If we're at Peak Oil why are massaive Tire Kingdom signs burning all night

[saltpoint]

at the mall exits of most freeways?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. We are at peak oil, we peaked two or three years ago (depends on the stats you read)

but the facts are just coming home to roost

Time to think of how to change your lifestyle

[saltpoint]

4. I'm thinking mass transit would be a good first undertaking.

I'm sure Condi Rice and her Big Oil pals would disagree, but since when did I ever care what Condi Rice thinks, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Good point, personally I am thinking bike...

and the exercise will be good for me too

[saltpoint]

8. Well, I applaud that strategy, you bet.

All thumbs up, and green balloons, besides.

[dysfunctional press]

24. alternative-fueled cars would be a better idea.

our country and infrastructure is built around the auto- mass transit just isn't feasible in many many areas of the country, and for many many people.
we'd be better off developing alternative means to power private vehicles.

[Strelnikov_]

25. Mass transit does not save energy compared to the typical automobile

(20.5 mpg) in terms of energy consumed per passenger mile.

And since we are talking energy, that is what counts.

Mass transit, to date, has been deployed to alleviate traffic congestion and pollution (smog). With the population density we have attained through decades of development, mass transit is not energy efficient.

Following is the publication that caused me to dig into energy efficiency of mass transit.

Our urban sprawl has no precedent in history, so the feasibility of a mass transit system has yet to be proven – a true mass transit system for the U.S. today may, in fact, be impossible. In addition, the energy savings of mass transit, in the context of implementing such a system in today’s configuration configuration of cities and urban sprawl, may be highly overrated. Figure 6 shows that existing mass transit systems do not provide significant fuel savings.11 It depicts the Btus of energy per passenger mile (assuming average passenger densities) for each type of transportation.

11. Transportation Energy Data Book, 25th Edition, 2006, tables 2-11 and 2-12, Center for Transportation Analysis, Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

http://www.communitysolution.org/pdfs/NS12.pdf

Following is the raw data:

http://cta.ornl.gov/data/index.shtml

Following is the concept of what I think is the personal transportation future to serve as the collector from low density development to high load factor electric powered mass transit corridors.

[saltpoint]

27. Appreciate the data you present, but wonder also about the coming

re-migration to the cities.

People moved from cities in the aftermath of our victory in the second World War in very large numbers. The commute -- the entire car-based culture, in fact -- drove up both costs (eventually) and energy waste quotients. Kids used to play baseball in the streets of Manhattan; now they had to be driven to soccer matches and band practice iin large vans and SUVs from the suburbs in John Boehner's district and througout the Twin Cities, etc.

As fuel prices rise, those distances may become increasingly untenable and a re-migration into the cities may be the result. All those huge cars, vans & SUVs aren't going to work proportional to avaiable space within a cityscape, and accommodation will have to be made.

Not disputing your stats as they stand, only trying to get a glimpse of what's to come.

[tjwash]

10. I know I'm getting ready to rip out everything in our front and back yard.

Food prices are going crazy, because of gas prices and here I am dumping water on grass to keep it green. It makes more sense to grow my own food, and I am lucky enough to own a place with a front and back yard. We already do a community garden, and grow a lot and over the years we have gotten very proficient at canning the extras after we pick them.

[saltpoint]

12. Strong supporter of community gardens.

One of the true dangers of U.S. culture, IMO, is that we have come so far so fast from the connection with the natural elements.

We bulldoze everything in site to build subdivisions and huge malls and so on, and we have forgotten what 2nd graders used to know en masse -- that if you plant seeds carefully and take care of them, they will grow into corn and oak trees.

[tjwash]

14. The nicest thing about them...

...is the gardening tips that you pick up from the other gardeners. Plus being out in the sun, the exercise, and the sense of accomplishment not only in growing your own food, but being able to can and preserve it for later as well.

[saltpoint]

15. Yes, yes, and yes.

The best people show up, and tips are swapped.

You nailed it. And don't stop for anything!

[elizfeelinggreat]

2. excellent question

When people perceive those signs (and other greedy and unnecessary uses of resources) as infringing on their future security perhaps pubic pressure will cause better behavior in Tire Kingdom's excesses?.

Well, I can hope.

[saltpoint]

5. Yes. Not to single out Tire Kingdom, since so many businesses do the

same thing, but really, how often do people get the hankering to go tire-shopping at 4:00 in the morning?

[squawk7700]

3. Electricity is cheap. Is that basic fact invisible?

:eyes:

[saltpoint]

7. It has been, I guess.

I don't think it will be much longer.

[squawk7700]

16. Bingo. Even wi;thout the Enron screw-grandma debacle where it got 'expensive' even that

was cheap. The 20th century spoiled Earthlings. No shit. Things are changing...rapidly.

[mrcheerful]

9. What about the fact that as we speak oil is being exported from america

to China, Korea and Japan. Whats up with that and why hasn't the government done a thing to stop exports of a rare resource thats supposedly in short supply? Are the majority of americans so conditioned by big business they are unable to reason out that they are being played big time? Remember since the 1980's big oil has controled everything known about oil and the supply of said resource as well as blamed the EPA for all of big oils problems refining oil. Yet time after time we hear peak oil, supply and demand yet not one shread of evidence comes out about oil unless people like Exxon approve of its outing. Things that make a thinking person go "say what"?

[saltpoint]

11. The re-alignment of cultures and nations based on energy needs and

shortages is going to be the chief critical issue of the future, more than likely, since nearly everything else hinges on its resolution.

When the Nobel Committee awarded Al Gore its top prize, that loud, sustained scream of elation was coming from my residence. He's just one person but he is a globally-acknowledged person, and perhaps now more influential than he would have been had he been elected in the 80s when he first ran or even in 2000.

A lot of the reforms will have to come from anonymous, step-by-step work. But it's mighty fine to have Mr. Gore around to give the movement a public voice.

[Andy823]

13. Good point.

It should be against the law to export an oil from this country! If we are running out, then we should have enough brains to stop exporting what we have in this country!

I too think that big oil is putting out all the info we get in order to keep prices high. If we are really running out it would be wise to start rationing what we have, would it not? We waste so much fuel in this country it's ridiculous!

[squawk7700]

18. Oil is a global commodity, it isn't imported or exported, it just gets sold

by people who have it to people who want it. Or sometimes it's sold by people who stole it to people who want it.
Bottom line is this: everyone wants it and they will pay whatever it takes to get it.

[Subdivisions]

20. Then you have absolutely nothing to worry about and you should

just remain forever mrcheerful.

[mrcheerful]

26. No offense but the term peak oil and oil shortage came out as early as

1910 and oil exec's have been spouting it every 20 years since then. I don't know about anyone else, but I trust neither Government nor oil people to be up front about anything going on. Remember 1974 and 1978 oil experts were saying that by 1990 the oil would be used up, somehow I doubt Carters energy saving tactics saved enough oil to make it last 18 years past the date the experts were saying oil would run out in 1978. It just makes me wonder why if things are that bad we see very little efforts being made for alternative fuels. I mean come on so far all they have come up with is ethonal made from corn and battery powered cars, but remember it takes a lot of oil to make the plastics that make up the casings for said batteries. Btw also think about the way neo cons have used fear to get their way these last 8 years and how much of what they said was based on reality or fact? Sorry but I am old enough to remember 1974, I just started driving that year, I graduated in 75 and I saw the same games then as today. In fact I'm hearing the same exact excuses I was hearing in 1974, we don't have the resources, the government refuses to enact alternative fuel research.

[Solon]

30. Your post is so full of misinformation, I don't know where to begin...

First things first, the peak is when the oil is MAXED out, every layman out there is stupid, experts claimed that AFTER the peak, which for the United States occured around 1970-71, oil production will never reach that high mark again, it will decrease from that point onward. This isn't about RUNNING OUT of oil, this is about not meeting demand. Even if the United States kept every drop of oil produced in this country for domestic use, it would account for less than 10% of the oil consumed in this country daily.

[leftofthedial]

17. the fundie capitalists want the end.

there's profit (and prophets) in it.

[saltpoint]

19. Hi there. It's been a while since I've had the opportunity to

say hi and offer good wishes to you. I hope things are well your way.

I hope your state is as beautiful and exhilarating tonight as it always has been.

And I'm already hawk-eyeing that Senate race!

__
edit: spellin'

[leftofthedial]

28. things are good in Colorado

or at least they aren't all bad!

How are you?

[saltpoint]

32. Holding on. I was saddened by the news from Boston on Ted

Kennedy.

Over some years his office has been extraordinarily supportive of my family.

I hope you can grab a moment and get up into those mountains. You live in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

[leftofthedial]

33. I get up there too infrequently,

but I do have an amazing view of them at the park near my house.

I'm pulling for Ted. He is a giant and a member of a family of giants.

[Lint Head]

21. Because we are not at peak oil. Oil dereks are sitting idle so the

supply will just meet demand. They are at 85% capacity and cutting back. I know this for a fact. I have had oil executives admit this to me as we drove by oil fields in Texas. I have been present at their conventions as a guest in Texas and Oklahoma. They are basically unregulated. If the American people did not have the right to sue you would also see more oil spills. Laws suits are the only regulations other than pollution standards and as long as you have a President with Big Oil ties those standards will not be enforced. They have worked for years to get oil men into the White House. They succeeded with Bush the first and hoped to continue the dynasty. (Remember Dallas?) The TV show not the assassination. Some say there is a connection there too. :dem:

[squawk7700]

23. Derricks. They haven't been used for 30 years, they're just relics.

Oil spills aren't really a big problem these days...aware citizens pretty much put the kibosh on any incipient ones.

And you're wrong about the 'supply', actually you don't have the first clue what that even means. As an oil supplier, I want to sell every gallon or barrel I can...and so does everyone else who thinks making a profit isn't equal to child molestation.

[Dogmudgeon]

29. That's very hard to believe

I say that with no rancor or disrespect. But there has been a lot of hard data that shows we're in a heap of trouble as goes petroleum production.

Rather that engage you in a long discussion here and now, I urge you to open a thread in the http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=115">DU Energy and Environment forum. If you have some information that is different from the consensus view, it will get a lot of discussion -- even if it's just to relate some industry chat you've picked up.

--p!

[galledgoblin]

22. it'll take awhile for the reality to sink in

even I'm not entirely sure if this is peak oil or if it's just another part of the cycle.

if it is, we'll know in very dramatic and undeniable terms soon.

[Solon]

31. Because Peak Coal hasn't occured yet...

Natural Gas, maybe, but Coal, give it another decade or so.