Which statement do you think BEST describes the "friend"/"enemy"...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

Poll question: Which statement do you think BEST describes the "friend"/"enemy"...

...rhetorical labels, as applied to other nations, we so often hear Chimpy and other U.S. government officials using?

Statement one: The use of these labels is appropriate because in the real world, at the international level, we do have "friends" and "enemies" and we shouldn't hesitate to openly let other countries know how they're perceived.

Statement two: These labels are high schoolish and immature and run counter to the purpose of diplomacy which should always seek to make use of language intended to deescalate rather than escalate tensions.

[panader0]

1. A "real" enemy is a country whose oil we need.

[Cant trust em]

2. I wouldn't use them in regards to a specific situation.

I think that if they're applied to a theoretical situation, then they're OK.

[C_U_L8R]

3. i wonder if money is the enemy

[Jed Dilligan]

4. I think we should describe all the world's peoples as our friends,

and when we disagree with their leaders, we should explain why instead of labeling them. But that's crazy talk.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

5. I can't disagree with you, Jed...

...I was thinking along the lines of labels like "current allies" and "future allies."

[Boojatta]

6. "Enemy" is ambiguous.

The hostility could be on both sides or on just one side. If it's on just one side, then there are two possibilities. Thus, there's a total of at least three possibilities.

Edited to add: "friend" is also ambiguous. You can be betrayed by a friend, so a friendship can also be one-sided. However, you're unlikely to know that it's one-sided unless you're the one doing the betraying.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

7. I'm trying to glean from your commentary...

...whether or not you voted, and if so, how.

I'm gonna guess that you did and chose statement 2.

Now, tell me what I've won, Boojatta!!!

[Boojatta]

9. I didn't vote.

There are plenty of people who use English, but who aren't fluent in it and who sometimes make a variety of mistakes in comprehension. Simplicity is usually a good idea in mass-communication unless it creates a serious risk of misleading people.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

10. So I didn't win anything?

:(

I believe you've intentionally misled me, Boojatta.

[Boojatta]

13. I didn't intend to mislead you.

I think you let cautious optimism turn into over-confidence.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

15. Interestingly enough...

...I was voted "most likely to let cautious optimism turn into over-confidence" my senior year in high school, so I guess I'm busted on that one.

[Boojatta]

12. "intended to de-escalate"

Language doesn't have voodoo powers. A polite, diplomatic manner is one thing. It's another thing to insinuate "You are seriously disturbed. Before I say anything, I need to first translate it from normal English to English-for-deranged-people."

What if the other side makes a mistake in the process of trying to reverse the translation? Suppose that some time in the past a US President referred to Iraq as "America's future ally." Then the task begins. Would that mean that the US government isn't going to invade or does that mean that the US government is planning to invade and hoping that the invasion will convert Iraq into a "friend"?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

14. If you're suggesting that the difference between the kind of saber rattling...

...rhetoric we repeatedly hear from Chimpy, and intelligent diplomatic language intended to facilitate good faith negotiations is hard to discern and/or easily confused, I would have to disagree. Heads of state can surely tell the difference.

[Boojatta]

16. If GWB saves the con artistry and sweet talk for Americans,

then I'm not sure that leaders of foreign countries are missing anything worthwhile.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

17. Listen, Boojatta...

...just go back up to the OP and vote for "two" and all is forgiven.

:pals:

[Boojatta]

18. If I don't vote...

then am I excluded from the "future allies of Mr_Jefferson_24 club"?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

19. Only under the the most extreme...

...circumstances would I ever issue a threat like that.

Listen, Boojatta, it's very simple -- either you're with Mr Jeff, or you're with the terrorists. Now save your soul and do the right thing before it's too late.

[Boojatta]

21. More often than is generally recognized, the right thing is

"none of the above."

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

22. I have to go to bed now...

...You think about what I've said.

Goodnight, Boojatta:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5XESS10M4&feature=related

[KharmaTrain]

8. Totally Myopic

This regime...and sad to say, many in this country view the world as if everything that happens either affects or revolve around the US. There's little concept of history or culture and, thanks to our beloved corporate media, those who aren't "like us" are view as strange or "foreign". Thus despite warnings of stirring the Shiite/Sunni divide in Iraq, the ignorance of not just this regime, but this entire country went hellbent into this mess and then when it became obvious how disastrous this was, even more myopia has set in.

This regime has made an artform of turning the most complicated issues into simple black/white ones...and almost always disastrous results. It's also an indication of the poor state of our educational systems and culture in general as the ignorance of this country...which many abroad have long noted...has now destroyed this country's credibility.

[Glorfindel]

11. When in doubt, refer to the source material

From the Declaration of Independence:

"We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."

There is no ambiguity there. If we're at war, those whom we are fighting are our enemies. If at peace, they're our friends. The definition of "war," however, especially an UNDECLARED war against an innocent country (Iraq), is a different matter. And to hold those who disagree with our UNDECLARED war to be also our enemies is morally reprehensible.

Therefore, I voted for statement two, and thank you for giving us all something to think about.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

20. You're quite welcome and thanks for voting.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

23. Kick for a larger sample.