I have given up on my Veterans' board...it is hopeless.

[driver8]

I belong to a Navy veterans' board on Yahoo. It is a group of guys who operated nuclear power plants on aircraft carriers, cruisers, and subs. All of the guys are pretty sharp cookies, but when it comes to politics and our country, they are rather narrow minded.

Most of the guys consider themselves republicans and love to bash liberals. There are a couple of "moderates" and one other guy who is somewhat liberal, but that's it. They love to post shit from right wing websites and sources, and when I post rebuttals I am ridiculed. My sources are "too liberal" or "not trustworthy" and then I am accused of not doing enough research. I know I won't change their opinions or make them see things my way, but I thought that maybe...maybe one of them would see how fucked up this country is because of the politicians that they have supported.


One thing that has been confirmed for me through my time on that forum is that most Republicans are only concerned about what the government can do for them -- not what the government can do for the country as a whole. The biggest concern by many of them was that the Dems were going to raise their taxes and do away with Bush's tax cuts for the rich. They have no compassion for those who are less fortunate than they are and consider all social programs to be some sort of "hand out."

Anyhow, I've had it. I'm sick of arguing until I'm blue in the face with people who don't want to listen to what I have to say. They live in their own little fantasy world and feel good about it. We'll see how they're feeling after November.

Fuck 'em.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. You said it exactly right

They want govt to help them and they don't care about anyone else.

I used to argue online with a guy who was on disability and railed about welfare, food stamps, section 8, you name it, he was against it. And he failed to see that he was on welfare too. LOL

[skipos]

2. What do they think about McCain's GI bill vs. Webb's? nt

[driver8]

4. I didn't even bring it up.

I was so sick and tired of arguing with them at that point.

[flashl]

3. Probably wish I hadn't asked but what do they think about the Winter Soldiers or Walter Reed? nt

[driver8]

5. Not Bush's fault, left wing propoganda...(Walter Reed).

Regarding the Winter Soldiers, we never discussed them. I had given up at that point.

[DainBramaged]

6. I commend you for your perseverance to this point

But it's time to move on. Those that live in caves will never understand rainbows.

Be well.

PS

Nuclear power-plants?? I am in awe.

[driver8]

20. It was an interesting time in my life, that's for sure!

These are pretty sharp guys which is why it was so frustrating that they wouldn't even consider what I was saying. We were taught in the Navy to question everything (which is why our guys were always in trouble...not too hip on the "military bearing" thing.) -- yet these guys seem to accept everything they are told by the right wing media pundits.

To be fair, it was mainly two guys who created all the problems for me...but most of them wouldn't piss on a liberal if he/she was on fire.

[Radical Activist]

7. One sign of a cult

is that they claim they are the only source for true information. That's one of the snares of talk radio. They convince people that any factual information that contradicts their crazy world view must be biased and wrong.

[driver8]

8. That is exactly what I was up against.

My main "nemesis" tried to use Rush Limbaugh's website as a source -- I basically laughed in his face! Still, he continued to ridicule any source for material that I used. I tried to avoid the "left leaning" sources, but it didn't matter. To them, all of the media is "liberal".

[Radical Activist]

9. You might find a site

that describes that aspect of cults and quote it as a goodbye. The talk radio mentality is destroying America.

[riverdeep]

17. Did they refer to CNN as the 'Clinton News Network'?

If so, then there is little hope for them.

[magellan]

10. Isn't that the essential difference between us?

Liberals see the future social benefits of helping to put as many possible on an upwardly mobile track.

Conservatives don't care about the future as long as they can hang onto what they've got, even as their short-sightedness causes the disintegration of society around them. THEN they whine. And they remain pathetically oblivious to their hand in it.

[arcadian]

11. Soon it will be them with their hands out.

See what they think about social programs then. Funny, the military in this country is the closest thing that we have to a welfare program. Sad really. Don't worry, there will be higer ups in the republican pecking order that will scorn them as being welfare queens when they are in the streets with their hands out.

[driver8]

12. I don't agree with your comment regarding the military being a

welfare program.

As a veteran, those in the military earn everything they get. It is a tough job and they are paid peanuts.

[arcadian]

14. Since I'm not a vet, you would condemn me to a life without healthcare?

Thanks. There is an entire cabinet in the executive branch devoted solely to the welfare of those in the military(DoD) and one for when they get out(Dept. Veterans Affairs). Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it so. How many have joined the military solely for economic reasons? Sure looks like welfare to me.

[driver8]

15. Of course not -- you deserve health care as much as anyone.

I never said that...how did you imply that based on my disagreeing with you?

Strange logic.

[flashl]

13. Did you know that there is a Military food stamp program?

Under the National Defense Authorization Act, beginning in May 2001, qualifying military service members could receive up to $500 a month with the then new family subsistence supplemental allowance (FSSA).

The program was created to make up military pay difference and the cost of living.

So, in a way, yes, the military are on welfare.

[AngryOldDem]

16. Sometimes, all you can do is walk away.

The truth will slap them in the face soon enough.

[riverdeep]

18. Military culture doesn't change easily.

It's entrenched in Republicanism, and maybe even eight years isn't enough time to change it. However, I recall reading about Stars and Stripes last year basically calling Bush out. So some things have changed.

[tkmorris]

19. You'd think they'd understand that all Americans are shipmates

But then, I recall from my own time in the Navy that it rarely works out that way. A two-tiered class system is institutionalized into every branch of the military after all.

Still, it should be simple to show that even the lowest on the totem pole are never left to fend for themselves. Even the lowest Seaman Apprentice is allowed in the chow hall, and is seen at Medical. No one goes without shelter. All are given the opportunity for advancement, based on merit.

It's no surprise that a group of people at the top of the totem pole are making the self-serving argument that they have no obligation to carry along the bottom dwellers. Such has always been the case and is simply human nature. Selfishness comes naturally. What little success I have had in dealing with such people usually results by appealing to their sense of noblesse oblige, reassuring them that they ARE in fact superior to their fellow citizens but with that superiority comes responsibility to those less capable. It's rather disgusting, but by equating their lofty opinions of themselves with the necessity to care for others it is possible to occasionally gain some concessions from them.