to cut a deal each time. Initially it looked like Sadr's forces won in Basra, but now it appears they didn't. The Iraqi army controls the streets right now in Basra. It appears that the same thing is about to happen with Sadr City. Sadr has directed his JAM militias to give up their heavy weapons and allow the Iraqi Army to control Sadr City. I think there are some fringe elements who will disobey this order but most of the JAM will comply.

If this agreement stands, there is a good chance that Iraq could stabilize substantially and we could begin pulling combat units out by the end of the year.

If the news out of Iraq continues to be more good than bad, it will help McSame in the fall. He has tied himself to Petraeus and the "Surge" strategy.


Obama might have to switch from his position of "We're pulling out" to "If things on the ground continue to improve, we'll look at a longer phased withdraw."

[Breeze54]

5. Please....... nothing has changed.

05/12/08 Reuters: U.S. troops repel attacks in Baghdad slum

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1264972920080512?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=401

U.S. forces killed three gunmen who attacked their patrols in the Baghdad stronghold
of Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, the military said on Monday.


05/12/08 AP: Iraqi officials say 2 killed, 25 wounded in clashes in Sadr City

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3542178,00.html

Iraqi health officials say overnight clashes in Sadr City have killed two people and wounded 25,
including five children. They say the violence erupted in Sadr City around midnight Sunday.
They spoke on condition of anonymity...

[wmbrew0206]

7. You don't get what this agreement means...

Sadr has basically said, "Anyone who shoots at the Iraqi forces is not one of mine." This gives legitimacy to the Iraqi security forces when they go into Sadr City and no one can claim that they are targeting Sadr's supporters when security forces fight back when they are attacked. There will be no cries of outrage from Sadr about how his men are being targeted for political purposes. (That is if this agreement holds)

Like I said above, there are elements in Sadr City who are not going to abide by this agreement. Sadr does not have complete control over all of the JAM militias, some parts of it are just street gangs and thugs.

Oh, yeah, the agreement doesn't go into affect until Wednesday.

I've been to Iraq twice. I came back in Oct of '07 and still talk to friends that are over there. So I'm not basing my opinions on what I've read in the newspapers.

The bottom line is things are getting better in Iraq and if we as Democrats want to win in November, we need to acknowledge that and prepare our strategy accordingly. We need to be able to take the national security issue away from the rethugs.

[Breeze54]

9. It isn't "holding"... Did you read the two articles?

I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

[leftchick]

24. are you aware of the Mahdi Militia splinter groups

who really pay no attention to Sadr? I didn't think so. Please also note the US is still bombing the crap out of Iraqis.

You need to read some Juan Cole and the Arab press to find out what is really going on in our name. The slaughter of innocents continues by the USA!



Residents look at the coffin of a man killed by U.S. soldiers in Hurriya district southwest of Baghdad May 12, 2008. U.S. military forces said they killed three armed men during an operation on Sunday night in Baghdad's Hurriya district targeting a suspected kidnapper. Neighbours said those killed were students not linked to gangs or militias.
REUTERS/Saad Shalash (IRAQ)




Relatives of Aqil Ali, hold up his image at their home in Hurriyah, Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, May 12, 2008. Relatives claim that Ali and his brother were killed by U.S. miliitary along with a gunman who jumped onto their roof. The U.S. military said in a statement that 'coalition forces returned fire in self-defense and killed three armed criminals', in Hurriyah Sunday.
(AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed)



An Iraqi boy, at left, salvages car parts after a number of car repair shops burned overnight in Sadr City, Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, May 12, 2008. According to eyewitnesses the market caught fire from anti missile flares shot by the US helicopters. Overnight clashes in Sadr City have killed two people and wounded some 25, including five children, despite a reported cease-fire in the Iraqi capital's sprawling Shiite slum, Iraqi health officials said Monday.
(AP Photo/Karim Kadim)


let's see here.... This all happened Monday May 12, 2008. The US is still dropping bombs in a very heavily populated slum. Aren't we fucking great? :puke:



http://juancole.com/

<snip>

McClatchy reports on the precarious position of Sadr City residents whose homes are near to the Green Zone that houses the US embassy and other US offices.

How solid the ceasefire is has yet to be seen. Hadi al-Amiri, a member of parliament who is also head of the paramilitary Badr Corps, said Sunday that the Mahdi Army must disarm. (Since the Badr Army has not disarmed, this statement is the height of hypocrisy). And, PM Nuri al-Maliki maintains that the truce in Sadr City was worked out between the Iraqi parliament and the Sadrists, and that he was not part of the process.

<snip>

Sadr City residents fear a cease-fire means more violence

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/36641.html


BAGHDAD — One day after an agreement between followers of Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr and the Iraqi government to end more than six weeks of fighting, the streets in parts of the vast Shiite slum of Sadr City were deserted, amidst signs of a battle. Wires snaked out of potholes and from underneath tires - signs of past or future roadside bombs; abandoned pickup trucks, destroyed by airstrikes, littered the streets, and bullets or shrapnel scarred the houses.

Hussein Abd Sakran walked three hours, holding up a white flag, to escape southeast Sadr City, where U.S. and Iraqi forces battled Sadr's Mahdi Army militia, and took refuge inside the home of his brother-in-law, Raheem Abdul Hassan.

He arrived Saturday after most other residents had fled, in fear that the agreement that would allow Iraqi security Forces into the northeast district would bring more violence. It was a long route in order to get past the barricade the U.S. military is building to isolate the southern edge from the rest of the slum and avoid the gun battles in the southern parts of the area, he said.

<snip>

Her home was in the middle of the fight on the edge of the district where U.S. forces are holed up in abandoned buildings and the Iraqi Army has set up checkpoints, and she hadn't left it in weeks. A nearly completed wall built by the U.S. military isolates the area, and her modest dwelling is scarred by bullets and shrapnel.

When Sakran tried to buy fuel from a nearby gasoline station he never made it. A roadside bomb exploded nearby and a newly built concrete wall blocked his path. The Iraqi Army started shooting in every direction, and he returned home scared, packed up his family and used a white flag to show he meant no harm as he walked away from the southern part of the slum. There was an additional reason: Iraqi forces had warned residents to evacuate.

[wmbrew0206]

25. Read post #4 &$7, where I said "There are fractions of the JAM, that Sadr doesn't control."

I've been over there and seen with my own eyes what is going on.

[leftchick]

26. really?

do tell

[wmbrew0206]

29. I have been.

I was responding to your post where you said I wasn't aware that Sadr doesn't control all of the JAM militias.

I pointed out that I had mentioned that fact in two of my previous posts.

[leftchick]

32. you have not addressed

For whom things are better in Iraq.

[wmbrew0206]

35. Yes I have. You don't seem to read my posts.

Things are getting much better for the Iraqis.

I've mentioned how the first thing you have to do is go in and clear an area, then you have to build COPs and move in US and Iraqi troops to live in the neighborhood. Once the area becomes secure the rebuilding process begins.

This is what happened in the Al Anbar province for an example. Go read about Ramadi. What it has like there in 2006 versus now. Same with Fallujah. Same with Haditha.

This strategy has worked all over Iraq and it worked because the Iraqi people made it work. The reason the Awakening councils have sprung up all over Iraq is because Iraqis have seen how quiet things are in Ramadi and Fallujah are. They see how these cities are being rebuilt and there is economic development and that is what they want for their cities.

Sadr City is one of the last parts of Baghdad that the US had not gone into. What was suppose to start at some point was the clear portion, of the "Clear, hold, rebuild" COIN strategy. Once the Iraqis secure Sadr City and get the COPs built, then you see a reduction in the amount of fighting and air strikes in Sadr City.

[leftchick]

39. this reads like an Onion piece

or something Hannity spews. Fallujah is all better?? omfg! This sir, is R E A L I T Y for Iraqis....

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42327


IRAQ: Food Crisis Hits Fallujah
By Ali al-Fadhily and Dahr Jamail*

FALLUJAH, May 12 (IPS) - Sharp increases in food prices have generated a new wave of anti-occupation and anti-U.S. sentiment in Fallujah.

"This is a country that was damned by the Americans the moment they stepped on our soil," Burhan Jassim, a farmer from Sichir village just outside Fallujah told IPS. "This is Iraqi land that has always been blessed by Allah with the best production in quality and quantity, but now see how it has been turned into a wasteland."

Fallujah faces this new crisis after much of the city was destroyed by U.S. military operations in 2004.

The area around Fallujah city, which lies 70 km west of Baghdad, has traditionally been one of the most agriculturally productive in Iraq. Farmers planted tomatoes and cucumbers north of Fallujah, others grew potatoes south of the city near Amiriya. Both areas had plenty of date palm trees and small fruit plantations. Now production is down to a fraction of what it was.

Farmers have been struggling with changing times. "We changed our motors from electric to diesel oil to avoid electricity failures during the UN sanctions (during the 1990s)," Raad Sammy, an agriculture engineer who has a small farm in Saqlawiya on the outskirts of Fallujah told IPS. "We used to have a minimum of 12 hours electricity per day under the programmed cut, but there is practically no electricity now. And now we also have to face lack of fuel for our pumps, and the incredible increase of fuel prices on the black market."

The price of agricultural products has skyrocketed. "The average price for one kilogram of tomatoes is approximately one dollar," Yasseen Kamil, a grocer in Fallujah told IPS. "This price is when there is no crisis such as Americans blocking the entrance into the city. It is naturally doubled in winter when we have to import everything from Syria and Jordan."

<snip>


As with any difficulty now, many Iraqis believe that the occupation forces want it this way.

"It is obvious that the prices are up and life is difficult in this city and all of Iraq because it has been so planned," Sheikh Ala'in, a cleric in Fallujah told IPS. "Occupation planners designed this poverty in order to make Iraqis work for them as policemen and spies. Iraq is floating on a lake of oil, but there is no gas to run water pumps. What an irony."

Residents say they are told of a world food crisis that may be affecting them. But their crisis arises mainly from local factors like shortage of water, fuel and electricity.

Whatever the reason, residents simply want relief. "We just want our lives back," said a college student who gave her name only as Nada. "We want to eat, buy clothes, get proper education and breathe pure air. No thanks to Americans for their effort to bring us democracy that killed half of us by their bombs and is now apparently killing the other half by starvation. Can you pass this message to the American people for us?"


"We just want our lives back,"!!! "No thanks to Americans"!!

Are you getting the picture yet??

:freak:

[wmbrew0206]

41. If you are really going to try and use IPS news

as a source for factual events in Iraq, there is no point trying to discuss this with you. It is not accurate and provides a one sided view of things. Why didn't they interview the mayor of Fallujah? Why didn't they talk to any city council members? Why didn't they talk to any tribal leaders? Why didn't they talk to the head of the power plant? You'd think those are some people you'd want to talk when discussing a food shortage in a city. Is there a food shortage in Ramadi? There must be since it is only about 30km from Fallujah. You'd think they would want to included that in the article too.

I've been to Fallujah. I have friends there right now. A year ago an Iraqi wouldn't dare be seen with an American in Fallujah, now an Iraqi would rather been seen with an American than a member of AQI. It is no where near where it was in 2002, but it is a lot better of than it was in 2004.

[leftchick]

44. A year ago an Iraqi wouldn't dare be seen with an American in Fallujah

what a fucking accomplishment! :rofl:


IPS is more reliable than your choice of American propaganda will ever be and an excellent source of information. Sorry, I will no longer bother you in your kool-aide happy hour. You seem so content in opposite land. :eyes:

[wmbrew0206]

45. You know, you are probably right

I guess this is one of those situations where I should believe you and IPS over my lying eyes.

If you don't know what it means for an Iraqi to walk down the street with an American in Fallujah, then you have no clue about what is really going on in Iraq.

Keep reading only the articles that fit your view and don't bother to answer any of the questions raised about one of those articles.

[leftchick]

46. projection

"Keep reading only the articles that fit your view and don't bother to answer any of the questions raised about one of those articles."

a typical repuke tactic.



Let us take a look at the once lovely peaceful Fallujah, before it was destroyed by the US!




http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2008/03/return-to-iraqi-values-fallujah-has.html

<snip>


What is happening here? Fallujah has been turned into a prison; isolated from the rest of Iraq, and divided into nine walled-off security zones called "gated communities". Just to travel across the city, people have to go through choke-points where mercenaries -- former insurgents now making $180 a month each for work with the Iraqi-American "security services" -- check every car and register every visitor.

Their boss says things like: "No democracy in Iraq. Ever."

How did we come to this?

According to the Washington Post, it's "Peace Through Brute Strength".

The "Iraqi City's Fragile Security Flows From Hussein-Era Tactics".

No kidding. It's a return to the past. Or so Sudarsan Raghavan tells us :

The story of Zobaie and his police force opens a window onto the Iraq that is emerging after five years of war.

American ideals that were among the justifications for the 2003 invasion, such as promoting democracy and human rights, are giving way to values drawn from Iraq's traditions and tribal culture, such as respect, fear and brutality.





go on back to your red drink.

[wmbrew0206]

48. Just go ahead and keep ignoring the questions I raised about

that PSI article.

That article is clearly a case of a writer trying to fit a story to match their agenda. Please tell me why they didn't bother to talk to anyone in a position of power to find out why there was a food shortage or the reason for reduction in the amount of electricity.

I have said that Fallujah is better off now than it was in 2002? No.

I'll tell you right now that if things had stayed like they were when I was in Iraq in 2005, I'd be saying we need to pull out. The Colonel I worked for during that tour (Col Devlin) wrote a report in '06 saying Al Anbar was lost. If things had stayed the way they were I'd be singing a different tune. However, the Awakening and the Surge have made real gains and proved a chance to secure Iraq and leave it as a stable democracy. We can't let this opportunity pass.

link to Col. Devlin's report: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/10/AR2006091001204_pf.html

I don't think we're going to agree on this but I'll say one more time:

If we, as Democrats, don't start acknowledging the process that is happening in Iraq and prepare our strategy accordingly. The NY Times even had an article about progress in Basra today. We need to be able to take this issue away from the republicans in the fall, if we don't McCain is going to be able to use it to club Obama over the head during the GE.

I'm not going to keep going with you on this thread because I don't seeing either of us changing our opinions on this matter.

[leftchick]

52. you really

do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea who Dahr Jamail, Jim Lobe or Gareth Porter are? Then you sir, are sadly misinformed. You are also projecting again when you accuse me of not answering questions. Are you sure you are a democratc?? :crazy:

:yawn:

nitey nite.

[seemslikeadream]

54. They are on their knees thanking us for all that depeleted uranium

we gave them, please no thanks needed it was no trouble, no trouble at all.

[leftchick]

56. oh my goodness SLaD!

reality bites doesn't it?

:hi:

[seemslikeadream]

57. Iraqis will suffer for a very long time

because of what the United States of America has done. All we can hope for is that our elected officials listen to what Philippe Sands has told them. Make them accountable or else the world will

[leftchick]

27. better for whom?

Certainly not Iraqis. Or did you forget the US is still bombing highly populated civilian areas. :eyes:



A man salvages car parts after a number of car repair shops burned overnight in Sadr City, Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, May 12, 2008. According to eyewitnesses the market caught fire from anti missile flares shot by the US helicopters. Overnight clashes in Sadr City have killed two people and wounded some 25, including five children, despite a reported cease-fire in the Iraqi capital's sprawling Shiite slum, Iraqi health officials said Monday.
(AP Photo/Karim Kadim)

[seemslikeadream]

53. GETTING BETTER IN IRAQ! TURN THE CHANNEL SWEETIE

[wmbrew0206]

11. You need to pay more attention to your own links

From your first article:

"The offensive sparked fierce resistance from the Mehdi Army militia of Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. While fighting with security forces eased in Basra within a week, clashes with Shi'ite gunmen raged in the cleric's Baghdad stronghold of Sadr City until an agreement last weekend to halt fighting."

Your second article just says a fight broke out.

I'll say it again: This agreement does not start until Wednesday, May 14th. So it really can't fall apart before it starts.

Here are how things are going to go starting Wednesday: There will be fighting between Iraqi security forces and some members of JAM who do not want to give up their heavy weapons. That will continue for about a week or two as Iraqi forces move into Sadr city and establish Combat Out Posts (COPs). Then the Iraqi security forces will gain control of the neighborhoods and things will quiet down. This is how Ramadi and Fallujah were both secured.

However, if Sadr does not abide by this agreement, he'll say this men are being targeted and the Iraqi government is unfairly arresting his people and then cancel the agreement and call for his JAM to continue fighting.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Sadr has a bag over his head and a chemical light stuck up his ass in some American run prison

The US military is making agreements and cease fires with itself.

Iraqis aren't buying this crap.

Give it up.

Don

[wmbrew0206]

14. I only wish

I'd love to know where you're getting the "Iraqis aren't buying this crap" from.

Like I said, I've been there. I seen Ramadi go from being a AQI strong hold in the fall of '06 to a secured city that did not have an attack inside the city for over a year. (The city would be defined as the Euphrates canal on the west, the Euphrates river on the north, the agriculture college on the east and the railroad tracks on the south). This happened because the Iraqis themselves, with some help for the US, made it happen.

You can stick your head in the sand and ignore what is happening in Iraq right now if you want. I just hope Democratic leaders know better and start taking notice.

[NNN0LHI]

15. How did you discern the AQI from the Iraqis who just don't like foreign invaders in their country?

Or are they all the same?

Don

[wmbrew0206]

16. They are not the same and there are several ways to tell the difference

The Iraqis themselves are the best resource. Once Ramadi had been cleared and COPs set up, the Iraqis were use to seeing the same soldiers/Marines living in their neighborhood day after day and they secure enough to provide intel. They started alerting the Marines/soldiers, IA, and IP's when someone who didn't belong showed up. An Iraq can tell you where a person is from by their accent and/or dress.

Also, AQ in Iraq is made mainly of foreign fighters. The Iraqi culture has a lot of things that are unique to it, so if you know what those are it is easy to distinguish someone who does not fit in. For example: Iraqi Shias typically do not wear any silver jewelry, it is all gold. So if you see someone in a Shia neighborhood with silver jewelry on it is something you'd check out.

Of course there are other ways based off of intel sources too.

[NNN0LHI]

20. The old "foreign fighters" BS again?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-05-detainees-usat_x.htm

Foreign detainees are few in Iraq

By Peter Eisler and Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY

Suspected foreign fighters account for less than 2% of the 5,700 captives being held as security threats in Iraq, a strong indication that Iraqis are largely responsible for the stubborn insurgency.

Since last August, coalition forces have detained 17,700 people in Iraq who were considered to be enemy fighters or security risks, and about 400 were foreign nationals, according to figures supplied last week by the U.S. military command handling detention operations in Iraq. Most of those detainees were freed after a review board found they didn't pose significant threats. About 5,700 remain in custody, 90 of them non-Iraqis.

The numbers represent one of the most precise measurements to date of the composition of the insurgency and suggest that some Bush administration officials have overstated the role of foreign holy warriors, or jihadists, from other Arab states. The figures also suggest that Iraq isn't as big a magnet for foreign terrorists as some administration critics have asserted.

In Ramadi, where Marines have fended off coordinated attacks by hundreds of insurgents, the fighters "are all locals," says Lt. Col. Paul Kennedy, commander of the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment. "There are very few foreign fighters."

[wmbrew0206]

23. You do realize that article is from 2004? Things have changed a little since then.

The majority of AQI left in Iraq right now are foreign fighters.

Up until the Awakening, there were two separate Sunni insurgencies: Local Iraqis and AQI. They sometimes work together and other times fought each other. Once the Awakening happened the local Sunni Tribes started working with the US to fight AQI, who was worse in the eyes of the local Iraqis. Once this happened, AQI was denied its largest pool of recruits (local Iraqis) and lost a lot of safe heavens to work out of.

Now the majority of the JAM militias fighting the government are local Shias.

[leftchick]

33. I think the reality is they did it for the MONEY!

The US paid sunni militias (with our tax $$), that were killing US soldiers, to turn on the minute number of Foreign fighters. Most of whom came from Saudi Arabia NOT Iran. And Minute compared to the Iraqi Nationalists that want the US Occupiers out. I can't say as I blame them. Imperialism sucks.

[wmbrew0206]

36. The money was part of it, but not the main reason

The Iraqis were tired of dealing with the crazy Wahabi version of Islam that the FF implemented when the moved into an area. No TV, no smoking, women's faces fully covered (in Iraq they normally were just a head scarf). They also forced the local tribal leaders to marry their daughters to AQI fighters.

The money allowed Tribal chiefs to be able to pay their tribal members enough money so they would take the money AQI was paying to plant IEDs.

[NNN0LHI]

6. Sadr hasn't been seen in public in nearly a year and I think he is in US custody

I think these are just plain old Iraqis we are killing over there.

The propaganda machine can crank out all the evil sounding names, terrorists, Sadrists, etc. they want to but I am not buying into it.

Don

[wmbrew0206]

8. Sadr is in Iran, there is little argument about that.

There was a story about three weeks ago about Sadr saying that he felt he had failed in leading the Shias of Iraq into a new Shia lead government and was going to concentrate on his study of the Koran in Qom.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Not a good idea to repeat every story you might read somewhere as fact

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/18/iran.sadr/index.html

Where is al-Sadr? Not in Iran, official says

POSTED: 5:36 a.m. EST, February 21, 2007

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman denied Sunday that Muqtada al-Sadr, the radical Iraqi Shiite cleric who opposes the U.S. presence in Iraq, is in Iran.

"Muqtada al-Sadr is not in Iran," Mohammad Ali Hosseini said, according to the semi-official Iran Labor News Agency.

Hosseini labeled as "propaganda" U.S. suggestions to the contrary, accusing the United States of waging a "psychological" war to pressure Iran.

Last week, an Iraqi government official said al-Sadr departed Iraq for Iran a few days earlier, just as coalition forces were staging security crackdowns on insurgents.

Sami al-Askari, a member of parliament and a political adviser to Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, provided no details.

Earlier last week, Bush administration and U.S. military officials also said al-Sadr was in Iran and had been there for about two weeks. (Read the full story)

But on Sunday, White House Spokesman Tony Snow said he didn't know al-Sadr's whereabouts.

"It is unclear," Snow told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer." "It's pretty clear he's not holding press conferences and making his whereabouts known.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSGRA02761420070810

U.S. commander says "he thinks" Iraqi cleric Sadr in Iran

Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:11pm EDT

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Powerful Iraqi Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr is in Iran and not in complete control of the militia that owe allegiance to him, the U.S. commander in Sadr's main stronghold in Baghdad said on Friday.

"I think he is now in Iran so just based on his location that implies that some of his control is not direct," Colonel John Castles said in a video conference from Baghdad with journalists in Washington. snip

Sadr was last seen in public in Iraq attending a religious ceremony in the holy city of Kufa on May 25, when he denounced the United States as part of an "evil trio" with Britain and Israel.

U.S. officials said at the time that they believed Sadr had been out of the country for the previous four months, and they said in July they believed he had left Iraq again.

[wmbrew0206]

12. First, I'm not basing my opinion of where he is off a newspare

article. It is based off my time in Iraq and what I'm hearing from people I know who are over there.

Second, your links are over a year old. Sadr is believed to have moved back to Iran around Mid-Jan last year when the Surge was starting. That is consistent with what your second link states.

The reason I mentioned the article is because it contained a quote from Sadr's people saying that he would be concentrating on his Islamic studies i nthe Shia holy city of Qom in Iran.

I don't think we are going to change each others mind on this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Bucky]

18. George Bush the uniter strikes again.

Al-Sadr used to denounce Iranian influence in his country. We killed off the guy who killed his father. Why is he not our ally?

It's just one fuck up after another over there.

[Bucky]

17. I'm always happy to see the killing slow down there.

The idea that we have to be fighting with the Sadrists is absurd, of course. We could've bought them off four or five years ago and there'd be thousands fewer dead people. Lately he's been getting described as "anti American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr". But I remember when they called him "anti Iranian cleric Muqtada al-Sadr."

[wmbrew0206]

19. I'm not trying to argue, but could you provide a link to that?

I've never heard Sadr described as "anti-Iranian," but I'd like to see it if it is true.

[annabanana]

21. So we can leave now, right? (yay!). . . . .n/t

[Dave From Canada]

22. I think it's more likely that Obama will be able to fulfil his troop reduction promise when he's

elected in November. And that, within 16 months of his first term, there may be a very light troop presence, if any at all.

[wmbrew0206]

30. Hopefully, most of the BCT's and RCT's can be brought home..

I can tell you that we'll have to continue providing military assistant in the Logistic and Air Support areas for several more years.

Logistics is one of the hardest things to do in the military and they Iraqis are really struggling with it.

[Horse with no Name]

28. Democratic Underground?

Check.
Had to look at the header.
You usually don't see these obvious propaganda pieces here.:eyes:
But if it makes ya FEEL good...knock yourself out.
Me? I am kind of fond of the truth.:shrug:

[wmbrew0206]

31. I hope that is not the "truth" democratic leaders are going off of.

Like I said above, McCain has tied himself to Petraeus and the "Surge" strategy. If things in Iraq keep improving like they are now into the fall, then its going to HUGE part of McCain's "experience" argument.

We as Democrats have to recognize what is happening and start adapting our strategy now to take away this issue from republicans.

[HughMoran]

34. Your HUGE concern...

...is duly noted :hi:

[Disturbed]

38. Al Sadr has been described as anti-Iranian.

Mahmud al-Hasani: A Profile of Iraq's Rising Shiite Leader
Sep 12, 2006 ... His anti-Iranian stance (which is uncommon for Shiites) along with his ... Al-Sadr angered al-Hasani when he joined the political process in ...

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370129

Al-Sadr has been described as anti-Iranian many times although that has been disputed. He is anti-US/UK Occupation for sure.

[wmbrew0206]

40. Thanks for the link

I had not seen Sadr described as anti-Iranian in any reporting before.

[alfredo]

37. bush won't bring our troops home, no matter what.

"It's not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact." ----
George Orwell

[Disturbed]

43. You're welcome, wmbrew0206 . Is al Maliki anti-Iranian?

I saw a photo of him holding hands with the Pres. of Iran. Does that mean anything?

[wmbrew0206]

47. Not really. It is just the Arab custom that Pres. of Iran (who's Persian) was probably

indulging al-Maliki in. It is a sign of friendship in the Arabic world. You'll see pictures of many POTUS holding hands with the Arabic leaders.

I think al Maliki is guided more by pro-Iraq feelings than he is pro-Iran. I think al-Maliki started off being pro-Iran and stayed there when it looked like a civil war was about to happen. I think he was prepared for the US to pull out and was trying to prepare for the fight to come and Iran looked like the safe bet.

Since the Surge has calmed things down, I think Maliki realizes that he'll be better off as the head of a united Iraq. When I left Iraq, I didn't think he was worth much, but he has since been much more decisive and has been willing to take bold action against what was thought of as his base. Going after the Shia militias has shown the Sunnis that the government isn't playing favorites anymore and that has brought them back into the government along with the Sunni prisoner release that al Maliki got through.

[Imagevision]

42. Bush can't end the war, too much defense spending involved...

[Disturbed]

49. Iraq cannot be the forefront of negative upon McLame.

It is one of many issues that must be discussed. McLame's domestic policies must be the main
issue.

[wmbrew0206]

50. I agree Distrubed, however

Imagine if after Obama clinches the nomination, he holds a big press conferences and says that the events on the ground have lead him to reconsider his position on Iraq. He says that if things continue as the are in Iraq, he'll agree to a longer phased withdraw in order to allow the elected Iraqi government to maintain security and stability.

That would completely take away any way McCain could say that Obama is soft on national defense. It would also allow him to show the American people he isn't wedded to an idea so hard he'll cling to it like a child to a favorite teddy bear and ignore everything to the contrary (like Bush). It also allows Obama enough wiggle room to pull the troops out if things return to their '06 state.

[seemslikeadream]

55. We just haven't killed enough Iraqis yet?

Is that what you are saying?

[Dave From Canada]

51. Yes, but if this new progress holds, Obama can definitely end the war, without the widespread

negative consequences people are worried about.