Father-Daughter Purity Balls

[laststeamtrain]

Dancing the Night Away, With a Higher Purpose
By NEELA BANERJEE

COLORADO SPRINGS — In their floor-length gowns, up-dos and tiaras, the 70 or so young women swept past two harpists and into a gilt-and-brocade dining room at the lavish Broadmoor Hotel, on the arms of their much older male companions.

The girls, ages early grade school to college, had come with their fathers, stepfathers and future fathers-in-law last Friday night to the ninth annual Father-Daughter Purity Ball. The first two hours of the gala passed like any somewhat awkward night out with parents, the men doing nearly all the talking and the girls struggling to cut their chicken.

But after dessert, the 63 men stood and read aloud a covenant “before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity.”

The gesture signaled that the fathers would guard their daughters from what evangelicals consider a profoundly corrosive “hook-up culture.” The evening, which alternated between homemade Christian rituals and giddy dancing, was a joyous public affirmation of the girls’ sexual abstinence until they wed.

Yet the graying men in the shadow of their glittering daughters were the true focus of the night. To ensure their daughters’ purity, they were asked to set an example and to hew to evangelical ideals in a society they say tempts them as much as it does their daughters...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/19/us/19purity.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
*

Thinking of recent events among certain religious groups, this kind of icks me out...

[C_U_L8R]

1. holy elektra complex

that's really creepy

[Echo In Light]

37. LOL ...agreed

[meow2u3]

2. What about the purity of their sons?

Why the sexist double standards? AFAIC, if she can't, he can't either.

[Fridays Child]

11. Thank you!

:thumbsup:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

21. When a father or son take their sexual purity seriously

the father and the son are mocked..

"I don't like the type of music he wants to sing. I don't like his fundy attitude. I don't like that nobody seems to mention how utterly gay he is. I don't understand why little girls like him. I don't like how they made a point to give Ruben the American Idol prize but then talk up Clay as a bigger winner because THEY gave him a bigger contract! I liked Ruben much more than Clay and thought that he was infinitely more talented. CLAY IS A CREEPY, VIRGIN FUNDY AND PROUD OF IT! Yuk, give me Ruben or Kelly any day." -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x516933

--

You are right, of course, that sometimes parents worry too much about their daughters at the expense of their sons but that does not mean when someone shows consistency they are spared a mocking..

[Dogtown]

45. Ok.

But now we're mocking *this*; hence your argument bears no fruit.

If *only* our mockery would silence fundamentalists, but then we wouldn't be having this repartee, would we?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

48. Excellent point..

Mine was merely that the mockery had *nothing* to do with the gender of the participants but rather with their religious beliefs. So the knee jerk calls of 'thats sexist' are somewhat misplaced..

[Dogtown]

50. I see

I think I did misread that, and you do have a point. Male children, likewise, are forcefed their sexual identities as well as females, mostly to their detriment.

And that is not restricted to fundamentalists.

I stand corrected.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

52. I suppose it depends on what you mean by gender identity..

Some could look at my home life and say the relationship I have with my wife models a set of gender identities to my kids (thats true of *any home* as we all are models for our kids) The girls try to act like mom and despite the fact I do keep toys that could be seen as 'boy' toys around generally the older one in not interested and the younger is still too young to care.

Ill never tell my daughter she has to be married, or what careers are for her. Ill never bottle neck her by discouraging certain toys. But I will talk to them (and any boys I may someday have) about sex, what it is, and the physical/emotional/spiritual aspects of it in hopes they refrain from sex until marriage.

To some here thats terrible behavior and I'm truly sorry it offends them but its not locking my girls in to be barefoot and pregnant through their 40's

[Dogtown]

54. Good parenting

I do not see that as terrible behavior; it's your obligation to pass on your knowledge of the complexities of human relationships to your children and to establish guideposts through the maze of puberty-laced emotions they are bound to face. Your route may differ from mine, as doubtless your experience has also, but who am I to judge?

That isn't what's going on at the gala in the OP, of course. *That* behavior smells of subconscious chattel issues.

EDIT: Check your PMs, please, Dadof

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

57. I was not there...

The description seems a bit weird and it could (or could not) be accurate.

The idea of a father taking his teenage daughter out to talk about sex and to try and discourage it until marriage is not freakish. Even the idea of a chastity ring is not out of line it is a symbol and while it holds no more power than say a wedding ring it can be rather meaningful for a daughter to know that a father really cares about her purity and not just her virginity!

If more fathers took an interest in the sexuality of their kids, stopped treating it like some unmentionable side effect of hormones the world would have far more kids with deep meaningful relationships with their parents and fewer dysfunctional relationships with sexual partners long before they are ready.

I was fortunate, my mother was very open in talking about sex with me, not just sex itself but also all the political issues around it. While I was taken out, at her request, of the sex ed class in school I was as knowledgeable about the biology of sex and more informed about the psychology and sociology of sex than my peers.

--

I don't have sons yet so I have not thought about how we will handle them will I address it? will my wife address it? I suppose it depends on who they bond closer to... but I do know our expectations will be no lower for them, they will have to learn how to honor a woman and themselves in relationships.

Its kind of sad that nowadays the concept of honoring your mate seems rather lost, we 'love' we 'cherish' but the honor does not seem to be there. Spouses don't talk in an honorific fashion to or about their mates. Men who abuse pornography are seen as AOK despite the psychological differences between loving your mate and fantasizing about a playmate. Fathers on TV are often cast as beer swilling selfish morons who have to be rescued from their folly every Wednesday at 8, 7 central. Wifes are cast prattling controlling and manipulative and that is reflective of what we are allowing relationships to become.

Oh well /rant...

[ikojo]

23. Sons are always held to a different standard

When a young guy beds down a lot of women he is said to be "sowing his wild oats." When a young woman beds down a lot of guys she is called a slut.

A friend of mine, who is more observant Jewishly than his father was, said his dad told him the following "gentile girls are for practice, Jewish girls are to marry." He said it made him sick to hear that. Thankfully he did not follow his dad's advice.

I find it creepy that a nine year old girl is attending a ball promising her daddy not to do something she's thought little about. Oy vey!! In the photo slideshow the NYT reporter did mention that most of the young people who have promised abstinence do have sex prior to marriage and are often at greater risk of STDs because they have not been taught about such thins. They've been taught to say no.

I have a niece who was raised not to have sex before marriage. No other education (even though she attended public school) she was told only not to have sex before marriage. She turned 18, moved out of the house and was pregnant for her 21st birthday, much to her chagrin. When I asked her why she wasn't taking the pill, she said she didn't want to have "that exam." I mentioned that since she was pregnant all sorts of people were going to be messing around "down there." Oy!

[LanternWaste]

53. We seemed to have "progressed" as a culture

"When a young woman beds down a lot of guys she is called a slut."

I really don't think that's the case anymore. We seemed to have "progressed" as a culture to the point in which promiscuity is held as the gold standard for both sexes.

[Bucky]

3. If their balls were all THAT pure, they wouldn't have daughters.

In the midst of our outrage at patriarchal intrusiveness, let's not get down on father-daughter dances in general. As a former Girl Scout troop assistant leader, I had a great time at father-daughter dances. They're a big part of a culture that promotes keeping families close together.

[closeupready]

38. Families that are THAT close are TOO close, IMO.

Makes me claustrophobic just thinking about it. :puke:

[lisa58]

4. I think it's great for parents to talk to both sons and daughters

about having real relationships as they mature and to have sex a topic they feel free to discuss as they are growing up, but a PROM?

[BrklynLib at work]

5. Really, really creepy.

:scared:

[JackintheGreen]

6. It is kinda icky

but as the father of a girl I can appreciate the sentiment behind it. Except that its precisely what all fathers hope to impart to their children. It isn't only wacky fundies that don't want their daughters to hook-up with jack-ass boys. I think the last paragraph you post is the most telling: the father's must set the example by what? Not jacking off to porn?

And teenage boys do suck. I was one, and I sucked. My brother sucked at that age too. My dad, my uncle and my father in law were also jackasses at that age. Just so long as the fundies don't take ownership of "good parenting".

What's that? They have? Oh.,..

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

25. The fathers example

is by honoring his wife (if present) or women in general. Many girls who have fathers that do not model how a mate should treat a woman do not know what to look for. Also many girls who had abusive, or neglectful fathers will try to fill the void of male attention with whoever will fill it..

My wifes cousin is dating this guy who is a real creep but she has low self esteem and is convinced that she would be alone if not for him. Were trying to explain to her that they way he acts (even putting aside the sex) does not honor her but she just is so frightened of being alone.

[goddess40]

7. It's beyond creepy

especially knowing that kids that sign those weird "purity pledges" end up having more oral and anal sex then the average teen.

[laststeamtrain]

12. How could valid data be gathered on such things? Teenagers lie like rugs!

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. the studies I've seen were pretty careful

and well designed.

Still, there is no arguing with the increased preggers rates in purity attendees. that tends to be a binary situation, either you are or you are not.

[woodsprite]

8. Sounds like a gathering of incestuous pedophile wannabe's to me.

And I'm a Christian (who's very thankful for liberal Presbyterianism). ;)

Edited to add:
Not dissing the father-daughter dances. I've been to them myself and my daughter/hubby went to a father/daughter valentine dance when she was in 2nd grade. BUT, have you guys seen the pics of these balls? The men look like they just can't keep their eyes or hands off these girls. I saw some pics someone posted on DU, but it's been quite awhile ago. Google "purity balls" in the images section. Some scary stuff there.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. your tax dollars at work

purity bowels are underwritten by abstinence only federal funds.

funny, studies show that women who went thru this crap have a HIGHER STD rate than the normal, er, average, population. Depending on the study, their preggers rates, out of wedlock are as high or higher than the normal, er, average population, and at an earlier age.
One recent study found that the purity vows last, on average, less than a year, meaning that these 14 and 15 yr olds are have sex EARLIER than their peers. The STD transmission rate is particularly troubling, because early Dx and TX can solve all sorts of problems, (including multiple transmission among other partners), and worse these girls go untreated far more often because they fear daddyum's wrath if the news got out.

They also engage in more oral and anal sex with their peers, apparently, as follow up studies suggest, they can reconcile promises to daddyums, while pleasing their date.


There are also stories about menchildren, or teen boys as you call them, who view purity girls as special targets, something to seek out, convince, fuck, and drop, as a badge of accomplishment.


But as I said, there are tax dollars at work, not to mention the continued mental disease known as organized religion, polluting the minds of the innocents.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. This is actually a great idea...

They're just not taking it far enough. They need to make the pledge that they will abstain until menopause, regardless. Then they won't breed, and the fundies will all die out.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. that's JUST BRILLIANT!

great idea! But see my post above. it won't, doesn't, can't work.

[Warpy]

13. Having a little girl pledge her holy hymen to daddy

is beyond creepy.

What is wrong with these people?

[aquart]

15. Incest is best.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. "I like the little ones. How much for your daughters?

and your wife, how much for your women?"

[aquart]

22. Nah, daddy's keeping them all.

[laststeamtrain]

20. A family that plays together, stays together.

:hi:

[zanne]

14. I'd love to talk to the ex-girlfriends of those fathers...

I wonder how many of them were virgins when they got married!

[patrice]

18. I approve of a public affirmation of the responsibilities of parenthood. What I worry about is

whether those responsibilities evolve appropriately as a given female matures. This includes many issues, but one BIG one comes to mind: Marriage is tooooooo often just a meal-ticket bought and paid for with "virginity" and "donkey chasing a carrot" sexuality after the marriage vows are made.

At what point does the Father instruct the daughter that her virginity, the subsequent loss thereof, and everything about mature sexual relationships should NOT be a "meal ticket"? When and how does the Father tell Her that her body should not be used as a tool for the infantilization of men.

[MindPilot]

24. Very well-said. This "purity" crap is misogyny in the extreme.

Morality is only the facade; it's real purpose is setting the price of the vagina. In the minds of the fundies that is a woman's only worth.

[patrice]

31. It can be Prostitution and is probably one of the main reasons for divorce now.

And sexuality even in "successful" Marriages isn't even necessarily healthy.

Is it any wonder that young people are experimenting in all sorts of ways? They NEED appropriate parenting up to a point, but after that, we MUST let their lives be their own.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. hey, they have a place in the kitchen, too, you know!

How twisted can a subset of society become, to promote such actions, with their good book as their sword and shield.

I do believe that in most purity bowels, the girls are escorted through under a set of swords, by the way. The better to save their virginity, and when it is time, to pierce the hymens, no doubt.


At the same time as these ball, we have wacked out Texas polygamy cults abusing and impregnating 14 yrs olds. Religion is truly the basis of all evil.

[Iggo]

36. "...setting the price of the vagina."

Wow. Yikes. Gross.

True, too. And well said.

Some disclosure, here. I spoke to my 13 yr old niece about not "giving it up." And how she has the power because she has something they want, but if she "gives it away" she loses the power. This was a small part of a larger talk on how I hoped she wouldn't start having babies 'til after she finished college. I didn't do it for morality or purity, but for practicality. Now I see I may have been "setting the price of the vagina" with the "don't give it away" message.

Dammit. This is the kind of problem-fixing that starts with, "Um, Melissa? The other day I said something stupid..."

[Dogtown]

46. You're daughter is lucky.

We all make parenting mistakes. Owning up and addressing it is more than most are capable of.

Respect!

:hi:

[MindPilot]

59. You niece is very lucky to have such an enlightened uncle!

National Lampoon once ran pictorial about school sex education where the girls went into one room and received a high-level lecture about the financial leverage inherent in their bodies. Meanwhile the boys were sent off to watch an infantile facts-of-life filmstrip called something like Mr Snake and Ms Bunny-rabbit which ended with the basic message of even thinking about sex will make one's manhood shrivel up and fall off.


When I had "the talk" with my son, I told him something along the lines of "your penis is like a very powerful sports car; it is a fun toy and you should feel free to have a good time with it. But like that sports car, if you let it get out of control--which is very easy to do--or fail to properly maintain it, it can cost you a lot of heartache and even more money.

He's now past thirty, still enjoying singledom and I have no grandchildren. I think he heard me.

Probably the best message for young girls I saw on a bumper sticker the other day: "A man is not a financial plan"

[wellstone dem]

19. "future father in laws" is the creepiest part of this whole thing

I've sat here for three minutes trying to find something to describe how disgusting the image of a son sending his dad out to pledge to "cover" his fiance. yech

[rurallib]

28. Boy that really jumped out at me also

I have daughters and if their FILs took them to something like this I would most likely have some words for them.
Let me add that my daughters have always been very able to stand on their own. So if I had tried something like this after they were 10 years old I probably would have been kicked.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

39. That also struck me as *really* wierd

Perhaps the girl is from a single parent household?

[Sal Minella]

41. The language is truly weird. In rural parlance, a ram covers a ewe duing breeding.

[AlCzervik]

26. i found this particular bit sad and yes, creepy.

“Something I need from dad is affirmation, being told I’m beautiful,” said Jordyn Wilson, 19, another daughter of Randy and Lisa. “If we don’t get it from home, we will go out to the culture and get it from them.”

[closeupready]

40. They seem so ignorant to me. They are SUPPOSED to get it from them out there, eventually.

Incest leads to all kinds of bad stuff - birth defects, recessive genes, etc. Hopefully, she just misspoke or she will eventually understand that.

But that's what us-vs.-them thinking does to a society. There was an article in the Times a couple years back about the Saudis and how their society has become inbred and suffers from a higher than normal degree of birth defects. Duh, because you are an extremely closed society governed by a repressive interpretation of your religion.

This is all so unhealthy.

[EstimatedProphet]

49. Future Attention Whores of America

Someone who needs affirmation from other people in order to feel positive about themself is not in a healthy mindset.

[AlCzervik]

27. one more thing, The "Purity ball manual can be yours for $300"

http://www.purityball.com/host.html

just as i suspected, another way to separate the fools from their money. Well now looks like the right time to have a model of the "Watch me grow Chasity belt" made so i can get a patent and then go to market.

[woodsprite]

30. Here's a bit of an article from Glamour mag - truly scary stuff

http://www.glamour.com/news/articles/2007/01/purityballs07feb?currentPage=1

"The older girls at the Broadmoor tonight are themselves curvaceous and sexy in backless dresses and artful makeup; next to their fathers, some look disconcertingly like wives. In fact, in the parlance of the purity ball folks, one-on-one time with dad is a “date,” and the only sanctioned one a girl can have until she is “courted” by a man. The roles are clear: Dad is the only man in a girl’s life until her husband arrives, a lifestyle straight out of biblical times. “In patriarchy, a father owns a girl’s sexuality,” notes psychologist and feminist author Carol Gilligan, Ph.D. “And like any other property, he guards it, protects it, even loves it.”.....

....Lisa Wilson cries as she presents each of their three ceremonial dances, one of which is called “I’ll Always Be Your Baby.” Afterward, Randy Wilson and a fellow pastor, Steve Holt, stand at the cross with heavy rapiers raised and announce that they are prepared to “bear swords and war for the hearts of our daughters.”....

....The purity movement is, in essence, about refusing to let girls grow up: Daddy’s girls never have to be adults. “The balls are saying, I want you to be 11 forever,” says Kindlon. These are girls who may never find out what it means to make decisions without a man involved, to stand up for themselves, to own their sexuality.....

....When Lauren Wilson hit adolescence, her father gave her a purity ring and a charm necklace with a tiny lock and key. Randy Wilson took the key, which he will hand over to her husband on their wedding day.....

[CoffeeCat]

32. This is creepy beyond repair...

Ok, first off--a father does not have ownership of his daughter's body. That's the underlying
premise behind these dances, in which the father pledges to be the "protector"--thus ensuring
that she is "pure."

This smacks of boundary violations and a misunderstanding of the role of a father.

A father teaches his daughter self respect, and to care about herself. A father is a good role
model and treats his daughter and his wife well. Good fathers provide a healthy model for male
behavior.

It's not the father's job to take on some kind of decision-making role about his daughter's body
and what she does with it.

I say this as a mother of two girls. I hope they wait until they are married or at least in love
and in a mature relationship before they have sex. It is not my place to enter into some kind
of bizarre covenant in which I am deemed the ruler of their bodies.

These people seem to have some boundary issues.

Why not just have a father/daughter dance? Those are adorable. Why hold an event, which has
an express purpose of declaring that an adult male has control over his daughter's body and sex
life---which he clearly does not. What kind of a man would even want to be so overly focused
on his daughter's sexuality? Some of these girls are in grade school!

If you want to hold seminars for men--in which these guys learn how to be great fathers and husbands--
so their daughters grow up to have a healthy model for male behavior--that's great. I totally applaud
that. But why have a dance--with the girls present--in which you are declaring the men the
gatekeepers and decision makers about their daughter's bodies.

This is way creepy and I worry more about sexual abuse and incest with people like this. Fathers
should not be so consumed with their daughters bodies and sex lives--that they attend an event
that is centered around those issues. Boundaries!

One in for girls is molested by the age of 18--usually by a father, stepfather, grandfather or other
close relative. I'd bet any amount of money that the statistics are even higher within this group.

[Ian David]

34. Oh dear god... not this again...

"I love you. And I am very concerned about your vagina."



Daddy says that someday I'll get 'The Curse' that makes my vagina bleed. That makes me scared, because it might wake-up the monster that lives under my bed. The one that used to touch me at night when Daddy was still drinking.


See prior thread:

"Would you pledge your virginity to your father?"
Topic started by Bluebear on Jan-20-07 05:17 PM (278 replies)
Last modified by Generic Other on Jan-23-07 08:48 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8840

[aikoaiko]

35. i wonder if there are any STI/Preg data on purity ball girls, yet.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

47. see above. YES

they suffer STD at rates HIGHER than others of their age, class, education.

they also get pregnant, (unmarried) at the same or higher rates than the average population.

along with all this abstinence training (federally funded) they do NOT get training about STDs, and when they catch them, they are too afraid to get treated.

[AngryOldDem]

42. That is just creepy. n/t

[margotb822]

43. Just another excuse not to teach sex-ed

And then, when the hormones take over and they break their purity vows, they have no knowledge of safer sex. Hence the rise in teen pregnancy and STDs.

To these people, sex is an evil, not an enjoyment. They are embarassed of their sexuality and they repress it until it turns into twisted thoughts and desires. If they had a healthy relationship with sex, they would see that this is ludicrous and bizarre.

[timtom]

44. "Father-Daughter Purity Balls" ??

Gah!!! Who has to wash them?

[Sheets of Easter]

51. Purity ball schmurity ball- there's a latent sexual subtext to all of this.

So much so that it's creepy.

[defendandprotect]

55. To be followed by a Mother/Son PURITY Ball . . . ???

[Mz Pip]

56. As the mother of 2 sons

I find that equally creepy. I can't imagine dressing up in a ball gown with one of my son's next to me in a little tux. Yuck.

I think they both had a pretty good time at their proms without me. :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

58. No --- they would be verifying your purity . . .

:evilgrin:

[Rwalsh]

60. Whoop de doo

:boring: