Language, people, please

[Perry Mason]

I gather most people don't think of it in this way when they are posting, but once you post something on this or any website, it is there forever for everyone to see.

I have been pleased in the past to use The Democratic Underground as one of several examples to show my grandchildren grassroots democracy in action, a sort of cyber town-hall meeting in which anybody anywhere is free to comment and offer their opinions. (Of course, I am presently using it to show them how people become embroiled in their emotions, resort to name calling, and thereby abandon all hope of intelligent discourse, also a valuable lesson).

I am not anybody's censor, I abhor censorship, but you must concede that it is a bit disturbing to be on the DU with young people and see the unbelievable number of posts using the F word in their title.

My grandmother used to say if you needed to swear to make your point, it was an indication that your vocabulary needed some work.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

1. Ain't that the fucking truth.

[driver8]

48. Hey -- I was thinking the other day, "Where in the fuck is Starbucks Anarchist?"

Glad to see that you are still alive and kicking!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

58. GD:P has taken up all my Lounge time.

:hi:

[driver8]

61. You are a brave man!!

I pop in there once in awhile, but that place is too crazy for me!!

:hi:

[DavidDvorkin]

2. Did your grandmother always speak in cliches?

[Kajsa]

91. That was uncalled for.

;(

[DavidDvorkin]

93. Not in my opinion.

[Kajsa]

104. Bulletin- many of those adages we got from

our grandparents became
cliches later on.

-- not the other way around.

Jeez!

[DavidDvorkin]

105. That one is a contemporary cliche, I think

Dreamed up by people who are given the vapors by profanities.

[Kajsa]

119. No, I've heard it for a long time.

I swear occasionally myself, but I must agree
with her.

It takes talent to come up with the right word in a phrase.

Sometimes a swear word drives the point home.
Other times, using it shows lack of creativity
and yes, a very limited vocabulary.

[DavidDvorkin]

120. Okay, it's old. It's still foolish and shallow.

Age doesn't imbue a cliche with profundity.

[Kajsa]

121. I disagree.

It's neither foolish nor shallow and my previous post
explains why.

[bryant69]

3. This should be entertaining

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[SCantiGOP]

4. Agreed

I have an 11 year old who is becoming quite politcally aware, and I wouldn't direct her here. By the way, the quote from your grandmother was originally from Mark Twain, something along the lines of "profanity is a sign of a limited vocabulary."

[YOY]

9. I've often wondered what Twain would think of people who make up words

Along the lines of Don King or the Chimperator...

Freedomifying the people of Eye-Rack!

[orleans]

112. of course you wouldn't direct an 11 year old here

regardless of the language

i would think most everything here would be over her head.

my daughter was sixteen when i came to du. she doesn't post here, but i talk about a lot of posts that i read. there is still plenty that i have to explain, that she doesn't quite "get" or follow. she's twenty.

[orleans]

116. came up w/this idea while reading this thread

brainstorming: if your daughter has some friends who are also becoming politically aware and interested (and their parents wouldn't kill you for trying to turn their babies into "democrats"). a political message board for kids is an intersting idea.

i would have no clue as to how to go about starting one (you might ask skinner?) but i think it's a really cool idea. you could do a lot of diverse/fun things with it--have a history section, a breaking news section, a section about laws that directly impact kids, a section on what kids can do to create change (political activism), and a "playground" (ala lounge), etc.

at 11 and 12 my daughter was very disinterested in politics. but if yours is interested--and you have the know-how--maybe you could start up a place for kids? (junior underground? democratic kids?)

just an idea.

[Radical Activist]

5. No. I'm an adult and have no interest in making my world revolve around children.

I don't feel obligated to change every adult public space into a place for children because someone else made the choice to have them.

[wtmusic]

12. True, if the only world is your world

Seems if you care about what the world will be like when you're gone, you might also care about how kids might perceive the validity of your POV.

IMO.

[Radical Activist]

16. I'm not interested in proving my POV to children either.

I'm not asking others to change their behavior. Its those who want everyone to accommodate their behavior down to the level of a child who seem to think their world is the only one. I can do plenty for future generations without turning the world into a playground.

[wtmusic]

20. Then anything you accomplish dies when you do

You can't do anything to help future generations if the people living then disagree with you. It's back to square one.

[Radical Activist]

25. Everything I do dies because I write fuck on DU?

heh

[wtmusic]

28. No, because you aren't interested in proving your POV to kids.

But nice try. :eyes:

[Radical Activist]

38. Going to a school or place for children

to educate them, not "prove" myself, is fine. That doesn't mean DU and the whole world needs to be changed into a school grounds.

[eShirl]

96. hogwash

but nice try

not

[orleans]

113. LOL! LOL! LOL!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jamastiene]

39. People can disagree with you whether you use the word, "Fuck" or not.

What kind of twisted logic are you using?

[Horse with no Name]

82. or maybe if we are lucky

we can self-police ourselves to the standards of the RW christianists. Oh please let them approve of us, jeebus!

[Kajsa]

92. Excuse me?

Refraining from using certain swear words is
" turning the world into a playground" ?!?!

-in what parallel universe?

[Jamastiene]

26. Agreed.

There are tons of software options for parents who want to protect their children. I didn't drop the nickel. I'm not raising someone else's child. Let them use the child safe software if they are THAT concerned.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

36. However, your use of language gives everyone,

adults included, an impression of your character and intellect. Perhaps it doesn't bother you that the use of words like the Old Dutch word for human mating is used so often, but to other adults it does amount to a bit of a turn off.

[ellie]

40. Thank you

[Fox Mulder]

68. Amen!

Thank you!

[Le Taz Hot]

84. You have my vote

for Best Response. And for those above who accuse those of us who use colorful language of having a limited vocabulary, I've been bilingual for years: Street and Academia. I happen to be fluent in both and I choose which I want to use and when.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. My preferred quote is Henry Drummon, in Inherit the Wind:

"I don't swear for the hell of it. Language is a poor enough means of communication. We've got to use all the words we've got. Besides, there are damn few words anybody understands."

[IndyOp]

7. Vocabulary and content. A thread with poor quality content is pitiful no matter

how K&R's it gets.

:(

[City Lights]

8. ...

:popcorn:

[Solly Mack]

10. Fornication Under Consent of the King this

[sofa king]

14. Oh yeah? Well pluck yew!

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980904.html

P.S., I love your handle, Solly.

[Solly Mack]

18. I'm rather fond of yours too

[sofa king]

27. Perhaps we were separated at birth!

Were you also immaculately conceived?

[Solly Mack]

29. I'm so fucking immaculate I squeak

[YOY]

15. Solly, I am sure you know this, but that's not where it comes from

It's actually from German "to strike/hit".

[Solly Mack]

22. YOY, I am sure you know this, but it was a joke

:)

[YOY]

24. Just being a semi-smart ass like usual

:silly:

[Jamastiene]

42. Why only semi?

Why be half assed at being a smart ass? :P

[YOY]

44. Honestly speaking, sheer lack of talent!

n/t

[Harry Monroe]

47. I thought the origin of the word came from the phrase "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge"

[Solly Mack]

51. I was making a joke using one of the various phrases

often attributed as the origin of the word fuck....and not making an assertion as to the etymology of the word.

That said - No. The word fuck is believed to have Germanic origins.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. I spent many years trying not to use the 'f-word' and trying to get my, then, teen aged son to stop ...

using it. That was in the 1980's. Since that time, the word has become common. Just sit near a group of 14 yr. olds in any restaurant and listen to their conversations. You can't go to the mall and not hear 'f-ing this' or 'f**k that'. So, when Bush was selected and I came to DU, I no longer see a need to curb use of the word.

[Jamastiene]

43. Exactly. He induces a stream of those types of words

in even the mostly saintly among us. I fear the OP is asking the impossible.

[lame54]

13. Fuckin' Eh

[Warpy]

17. Nothing will destroy an adult discussion group faster

than prissy language police who whine and nitpick over things every adult has a right to say but which they don't want to hear children saying--although I guarantee those children do say them when they're out of earshot.

Adults don't have a divinely given right to go through life being unoffended by other people's language or beliefs. Adults don't have a divinely given right to insist all adult places become friendly to four year olds.

Four year olds would be bored stiff by the content on DU. Twelve year olds might be mildly interested in it if they're smart and politically aware twelve year olds, but I guarantee all to language police that they not only know the worst of the language used here, they know what it means, too.

Adults drop the F bomb when they're upset and have a perfect right to do so. It's silly to go through life being offended by gutter words when they're being used to describe the truly obscene, the politics of the last 40 years.

[Donnachaidh]

30. and, parents who make a big deal about *f* words

are just making an envelope that their children will be almost required to push.

We didn't censor our language with our kid. What we did was explain that cuss words are JUST words, used in (what we thought) were appropriate circumstances. These words only become BAD if you allow it. George Carlin did a famous bit about cuss words, which I cannot remember (brainfart in progress).

The upshot? My kid has a reputation for NOT using cusswords unless called for. His understanding of their appropriateness is what we as parents wanted to instill. Now his fellow students at high school use the *F* word constantly. And the vast majority of them do it (yes,I've asked them myself) because their parents *didn't like it*.

language police cause more problems than they think. :shrug:

[Dogtown]

49. Exactly, Warpy

Critique my comments and opinions,
but don't waste bandwidth preaching to me about my prose.

:mad:

[Perry Mason]

71. "adult discussion"...?

I must argue that there is little "adult discussion" on this board anymore, and whatever killed it, it happened months before I commented on the pervasive use of gratuitous profanity.

As for "prissy language police", well, you don't know me.

You all go ahead and defend your right to cuss and be lousy role models and argue over Hillary and Obama while the Republicans steal another election.

[Warpy]

73. Obviously you've mistaken me for someone who gives

a rip about being a role model for your children. That's your job.

As for adult discussion, I suggest you stop trying to police everybody else and read the board, all of it, and you'll find plenty of it.

[Jim__]

19. If you want to show them grassroots democracy in action ...

... people curse.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Politely put, thank you. But no.

Cheers.

[Coyote_Bandit]

23. Maybe

foul language is an opportunity to teach the kiddies about freedom of speech? Or tolerance? Or anger management? Or respect for others even when one might find their behavior offensive?

Or maybe it presents an opportunity to show more effective ways to present one's own argument?

Nevermind the fact that some of the most profane speech I have ever heard came out the the mouth of a six year old. If you think kids haven't heard crude speech you are kidding yourself. The very Baptist two years old preacher's daughter has even been overheard to say "damn it" much to her mother's embarassment.

Maybe the problem isn't profanity. Maybe the problem is that adults don't know how to talk about profanity. Just a thought.

[El Supremo]

31. Foul language doesn't have the effect it used to have. It is so overused.

Used to be it really got attention. Now everybody talks that way. We've ruined the language.:(

[Mrs. Overall]

32. Perry? Perry? Aren't you going to cross-examine anyone?

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[stubtoe]

57. Damned Grovelbot - made me donate!

[Midlodemocrat]

34. I'll pass. They're just words, dude. My kids learned them all long ago.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

35. Agreed absolutely!

I was also taught that the use of swear words showed a lack of imagination and creativity. Personally, I'd like to see more use of words like "pusillanimous" in titles. My grandfather taught me that word and its meaning when I was 7, and I've found it quite effective when describing despicable people like Republicans.

[orleans]

114. okay--i give up. what does pusillanimous mean? n/t

[blondie58]

37. I agree with you, Perry Mason

although I don't think that it will change anything. But a big welcome to DU!

[slay]

41. I fucking hear ya

but I respectfully disagree. I leave it up to whoever posts to decide on what language he or she wishes to use. I for one am not about to let anyone else tell me the combination of the letters F, U, C, and K make up a "bad" or "curse" word. You give those words power by accepting the belief that for some reason those words are bad. They are not, and are just another way used to control people. IMO.

[Jamastiene]

45. Very well said. n/t

[Breeze54]

46. If you want democracy in action, go to C-Span and watch the Senate & the House LIVE!

http://www.c-span.org/

This is a place for adults. Since when are "little" children supposed to be reading
on an adult messageboard? If you want censorship, start your own messageboard. :eyes:

'Uses of the Word Fuck - A Lecture'
http://thetravisty.com/Just_Funny/wma/Uses_of_the_Word_Fuck.htm

Unnecessary Censorship
http://thetravisty.com/Unnecessary_Censorship.php

:popcorn:

[Perry Mason]

50. Way to be a role model, thanks.

[orleans]

115. what makes you think we're here to be "role models?"

some of us do that every day, at work and around the house.

take me, for example.

and when i come here i cut loose. this is a place where i can let my hair down, relax and (so i thought) be among friends instead of young children.

you know, i wouldn't take a kid into a bar either.

i read someone suggesting you start your own message board if you want to police it.

[Iggo]

52. Oh, fuck! You're right!

Anyone is free to comment and offer his/her opinion.

Ain't freedom fucking grand?

:hi:

[Evoman]

53. If children aren't safe in a political discussion forum, WHERE ARE THEY SAFE???!!!

:cry:

But really...since when has every space designed for adults become a place for children. It sucks. Child-obssesed people ruin everything that is fun.

[Book Lover]

54. I will concede that *you* are disturbed by it

And I will go so far as to conjecture that your grandchildren don't care.

[Jamastiene]

55. WARNING: This post may be offensive to children.

First off, I want to welcome you to DU. :hi:

Just so you know, it states in the rules here that if you are easily offended, that you will most likely not feel entirely comfortable here.

4. Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements. The moderators and administrators work very hard to enforce some minimal standards regarding what content is appropriate. But please remember that this is a large and diverse community that includes a broad range of opinion. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.

I have thought about your original post (OP, for short) and this is the best logical conclusion I can offer:

Just for the record, the word, "fuck," is in the Rules for DU.

Do not hurl insults at other individual members of this message board. Do not tell someone, "shut up," "screw you," "fuck off," "in your face," or some other insult.

While it says not to say those things as an insult toward individual members, it does not say not to say the word, "fuck," by itself. I can't say those things above to you or anyone else, but I can say "Fuck beer. I don't like it." all day long. Granted, I will have beer lovers furious with me and piling on me all day long if I continue to say it all day long. Beer is an inanimate object, which means it's not against the rules to say "Fuck beer."

While there is a rule about typing in all capital letters, it is not against the rules to type in all capital letters IF you are doing so to add emphasis or IF you want to convey to the rest of DU that you are, in fact, yelling. For instance, I can say "CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!" because it is not an insult to other members. It would merely show my disdain for some action the current figurehead who calls himself a president has taken, as an example. I can even say "OH FUCK!!! ANOTHER TORNADO WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED!!!" to convey that I am terrified of tornadoes. I would be screaming that in real life, and often do, so typing it in all caps in that instance would NOT be against the rules.

Here is a link to a more in-depth explanation of the rules.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

I read them carefully recently at the insistence of administrators. That exercise was a blessing in disguise. I learned a lot from reading them.

I do understand that you want to protect your child, but please realize that it would be best if you could find a way to do so without doing it at the expense of the rest of the adults here.

If I am not mistaken, there are programs that you can purchase, and in some cases, obtain for free on the internet, that will block content you feel is inappropriate for your child to view. If you were to try that option, you could teach your child a somewhat sheltered and controlled lesson in politics at your discretion. This would appease you and at the same time not step on any toes, so to speak, of members of this forum.

I do hope this suggestion solves your problem. I am sure there are some here, who have more experience with protecting children from reality in the world and have used such software. I have merely heard of the software and what it can do, but I do know that there is software out there that can do exactly what you are asking us to do for you. Isn't technology great? If we harness its potential and let it do the hard work for us, it can make life better for us. This frees time for us to do other things with a feeling of safety and comfort that children are not learning the cold, hard reality of the brutal world of politics before they have learned the basics.

Considering that you have a problem with cuss words and harshness, I will offer a bit of advice:
For the love of God and all that is Holy, keep your child out of General Discussion: Primaries, better known as GD: P.

There is language in that forum that would burn the ears of the most hardened sailor imaginable. The Devil, himself, will not step hoof in that forum for fear that one of those people, who inhabit that forum, will take his job in Hell if they smell his weakness. Comparisons have been made to a pack of rabid wolves turning on their own pack and destroying one of their own. If GD: P was a building, the health department would have long ago condemned it for demolition. So consider yourself warned of that general fact.

More specifically, there are also depictions (caricatures) of Senator Hillary Clinton tied to a stake with fire underneath her. There are also open wishes to "euthanize" Senator Clinton based on the recent news of a racing horse named Eight Belles, the horse that was recently euthanised after breaking its legs in a horse race.

There was also, as recently as soon as approximately one month ago, a reference to violence against Senator Clinton in the form of a threat that if she continues her campaign until the convention, at least one person there hopes that she will be beheaded.

Particularly, if you are offended by the word, "Fuck," GD: P will definitely offend you as there are currently 6,323 threads with the phrase, "FUCK Hilliary Clinton!" in the subject line, followed by diatribes that many times include the words, "Bitch," "Cunt," "Whore," and/or other rude slurs against women. If you want to protect your child from that sort of thing, and some parents do, GD: P can be blocked in your options here at DU.

[Duke Newcombe]

65. Jamastiene: excellent, well thought out and reasonable reply.

You rock! :yourock:

Go Wildcards!

Duke

[Jamastiene]

76. Thank you kindly.

I thought it was the best Welcome post I could make, so that the OP can take steps for the child to learn about politics but not have to see the really rough stuff. I'm 37 years old and I'll admit, sometimes, the really rough stuff even :scared: me. :wow:

[ColbertWatcher]

79. Thank you for your post.

It was very informative and it inspired me to take another good look at the guidelines.

There was something I had a question about, but was not addressed in the page you liked to: and that question has to do with images that may be considered NSFW (not safe for work).

The rules do not specifically mention any restrictions on pornographic images!

They hint at "disruptive" content is this supposed to cover nudity?

I would hate to see this forum turn into 4chan.

Not that there's anything wrong with 4chan (go ANONYMOUS!)



But, there is a time and place for that kind of stuff, and I would hope it isn't on DU.

I am hoping the rules block NSFW images because that may limit the number of people participating in the discussions here.

[Jamastiene]

87. Pornographic images are not allowed.

It is covered under the rules, although it doesn't say it directly.

"You are permitted to discuss political or social issues relating to human sexuality, provided that you exercise the appropriate level of maturity, sensitivity, and discretion. Topics about sex are not permitted in the DU Lounge, although we may occasionally make an exception for articles posted from mainstream news sources.

Do not post messages about bodily functions."

In other words, if the topic is kept at a mature level of discussion and from a mainstream news source (not likely to contain actual pornographic images), then it can be discussed, although the tolerance for those type of discussions (again with no pornographic images, only discussion) seems low in my experience here so far.

I'd say DU is SFW, as opposed to NSFW, when it comes to pornographic images. You are not likely to see porn here for very long, because it will be deleted.

[ColbertWatcher]

90. OK. Thank you. n/t

[Beetwasher]

85. Why Do You Hate Beer? What The Fuck Is Wrong W/ You?

I'm offended by your post. :evilgrin: (just kidding, of course!)

[ismnotwasm]

56. Hmm

I actually have an excellent vocabulary, and I love to swear. In fact, I love words in general. I pick the time and place for the way I express myself. Swear words are short cuts in communication especially on the internet, where facial expression and body language can't be seen.

But I take your point, since I used the same argument with my own kids about swearing and tried to teach them to love words. My grandson, who recently said "shit" if front of his mother now knows several alternatives. He thought it was hilarious.

[Javaman]

59. I love these types of posts...

that try to bring a sense of morality and ethics to an otherwise moral-less and ethic-less world.

Have fun.

oh BTW fuck, fuck, fuck.

:)

[JNelson6563]

60. But swearing shows I really mean it!!

And it shows I'm really bad-ass or smart or powerful....

Most of all, it shows how grown up I really am.

I agree with you, some of the subject lines of late have relaly been over the top. Sometimes I feel like I am in the high shcool cafeteria where everyone is trying to demonstrate how tough, smart and powerful they are by saying "fuck" at every opportunity.

Julie

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. I agree, and I'm a habitual offender.

rancor is not something that is in short supply.

Vulgarity is occasionally appropriate. Generally, not.

[flvegan]

63. Not this shit again.

Oops, sorry for saying "shit". Ah shit, I said "shit" again. Sorry.

[gatorboy]

64. Haha! You fucking did it again.

Oh shit, now I'm doing it.

Fuck it, we'll do it LIVE!!!!

[ProgressiveFool]

66. Oh come on, this is Democratic Underground, not Democratic Playground

There is nothing more futile than trying to keep kids from learning so-called bad words. Let's say, hypothetically, that you met an 18 year old, you let the f-word slip, and they didn't know what you meant. What would you think? It's just not normal.

The Bad Word Police are just in it to make themselves feel better for being virtuous.

[MilesColtrane]

67. Egads! Think of the children!

Forsooth, people should not just type any goldang thing they want to, for cripes sake.
What the Sam Hill is wrong with those sons of guns? By Jove, I could not give a shuck for those ill mannered whelps.

[SidDithers]

69. That's how adults often talk with each other....

especially when they're passionate about the topics of discussion.

Should we also self-censor the images that we post, in case some 10 year-old, or a grandmother with delicate sensibilities, should stumble upon pics of casualties in Iraq?

It's not a big step from determining acceptable modes of speech to determining acceptable topics of speech.

So, as Will put it so well upthread, politely, no.

Sid

[Fox Mulder]

70. No fucking way.

[FredScuttle]

72. You know what my grandmother used to say to me?

GET THE FUCK OFF MY GODDAMN LAWN!

[tjwash]

74. As my grampa used to say...

..."I'm gonna go upstairs and fuck your grandmother"

[tom_paine]

78. That's one cool Grampa.

My father, may he rest in peace used to say, "You and your friends get the fuck out of my house."

Sadly, he often had very good reasons to say that, when I was a youth.

Sorry, Pop.

[Horse with no Name]

83. I'm a FUCKING GRANDMA

and I fucking approve!:thumbsup:

[checks-n-balances]

75. Now we're finding out that Billo, underneath that exterior of his

actually sounds just like us, or rather we just sound like him..!

[REP]

77. Why must I concede it's disturbing? Oh, wait, I don't.

If you're really a grandmother, than you're more than old enough to know better. You should also be old enough to have gotten over any prissiness in typing the word "fuck."

My grandmother had a saying, too, about people like you - "As though butter wouldn't melt in her mouth."

[Eurobabe]

80. DU is NOT the place to bring children

Are you fucking nuts??

Many people who have come here are damaged for life. I suggest taking them to a real live town hall somewhere, NOT an internet forum. :hi:

If I had grandkids, I sure as hell wouldn't let them on DU.

[Horse with no Name]

81. I really don't give a fuck

Are you the self-appointed net nanny?
And no, you REALLY don't abhor censorship.
It's kind of like saying ..."I'm not racist BUT..."

[spanone]

86. grow up

[Ikonoklast]

88. I happen to agree with you about the 'F' word.

Now piss off.

[IsItJustMe]

89. I disagree and agree with Joe Biden. Sometimes a good cuss word sums it all up. Bull shit is bull

shit and stands on it's own accord.

[lunatica]

94. With utmost respect children not of school age might not know the word

But the reality is that children learn those words in school and from their classmates even if their parents are very careful of what language they use around their kids. If you don't believe me go to a school and just hang out quietly around groups of perfectly normal kids and listen to them speak.

Anyone too young for that is too young for DU anyway. Perhaps one more thing to teach the kids is that it's best to think of using a valid vocabulary in place of using bad language. I speak from experience. With two boys what I did was tell them that they were not to use that language in front of adults and I spelled out what their punishment would be if I received a call from school because they used profanity. I think that gives them the parentally sanctioned freedom to express themselves in any way they wish to among their friends, yet sets the rules of decency in society.

[countryjake]

95. My grandma swore like a truck driver...

and so does my ninety year old mother, who taught me how to read, write, and retain an enormous vocabulary before I ever entered a schoolhouse.

Intelligent discourse can sometimes be sparked by the mere expression of deep, heartfelt emotion, which, depending on the demeanor of the person speaking, comes out in many different ways. If you use the grassroots as an example for your little ones, you are bound to encounter "the base", the common talk of a multitude of folk in this nation, which is neither inferior nor ignorant.

Try to teach your young not to judge a book by its cover.

[BlooInBloo]

98. It's funny when people bemoaning restricted vocabularies try to restrict people's vocabulary.

Fucking ironic.

[BlooInBloo]

97. Fuck it! We'll do it live!

http://www.youtube.com/v/5j2YDq6FkVE&hl=en

[lunatica]

99. For God's sake don't let your kids read Catcher in The Rye!!!!!

:nuke:

There's some real bombshells in there!

[undeterred]

100. I don't like it either, and its totally overused.

[seemslikeadream]

101. I just use this

[EvolveOrConvolve]

102. Boy, you're gonna be a popular guy

37 posts and you're already nagging the community about its language.

If you want to teach your grandchildren about the REAL world, feel free to send them over to DU. Just don't expect us to tiptoe around them while they're here.

FWIW, I taught my son at a young age how to cuss. He's now 11, but is a master of the F-Bomb. I also taught him the appropriate time and place for cussing. He doesn't even cuss outside the house at all, and I rarely hear him cussing at all any more. When you don't restrict something, it quickly becomes boring for a child.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - FUCK FUCK FUCK!

[Zhade]

103. Sorry, too many REAL problems in the world to give a fuck about your nanny vanity demands.

NT!

[PeaceNikki]

106. I recommend you watch the documentary called "Fuck".

For real. It's a great film.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486585/
This challenging and provocative documentary takes a look on all sides of the infamous F-word. Its taboo,obscene and controversial, yet somehow seems to permeate every single aspect of our culture-from Hollywood, to the schoolyard to the Senate floor in Washington D.C. It's the word at the very center of the debate on Free Speech - and everyone seems to have an opinion. FUCK will exam how the word is impacting our world today thru interviews, film and television clips, music, and original animation by Oscar nominee Bill Plympton. Scholars and linguists will examine the long history of fuck. Comedians, actors, and writers who have charted and popularized the upward course of fuck will be heard from, often while defending the Constitutional Right of Free Speech, all the way to the Supreme Court. FUCK will visit with those who actually fuck for a living. We'll hear from advocates who oppose fuck and it's infringement into our everyday lives. We'll watch some of the most famous and infamous film and television clips that feature fuck, we'll hear some of the most famous fucks ever uttered and we'll feel the impact of fuck on our everyday lives.

Really... what makes some words so much more taboo than others? They're just words...

[TexasObserver]

107. Profanity is the crutch of ignorant motherfuckers.

I heard somewhere, not sure if it's true.

I don't favor all the thread titles with FUCK in them, but that's what Hide Threads feature is for.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

108. Then there's creative profanity.

There are plenty of insults that are not profane, but quite descriptive.

Bugger, trollop, strumpet, wanker, rectum, troglodyte.

And then you can always swear in foreign languages creatively.

"Figlio da putana!"

"Mierda"

[TexasObserver]

110. I don't mind profanity, if it fits and serves a purpose.

Most of the time it is used in the title to a thread, it doesn't rise to that level. But when it does, great.

[Vickers]

109. You know, you're right...

...you're not anyone's censor.

FTR, my grandmother thought that she had a baby right at the end of here life, and "can't nurse the damn thing because of all my nipple hair."

Hope this helps.

[Common Sense Party]

111. You're dreaming if you think children will benefit by being here.

Children are often better behaved than the motley crew assembled in GD-P, and their arguments make better sense.

Some "adults" here CANNOT say anything without dropping the F-bomb. They are biologically incapable of expressing themselves without profanity. Some of them think, I surmise, that it makes them sound cool, or edgy, or mature.

[Jed Dilligan]

117. First off, your kid should not be on any online networking site

without your supervision. So you should have a lot of control over where they surf here.

Second, why not start a Child-Friendly DU Group? It's not hard to get one going?

Third, if you want them to experience the rough-and-tumble of the Big Forums rather than the day by day pace of a group, you are never going to avoid profanity completely. But you can, before letting them on, build up an ignore list of the most serial swearers (I would make it depending on the week) and then, just before they get on, use hide thread to cover up all the offensive ones. They might still get the occasional bad word, but if they are old enough to follow politics they are already hearing those words--and deciding to use them or not. Bad examples often teach better than good ones.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

118. I suggest that you find another place to teach your grandchildren these lessons if you don't wish

them to be exposed to language that you find offensive. One person's opinion of what is offensive is another's freedom of expression.

I opt for freedom of expression.

As to your first paragraph

"I gather most people don't think of it in this way when they are posting, but once you post something on this or any website, it is there forever for everyone to see."

This statement would perhaps have more impact on the readers of this thread if you used your real name. I highly doubt that it is really Perry Mason. Most of us use screen names and really don't care that what we write here will follow us for eternity.

[Stinky The Clown]

122. I would never use such fucking language.

Never.

[Batgirl]

123. I also hate to see people wallowing in their own verbal filth on the Internet

to the point where some days it becomes quite nerve-wracking to click away from the Disney page.

It's good though that you're making lemonade out of the unfortunate situation at DU by using it to show young children "how people become embroiled in their emotions, resort to name calling, and thereby abandon all hope of intelligent discourse." I remember being a young child and not abandoning all hope of intelligent discourse until about midway through third grade. But those were more innocent times, before there was an Internet.

[AngryOldDem]

124. Perry, do your grandkids have My Space or Face Book accounts?

If so, you might want to share this sentence from your post with them:

<<I gather most people don't think of it in this way when they are posting, but once you post something on this or any website, it is there forever for everyone to see.<<

I freely admit that I have been fast and loose with the eff-word here in my day. But I have to say that I have seen more objectionable, and more potentially damaging, words and images by looking over my daughter's shoulder as she peruses her friends' accounts on these sites than I think I have ever seen here, where people post anonymously. That is the bigger danger that kiddies need to be warned away from, IMHO.

You either learn to deal with the way people express themselves here, or you don't. Like Charles Barkley, we don't claim or pretend to be anybody's role model, and if some continue to labor under that delusion, well, sorry.