Abortion limit baby girl goes home

[The Straight Story]

Abortion limit baby girl goes home

A baby girl born when her mother was just 23 weeks pregnant - and five days before the legal abortion limit - is recovering at home after nine-months in hospital.

Ellie-Suzanne Fish was born nearly four months premature at Southmead Hospital, in Bristol.

Doctors told parents Beverley and Dave Fish their daughter, born weighing 1lb 4.7oz (589 grams) had only a 10% to 15% chance of survival.

After slowly gaining weight and coming through two brain operations Ellie-Suzanne is home with her three brothers David, 18, Martyn, 17, and Joshua, 11, and her sister, Abbie, 15.

Some MPs are calling for the Fertilisation and Embryology Act to be amended so the legal limit for abortion is lowered from its present level of 24 weeks to between 12 and 22 weeks.

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iLAU6A4QWkMic9sACKlmw9_iSDKA

[Iris]

1. Perhaps they should wait until this child reaches adulthood

before they make such an ammendment. Who knows how things will turn out for her in the long run.

[bryant69]

3. I remember in highschool someone trying to convince me that

as an adopted child, chances were good it would be better if I had never been born. I wasn't convinced.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[laylah]

4. ...

:hug:

[Iris]

5. well, that person was an asshole.

but in this situation, there could be lifelong physcial and mental complications because of this medical intervention. It proves nothing in terms of reproductive rights.

[JuniperLea]

11. What a horrible thing to say to a kid!

Ugh...

I had an appointment for an abortion once when I was 20... I was literally lying on the table... and I couldn't go through with it.

My oldest is a chemical engineer and technical writer now. I know my life wouldn't have been as good without him. I think the world is better with him too.

We are all here because we were meant to be here.

[bryant69]

13. It was another kid so I'm not too hard on him. Just one of those things. n/t

[TomInTib]

10. I agree. From experience...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3285143&mesg_id=3285166

If she would have just gone ahead and died, life certainly would have been easier and simpler.

But she was tough, and life was constant crazy and a world of bizarre fun.

Never a dull moment

Especially if you enjoy jails and mental institutions.

[TomInTib]

2. My sister was a 25-week baby.

In 1953, no less. Born prematurely as a result of a tremendous car crash.

And she survived and thrived, physically.

But she is crazy as hell.

Man, I could write a book.

[JuniperLea]

12. But what have you learned about yourself, and about life...

Because of your sister?

I have a schizophrenic family member, and it's rough as hell... but I wouldn't trade her, or the experience, for anything. I think I'm a kinder, gentler person because of her. The lessons I've learned and the strength I've gained cannot be measured.

[TomInTib]

14. I learned to stay on my toes and to never be surprised by anything.

She is something else.

I wish that I could go on, but I lost some use of my left hand last week and typing is a real chore.

[JuniperLea]

15. Holy cow! I hope you get better!

How frustrating.

Yeah, something else about covers it here too. My family member has an IQ of 150... and she's nutty as bat shit... but I love her:)

[TomInTib]

17. "frustrating" is right.

Last October, I had quite a morning...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=26884&mesg_id=26884

But I worked my tail off, re-learning to write, play guitar, eat with utensils, just about everything. Had to reprogram my right hand so that the ulnar network could take over from the radial (my original prognosis was the other way around). I mean, my right hand was just gone on vacation.

Finally got most of my guitar back, so I was doing some recording last Wednesday when suddenly my left hand became very tired. That really got my attention, because my hand never gets tired.

So I put my guitar back in its case, sat down, and felt my left hand leave the room. Felt like someone was pouring warm water on my arm from the elbow down. I felt my hand's energy flow right thru my fingertips. Took maybe a second. And I could not move my hand at all.

Frustrating, indeed.

[JuniperLea]

20. Best of luck to you...

I feel your pain...

My b/f busted both wrists when he was pulled from the stage by the chain on their singer's wallet... he can't play more than 20 minutes at a time now without his hands going numb. Everything about that is frustrating... to both of us.

Good to see you've mastered the caps again!

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. This is at the earliest limit of viability

Around 23 and 24 weeks, the lungs finish forming; the remaining 15 to 18 weeks is growth and development which increase the survivability to child-bearing age. Before the lungs have finished forming, there is ZERO chance of survivability, as the lungs are not functional.

[LeftishBrit]

7. A friend of mine survived being born at 26 weeks when the limit was officially 28 weeks

Babies, especially girls, do occasionally survive being born at 23 weeks nowadays, though the odds are against them. I don't think any baby ever survives being born before 22 weeks, however. And those MPs who want to put the abortion limit down to 13 weeks certainly have other motives than uncertainty about when viability is possible.

[colinmom71]

8. I get so annoyed when abortion is tied to preemies...

They are completely separate issues. These days, the majority of women who seek abortions between 18 - 24 weeks are doing so because they've been given the terrible news that their baby has a serious chromosomal disorder. Parents who elect to save a prematurely born baby are doing so because the child is wanted and welcomed into their family.

My son was born the day I hit 24 weeks and he weighed just a few grams less than the baby in this article. Based just on the scant info there, this baby is almost certainly going to have serious developmental issues and these parents need to focus on preparing for this eventuality rather than satiating the curiosity of the press and "fetus activists". My son had a relatively easy NICU experience (just over 4 months in hospital with no serious complications common to preemies) and he has severe and life-long disabilities. The only result from further restricting abortion laws will be more disabled kids....

[cynatnite]

18. Well said! n/t

[BlueIris]

23. Kick. Oh, wait, we can't kick even BRILLIANT individual posts. nt

[hyphenate]

9. Okay

I don't see that as a victory to anti-choice people. First of all, it was not in the U.S. which does make it a technicality that it could make the law changed here in the U.S.. Second of all, what's the big deal? Yes, the baby got lots of medical care and beat the odds, but isn't that the question? How good is the quality of life going to be for this child? By the news articles, it's apparent that the baby is going to have long term medical problems, with some mental retardation as well as physical problems for the rest of her life. Anyone who proclaims that the abortion age limit should be reviewed and lowered to accommodate for babies like this is kidding themselves. It stands to reason, in my book, that the whole reason most of us support choice is evident in this case: some children can have all the support they need in a family, and some won't. But it's still got to be our choice, and not the choice of politicians or ministers, or anyone else, for that matter.

Having a high-risk birth such as this doesn't prove anything one way or the other, only that this family has enough medical resources and familial support to try and raise a child with severe handicaps. Most of us don't have that kind of choice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. I teach special ed and most of my kids were premature babies

Several weighed barely more than a pound at birth.

One thing that is always left out of these miracle baby stories is that they often have lifelong disabilities. I am not saying they should never have been born but it's wrong to paint a picture of happy normal children who just happened to be born early or small.

[lightningandsnow]

19. I'm totally pro choice, but could people quit saying that it's better to not exist than be disabled?

Because, you know, I find it a little offensive when people would rather be dead than be me.

[Hekate]

21. It's not about being you, it's about preemies with brain bleeds that leave them with...

...sometimes quite devastating and lifelong disabilities that are incompatible with their mother ever having a separate life of her own. The media seldom touches on this--all they want to focus on is the "miracle" of Baby X surviving its mother's miscarriage and being sent home with its own tiny ventilator after nearly a year in the hospital.

Preemies are often desperately-wanted babies -- this has nothing to do with abortion. Premature births are on the rise in this country and we really don't know why, although I suspect we have hit a tipping point in environmental and in-home pollution. Some do just fine after a bumpy start, especially if they are at 7 month's plus gestation. Others, especially the micro-preemies, do not fare so well.

As for disabilities and abortion -- what a firestorm of judgmental criticism was ignited here by the Alaska governor's decision to give birth to a child she knew had Down's Syndrome. It was disheartening, to say the least.

Hekate

[Iris]

22. nicely put, Hekate. And I might add that a naturally occuring disability is one thing,

but a lifetime of suffering brought on by doctors trying to push the envelope without regard for quality of life issues for mother or child is just wrong and I don't think families should be put in a position of supporting medical research by sacrificing their whole lives.

[colinmom71]

24. I would be thrilled if my son were like you...

You can coherently communicate and participate in your own life. I'm also glad you're alive and here in this world. I'm sincerely sorry if my above message made you feel as though I was advocating such a mind set as that is not my intent at all... I'm grateful my son survived but it has been a very difficult road to navigate in parenting a child who is non-verbal, blind, deaf, and has numerous other physical issues that essentially make him an infant in a 12 year old's body. (Though I must confess that his only-child syndrome is my fault! ;) )

It's not about thinking that people are better off dead than disabled. It's about whether a parent-to-be feels they can handle the emotional and physical toll of parenting a special needs child. Now, to be fair, my perspective is that of a parent who's dealing with the higher needs spectrum of disability so I do tend to hyper-focus on that as the typical special needs kid that one would expect from premature birth or a severe chromosomal disorder. Not everyone can handle the stress that entails. And then there are the financial stressors that strike parents of special needs kids.

I've had to be a stay-at-home mom because my son's needs are so demanding, and one income living can be difficult, if not impossible, for a lot of families. We've been fairly lucky in that I've been able to devote time to researching what public services are appropriate for him. We also have dual health insurance and Medicaid coverage for our son, which is rare for a lot of families in our position. Though the state of Georgia never informed us that he was switched onto the Deeming Waiver program when we no longer qualified for SSDI. The children's hospital told us about his Medicaid status when my son had to have a couple of surgeries a few years ago. But our ignorance of his Medicaid status meant there was one less waiver qualifier to have to spend state money towards! Grrr...

Sorry, I'm rambling on. I just wanted to clarify my message from above and to let you know that no, I would never want to be dead instead of be like you or like my son. The world is a better place for both of you being here....

[lightningandsnow]

25. I wasn't referring to you at all!

You put that very well. Thank you. I just get frustrated with people's attitudes, sometimes, you know?

[panzerfaust]

28. A society is judged by how it treats it's most unfortunate members

I do not recall who said that, but many of us believe it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

26. The important date is sentience, not viability.

Viability is entirely irrelevant to the abortion debate - I would still oppose third-trimester abortion on demand even if babies were inviable until naturally born, and I *will* still support first and second trimester abortion on demand even when (as seems likely someday) foetus or zygotes are viable from the moment the sperm meets the egg.

The important date is the point (or rate, if it's not an on/off process, as seems likely) at which the foetus becomes self-aware; before that it's just a bundle of cells; after that it's a person whose rights, while still subordinate to the mother's (abortion should be legal right up to birth in cases of e.g. medical emergency), at least need to be considered.

I believe this takes place around about 24 weeks.

[panzerfaust]

27. Neonatal Gestation Limit of Survival

A recent study by Field published in the British Medical Journal shows that survival for less than 24 weeks of gestation has not changed (improved) since the 1990's, though survival for those born at 24 weeks and above has improved.

Survival at 23 weeks was 18%, at 22 weeks (and below) 0%