Court forces boy, 11, to undergo chemotherapy

[PeaceNikki]

I just heard this on NPR. So very very very sad. :(

http://www.thestar.com/article/424595

Judge puts boy into CAS care after parents support his decision not to undergo another round of treatment

May 12, 2008 05:55 PM
Michael Oliveira
The Canadian Press

A decision to forcibly impose chemotherapy on an 11-year-old Hamilton boy who didn't want to go through another round of painful treatment was "heavy-handed" and "worrisome," several bioethicists said today.

The boy, who cannot be named because he is now in the care of the Children's Aid Society, has been thrust into the thorny debate over the right to seek alternative therapies and ignore conventional wisdom.

He was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia when he was seven, went into remission, but then had to endure the tough experience of chemotherapy earlier this year when the cancer returned.

After being told last week he needed more chemo he refused to go through the ordeal again. He took that position even though doctors said he'd have only six months to live without the therapy, while treatment would give him a 50 per cent chance of fighting off the cancer.

The boy's family supported his decision and was ready to try alternative therapies at home, but doctors insisted he go through chemotherapy again. A judge ruled that the boy cannot make an informed decision and he was put into CAS care to ensure he get chemo.


more at link

[malaise]

1. Doctors now make decisions for parents

So a child cannot have a living will. Ah fuck them.

[Cerridwen]

2. My Goddess! Does that judge have any clue what chemotherapy is like?!

"Cruel and unusual punishment" doesn't begin to describe it.

Heaven help that boy. He's going to need it.

[PeaceNikki]

3. It's heartbreaking.

:(

[Cerridwen]

4. It is indeed. It is also heartLESS.

After my dad died of cancer, we "joked" (gallows humor during traumatic times) that the cure for his cancer is what killed him. Chemotherapy was part of that cure. It was a long, slow motion, living nightmare.

[PeaceNikki]

5. And they removed him from his home. If this doesn't break your heart, you have none.

He said, "I don't care. They can even kill me with their chemo and stuff I don't care, as long as I can come home and be home with you and mommy."

:cry:

[conflictgirl]

40. OMG, I think that's the saddest thing I've ever read.

I don't normally cry but reading that actually made me burst into tears. :cry:

I have a son who will be 11 in a couple months and I can't even imagine.

[juno jones]

25. My dad too.

And my mom.

Wasted away and died from the 'cure'.

Mom actually had a chance, she'd gone raw food and was doing essaic- along with the chemo. The mesothimeloma was actually receding (a rare thing apparently). Then her doc insisted that the progress was because of his chemo, forbid her her 'holistic' cures and doubled his dosages. The cancer came back with a vengeance and she was dead in 6 months. It was horrible. At least the diet and herbs seemed to be giving her a better quality of life.

[Cerridwen]

28. I'm sorry for your loses.

:hug:

I don't know that I'll ever understand those who would prolong life at the expense of living well.

I wish you my best and much healing, junofeb.

[sharp_stick]

15. I wonder if the kid knows what death is really like?

He's given a 50% chance of remission with the chemo and a 100% chance of kicking off in 6 months without it. I say the judge made the right call.

[Cerridwen]

22. As much as you or I do, I would imagine.

I'll tell you what the kid DOES know, that I don't know and I presume you don't know, or you wouldn't be so glib. That is, what chemotherapy is like. I'll trust his judgment of what chemo is like and what it's like to go through it without his family.

I say the judge needs a heart unless there's more to this than is told in the article.

[JeanGrey]

37. I'm going through it right now. And I only WISH I had a fifty

percent chance of a cure!!! That is unbelievable odds. The difference between certain death and possible life.

[Evoman]

45. That's terrible.

I hope things work out for you, JeanGrey.

[JeanGrey]

47. Thanks. They are doing the right thing for the boy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. Torn on this one.

It is heavy handed but not getting treatment is suicide. Is the kid depressed? It would be nice to see the testimony. A couple of other things chemo is a lot better than it used to be. Pain meds are better, zofram is great for the nausea. Not big on the government making decisions for people, but kids legally are another matter.

David

[PeaceNikki]

7. This kid's been fighting it for 4 years. And he's only 11.

Depressed? I don't even think that come close to how he feels.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. You do realize I'm talking about clinical depression.

Fighting cancer for 4 years doesn't not necessarily trigger clinical depression. Clinical depression can however affect ones state of mind and cause them to make decisions that aren't in their self interest.

David

[lastliberalintexas]

9. Chemo treatments have improved, but they are often still brutal

My mother and one of her friends who have each endured multiple rounds of chemo have each told me that they will not undergo the treatment again if their cancers return. They have the right to make that decision, this boy probably should as well. Eleven to 12 is when the law starts to allow kids to make certain decisions regarding custody issues, they should probably also have the right to control their own bodies as well, unless there is sufficient evidence of extreme mental immaturity or developmental problems.

[Cerridwen]

10. 50% WITH treatment - sorry, David, I don't agree with you on this one.

We treat our animals better than this boy is being treated. His family honored his wishes.

Have you spent time, not just a bit here and there, but serious, hands-on time with an adult going through chemotherapy? I have no words to describe it. This boy has a 50% chance of survival WITH chemo AND they took him away from his family. Young, scared, sick (beyond what you and I can imagine), and alone with strangers.

Heartless. It's the only word that keeps coming to my mind. Heartless.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. Don't agree with me on what?

Kind of hard not to agree since I made no conclusive statement. All I said was that I was torn. I can say with reasonable certainty that both sides think they have the child's best interest in mind. To answer your question, does 2 months in the tumor ward at walter reed as a patient count?

David

[Cerridwen]

27. Try 7 years with your dad dying of cancer.

Sorry, I perhaps read a conclusion that wasn't there.

As you can tell, this particular issue is a little close to home for me.

I wouldn't wish those 7 years on my worst enemy; much less an 11 year old going it alone without his family. At least my dad had all of us around and he was an adult.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. Like I said I'm torn.

I'd like to know the specifics to make a better decision. Sorry about your father.

David

[undeterred]

8. I think an 11 year old can say ENOUGH.

For that matter, even a dying pet can tell us by their attitude that its time to stop the heroics and let go because we are only pronlonging the pain. An 11 year old should be allowed to make this decision with his parents and doctor.

[PeaceNikki]

11. Death-phobia at the expense of quality of life like this is sick.

"Living" with the pain he's endured and is facing is not living at all.

[ulysses]

24. strongly disagree.

I've been this kid - diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma at the same age he is now. Chemo, rads, the whole nine yards. It was unpleasant.

I was no more able to decide that I was ready to die at that age than I could fly.

[Warpy]

12. I wouldn't want to go through it, either, but 11 year old kids

are simply not able to make decisions about this stuff. If his oncologist thinks there is a good chance of another 4 year (or longer) remission, that's really what needs to be done.

I know parents get sick of seeing their children made miserable by treatment that is nearly as bad as the disease and I sympathize with them. However, I'd hope they'd do the nutritional treatment along with the course of chemo to give the little guy the best possible chance.

Just as the state intervenes in cases where parents try to pray away lethal illnesses, they need to intervene where parents are taking unproven, alternative treatments on just as much faith as prayer. Children aren't the absolute property of their parents and the state has the right to intervene in their best interests.

I hope this kid and his parents have a very long time to be angry at the state for butting in.

[PeaceNikki]

13. His previous remission was 2 weeks, not 4 years.

And I think this 11 year-old has been through a LOT more than most 11 year-olds. His decision comes from experience, not the typical naivety of a "normal" 11 year-old.

[Warpy]

14. He has fetal alcohol syndrome, so he's MORE naive than

the typical 11 year old.

Also, where did you get that 2 weeks from? He was treated at 7 and had the cancer return this year, at the age of 11. That is four years, not two weeks.

Cancer is not called in remission until the system has been clear of it for a hell of a lot longer than two weeks.

[PeaceNikki]

16. The rep from CAS was on NPR. Said he was cleared in January and 2 weeks later, it returned.

OK, this article says 1 year of remission:
http://www.thespec.com/article/366835

For a while. He had one year of remission. A year of good health and high spirits. A year to go to Disney World. Enjoy school. Dance. Run.

Jan. 27 he celebrated his cancer-free year. Feb. 8, it was back.

[sharp_stick]

17. Actually that means he was cancer free for 52 weeks not 2 n/t

[PeaceNikki]

18. yes... I was wrong.

[Warpy]

19. That's after his four year remission

between the ages of seven and eleven.

[PeaceNikki]

21. He was diagnosed at 7 and in remission for a year. He's 11 now.

And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it was a rough ride the whole time including a lot of chemo.

In any case, I still think he and his family have a right to opt out of that route of treatment. And taking him from his home was horrific.

[Warpy]

29. He was not kept on constant chemo for 4 years

Your math is faulty no matter how you look at it.

I'd rather piss his parents off and have him live.

I guess other people would rather have his parents try to faith heal him with herbs and vitamins and watch him die.

That's the choice.

[PeaceNikki]

31. Nor was there complete absence of it for 4 years. Your math is equally faulty.

[NashVegas]

20. The Ability to Cope With Death, Emotionally, Is a Greater Talent Than Delaying It, IMO

I've come to the conclusion that one of the reasons we have become so emotionally immature as a race is our (very recent) refusal to accept death as a part of the natural life cycle.

[Shine]

32. So sad. Why not have Hospice come in and let the family and kid have some dignity?

They've already been through so much already. :(

[JeanGrey]

39. Do you not think the child is going to suffer, even with hospice,

waiting to die, when that same amount of suffering could lead to cure?

[ulysses]

33. couple of thoughts.

I understand the qualms about the state forcing a child into chemo.

That said, doctors don't prescribe chemo for the sheer fuck-all of it. If they're that insistent, then the kid has some kind of a chance. Let him have it.

I understand the parents wanting to spare the child more pain. Believe me, I do.

That said, as the child of parents who sucked it the fuck up and put me through the chemotherapy that saved my life in 1980, it's time for this kid's folks to be bigger then their own fears and let the docs try to save their son's life.

I understand the "death with dignity" arguments.

That said, the kid is eleven. If he has a chance, then give him the fucking chance.

[auntAgonist]

36. I agree, I do wish however

that this had all been handled differently. It's awful that CAS had to get involved. I hope and pray for a full remission for the child. 11 is too young to give up.

From what I read, he's in the care of CAS which probably means he's been sent to a foster home (?). I hope not. :(

aA

[ulysses]

41. yeah.

A different approach, were it workable, would have been better. Hope he's not in foster care.

[lastliberalintexas]

42. I don't have as much faith in doctors as you

Though these are at least in Canada and therefore probably don't have any profit motive involved in their recommendation, so that might change things. But US doctors tried to convince my 82 year old grandfather with advanced lung cancer that had already begun spreading to try radiation and chemo. I and the rest of my family were all very happy that he refused and instead focused on living as best he could in his remaining time.


I also understand both sides, and I can see where many would say that an 11 year old really doesn't have the maturity to deal with this. But that's the typical 11 year old, not one who has already battled cancer and is losing again. It's certainly a difficult and incredibly sad situation all around. :(

[orleans]

34. it's a sad story...

however, when i think of my daughter and what i would have done in that position--as a parent--i would rather chance it that she live than let her go.

at 11 you're a kid. you're still a kid. and while you may not want to go through more chemo---what is the alternative.

would've, could've, should've.

you can't go back and rethink a position like this once your child is dead.

(although it's easy for me to say this--i'm only projecting what i think i would have done--thank god i've never been in this position)

but, to me, it's the saddest thing in the world to say goodbye to someone. and to have to say goodbye to your child...for the last time? i just can't imagine it.

[Matariki]

35. I wonder what the hospital (and court) would do if the kid's family didn't have insurance

probably would have never even gone to court in the first place.

[auntAgonist]

38. as this is in Ontario Canada (Hamilton). Insurance isn't an issue.

But you do raise a good question for those in the USA who might not have insurance.

aA

[bmbmd]

43. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?

This kid's parents aren't really all that great in making decisions for their boy, are they? ALL is a potentially curable childhood cancer, even after recurrence. The judge is correct.

[PeaceNikki]

44. The mother is dead. Her judgement is no longer in question.

[Midlodemocrat]

50. I don't see where the mom is dead.

But the father's judgment is certainly in question if he ignored the fact that the boy's mother drank while she was pregnant.

[PeaceNikki]

54. I heard it on NPR. It's discussed here:

http://www.thespec.com/article/366835

When the boy was small, his mother was diagnosed with brain cancer. While she was ill, he and his sister were put in foster care and his mom gave birth to another baby. That child lived four days. Relatives say it died because of mom's cancer treatments. Treatments that didn't work and she died. The boy was four. When he was seven, he was diagnosed with cancer.

[SidDithers]

46. Update: The child has been returned to his parents...

but CAS will retain authority for making his medical decisions.

Heard this on our local news radio tonight. Hamilton, where this is happening, is about 15 minutes from me.

Sid

Edit: and FWIW, I agree with the court's decision(s).

[Clintonista2]

48. An 11 year old kid does not have the capacity to make life or death decisions

[Midlodemocrat]

49. I agree. An 11yo doesn't have the capacity to realize that he needs to eat his vegetables.

[fed_up_mother]

52. An eleven year old boy with fetal alcohol damage is probably

closer to ages 6 to 8 emotionally. Those little kids tend to be very, very naive.

[fed_up_mother]

51. A fifty percent chance that chemo would fight it off?

that's pretty damn good odds.

[noonwitch]

53. I agree-who lets 11 year olds make up their own minds about this kind of thing?

Kids don't want to go to the dentist, either, but parents drag them there. They don't want their immunizations, either, but they end up getting them.