Digital TV Transition Not as Easy as Advertised

[mahatmakanejeeves]

I live in Alexandria, Virginia. I have TV sets equipped with rabbit ears. Those antennas are modified from existing antennas, and I installed those antennas in the sets myself. In the spring, I like to watch over-the-air broadcasts of college lacrosse from Baltimore's WMAR channel 2. Next spring, I won't be able to see those broadcasts, as the distance between me and Baltimore is beyond the limits of digital broadcasting. A lot of people are in for a big surprise.

Digital TV Transition Not as Easy as Advertised

Preparing for Analog Shut-Off, Some Viewers Say New Signals Aren't as Reliable

By Kim Hart
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 20, 2008; Page A01

The government-ordered switch to digital television broadcasting next year promises razor-sharp picture and orchestra-like sound -- that is, if the signal actually comes in.
....

The nation's broadcasters will shut off traditional, over-the-air TV signals as they move to all-digital programming Feb. 17. But questions remain about whether the digital signals will consistently reach the 14 million households that depend on antennas to receive broadcasts.

A large number of viewers who hook up a converter box, or use a newer digital TV, will have clearer reception and more channels than they did with analog broadcasts. For some, the improved quality could serve as a replacement for more-expensive basic cable service. But some consumers may have to buy extra equipment to reliably pull in as many channels as they did before the switch, especially if they live in rural areas or near tall trees or buildings.

"The government's message for consumers is that all they need is a converter box or digital TV," said David Klein, executive vice president of Centris, a market research firm. "That's an oversimplification of what's going to happen."

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Actually, you need cable or satellite.

I live in Philly, and Comcast DTV service costs us $50 a month. Such a steal!

:eyes:

Actually, with internet and phone service, it's $110, which is a little bit better. But Comcast is a huge and arrogant company, which nobody likes, and which everybody must obey.

You can't even dig a garden in some places without getting Comcast's permission -- even if it's your property and there's no underground cable.

--p!

[onehandle]

2. Nearly 90% of households have either cable or satellite.

Eventually, all technologies pass. Sorry.

[annabanana]

3. Do you not see the new economic restrictions on information

as a problem in a "free" country?

A very poor person can save up for a TV, and not have to pay and pay and pay every month for years to get it to work.

[Demit]

4. Agree. I cringe at the cavalier attitude of people who can easily afford the $50+ per month

for cable. I just got cable for the first time (I'm 55) and it's a delight, but as a freelance artist most of my career I didn't just assume that it was a necessity. Which now apparently it will be, if you want to watch ANY tv at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Due to geography it has been a necessity where I live

for evah... and there are regions like that well before this transition

That said... I do see a problem with this

[asthmaticeog]

36. TV is not a necessity anywhere, ever. nt

[onehandle]

6. Yes, and it's a problem. I think basic local cable should be free.

But that's not going to happen.

Technology plus the spread and explosion of population has transformed communication to a "common expense."

Unless they find a new spectrum of broadcast frequencies, broadcast television will eventually go away all together.

[melm00se]

14. if you get into the

"way back" machine, you might remember the original acronym for cable TV was CATV which stood for Community access TV. This technology was, in essence, a single powerful antenna that would collect and retransmit (down a physical cable) to the various subscribers the available TV signals.

[jmowreader]

28. Well, Community Antenna Television

A man in Oregon invented it as we now know cable tv. He found out a radio station in Seattle was about to broadcast television, so he put a really massive antenna on the roof of the tallest building in town, plugged a TV into it and was the only person in town who could watch television. (The Seattle station was the only one he could intercept; there were no Portland stations at the time.) Next thing he knew, everyone in town wanted to watch TV, so he charged them $125 for wire and stuff and hooked them up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television_in_the_United_States

[Retrograde]

24. There's information on TV?

Fox news? (sorry, can't resist). One of the local news programs is ok, but otherwise there's a lot less info out there than on DU.

IIRC, the new rules don't eliminate broadcast TV, they just change the format. Since I rarely watch broadcast TV, I have no idea what they're doing to make people aware of this: I haven't seen much news on it, but then I haven't been paying that much attention.

[annabanana]

27. If you can't afford a monthly charge for television.. how will you

pay for internet access.. and access to all the information here or anywhere else for that matter?

[Retrograde]

29. um, library?

newspapers? radio? public internet connections at libraries or hotspots? dialup connection? How do people who don't have tv today get their information?

[Firespirit]

32. We have $20 for unlimited access DSL and I've set up a wireless network

So everyone in the house can go online.

Cable TV is closer to $60 than $50, and satellite is worse. The set-up fees alone would be outrageous, because it's a big, 120-year-old house. It would break the budget. Yes, things actually are that tight for some of us.

[Jack_DeLeon]

38. Thats still the case...

although newer TVs do cost a little more.

Myself I just put a TV tuner into my computer only cost me $80 and I can watch either cable or OTA digital.

[WinkyDink]

26. Some of us consider the 10%.

[Lorien]

42. Do you have a link for that?

about 30% of the people I know don't have either (including myself).

[KharmaTrain]

5. Many Changes Are Still Coming

I have the same problem with the Chicago CBS HD channel...I can get every other signal...including some real low power ones, but CBS tried to build their DTV signal on Channel 3 and the frequency is loaded with interference that makes it impossible to pick up here...for now. The reason being that the final DTV allocations and power still haven't been set.

Right now many DTV stations are sharing channels with analog and have to operate at reduced power or on another channel that won't be their final one. For example, WMAR is currently on Channel 52 with reduced power. Next February they will "flash-over" to Channel 38 and increase their power to 1,000,000 watts...that should bring those LaCrosse games in "loud and clear".

This is the same thing around the country. A majority of the DTV signals now are "incomplete"...

For a List of what's happening...and there's a lot, this is a good site to check...

http://www.rabbitears.info/index.php

Last week we got a converter box for my mother-in-law (she loves her old Zenith) and had little problems hooking it up. The key is having a good antenna...many of the ones sold at Radio Shack are shitty...especially the ones with built-in amplifiers as they tend to pick up more interference than signal. Ironically, I get a beautiful picture using a 40 year old bowtie UHF antenna sitting in my window sill...45 miles from the transmitters.

The big problem I'm seeing is where to put the damn box. Most people have cable boxes, DVD players, VCRs and other stuff that take up both power outlets and physical space...finding a place for yet another box is a bigger problem than getting the thing to work.

Digital TV is far superior to what's out there now...and offers more channels. Gone is the snow and ghosting. TV's current technology is nearly 70 years old...this change is long overdue and has been handled as best as it can be...and far better than the mess broadcasters have made of attempting to digitize radio.

[onehandle]

7. Digital radio is common and well done in England.

Over here it's a niche technology.

I guess I'm an "elitist" because I pay twelve bucks a month for satellite radio.

No commercials. Ahh...

[KharmaTrain]

10. You Guys Did It Right...DRM

The Europeans and Canadians chose the proper way of converting...DRM or Digital Radio Mundiale is far superior to the HD Radio crap they're trying to peddle here. American stations are trying to cram both analog and digital into the same signal and both suffer...but it protects the licenses of the big corporate owners and allows them to control who gets access to the technology. HD Radios are a joke as there are still only a handful on the market, overpriced and that drift in and out due to the weak signals. This is turning into another mess...similar to the attempts to turn AM stereo in the 80's and early 90's.

I get a world of great stations...and all I have is my puter or my wireless internet radio. I get several AAR stations as well as Pacifica, BBC and hundreds of local stations. As I say, that's where the digital future is.

If I were on the road alot, I'd probably look into a satellite radio, but I'm like many listeners that are used to free radio and don't feel what's out there is worth wasting money on. I'd rather give that $12 a month to Grovelbot.

Cheers...

[onehandle]

13. I'm not over there.

I have friends and colleagues over there and they rave about it.

[left is right]

33. i love radio 4 and 7

I looked into buying a digital radio just for those two stations. Then I read that neither radio 4 or 7 could be picked up outside of the UK

[peekaloo]

9. Thanks for that link.

funny that I have completely lost the Tampa CBS station as well.

[KharmaTrain]

12. CBS Has Really Screwed Up

That list has a bunch of CBS stations that tried to convert on the cheap and have poor facilities. The local outlet decided on the awful Channel 3 because they got a deal on a cheap antenna. When viewers began to complain, they tried to modify things and it didn't help. Eventually they had to petition the FCC for a new channel and will move to that allocation next year. For now, the only way I get David Letterman (the only CBS show I watch) is via cable.

Again, you'll see there are a lot of changes still to come...but once the analog signals are off the air, stations will "power up" and many of the current problems will go away.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

17. rabbitears.info

http://www.rabbitears.info/index.php

Thanks for the link. How will low power stations fare after the transition? Will anyone still be able to watch them on ATSC sets, or will they require NTSC sets to be viewed?

[KharmaTrain]

18. Yep..

The other night I saw a local low power station had turned on their low power digital transmitter...only cranking out 1,000 watts, but up atop Sears Tower. While the analog signal, which is 150,000 watts is loaded with snow, the LDTV signal comes in at 70% and is clean as a bell...and I'm 45 miles from the transmitter.

The biggest problem with DTV signals are the ones that are on the low VHF Channels 2-6 that require big antennas and are the most suspectible for interference that will mess up the DTV locking. Fortunately, the FCC has moved most of those stations off that band...I wish they'd just shitcan VHF altogether so that all you need is one antenna to get a good signal.

BTW...the flashover won't affect low power analog...translators and the like for the meantime...their status will come after the big boys make their final moves and there are more DTVs in the marketplace. I recently saw a report that over 85% of the nation's home are already "DTV ready"...either with a DTV signal or cable or satellite.

[eShirl]

22. thanks for the link

now if I could only figure out what my local stations' statistics actually mean

[KharmaTrain]

23. It's Real Geeky...LOL

Basically the thing to look for is your market (obviously) and the three channel numbers...one is the current analog, the second is the transitional channel (the one they're sending a digital signal now) and where their signal will end up after next Feb. 20th.

The other thing that can help is to know where your local station is transmitting from. Here's a site that can help you figure that out...

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Just put in your zip and it'll show what you should be able to pick up and which direction to point the antenna.

[WillowTree]

31. If you're using a cable or satellite box you don't *need* another converter.

[DCKit]

8. I live just up the road from you...

and I'm getting 25 local, digital channels on an "Insignia" converter box (Best Buy) and a "Terrestrial Digital" DB4 antenna (Amazon.com at $57 with free shipping). The same company makes a smaller DB2 antenna, but I figured for the extra $20, I'd get a better signal. Though you may have to aim them for the best signal, either antenna can be hung on the wall behind the TV, stuck in a closet or mounted wherever you have the best line of sight to your local broadcast antennas.

I figure for the $80, one-time outlay, I'll have a reasonable selection of programming and won't be supporting companies that I know don't give a damn about anything but profit. Besides, the SO has ComCast's full Craptastic line-up.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

15. "Insignia" converter box

How much did that set you back? I received the coupons in the mail. Now all I have to do is to find them.

I can't stand Best Buy.

[DCKit]

20. Me either, but the Insignia got a lot of buzz and Beast Buy's got them.

One major feature is the ability to stretch, expand, crop or letterbox the picture for best viewing. Few other boxes offer that ability, though I've heard it's the same as the Zenith model (same box, rebranded).

With the $40 coupon, my out of pocket was <$24 for the box. Almost everyone is selling them for $59.99.

[Lorien]

43. Best Buy is blue

do you prefer a Red company?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

48. I don't care.

I still don't like them. I know a lot of people who refuse to set foot in the place. Here's why:

If the Price Is Right, Do You Have a Right to Know?

By BARBARA B. BUCHHOLZ
Published: March 23, 1997

COMPARISON shopping is as American as apple pie. After all, what's wrong with getting the best deal for that pie by checking the prices at several bakeries? But if the bakery knows what you're doing, can it refuse to tell you its price or even shoo you out of the store?

That is what happened to Ronald Kahlow, a partner in a small software developing firm in Reston, Va., when he wanted to buy two television sets and went to a Best Buy electronics store in Reston last July to check its prices. He had a laptop computer strapped to his waist and was typing in dozens of prices when, he says, a store clerk told him to stop. Mr. Kahlow asserts that another clerk then removed the price tags from the TV's.

When Mr. Kahlow persisted, he was arrested and charged with trespassing. The next day he returned to the store with a pad and pencil (and his former wife, Barbara, carried a camera, to record the store's response). He was arrested again.
''Best Buy advertises that it has the best prices,'' Mr. Kahlow said. ''I decided to check whether it does. If it doesn't want the public, why doesn't it say so?''

A Fairfax County General District judge found him not guilty last August, but Mr. Kahlow has filed a civil suit in that county against Best Buy, seeking $90,000 in damages. The case goes to court next month.

Jeff Maynard, a spokesman for Best Buy, said his company ''absolutely welcomes and encourages our customers to compare our prices.''

''But,'' he added, ''we draw the line when it disrupts other customers' shopping experience.'' He would not explain how Mr. Kahlow's behavior was disruptive, because of the pending litigation.
....

In fact, Best Buy's president, Brad Anderson, boasted to shoppers through a letter posted on its World Wide Web site earlier this month that it sends employees out to check its competitors' prices. The workers either write the prices down or bring along palm-sized tape recorders. They move among a competitor's displays, whispering model numbers and prices into their hands.

and

Best Buy Has Man Arrested for Using $2 Bills

An anonymous reader writes

"Mike Bolesta of Baltimore thought he would protest Best Buy's not-so-great customer service and pay his bill with 57 $2 bills. For his trouble he got to spend some time in the county lock-up."

[NashVegas]

11. I Have An HDTV + Rabbit Ears for Local Digital

I bought the set because my old one died, so figured I may as well bite it. However, I REFUSE to purchase the additional HD cable package (I have satellite). Out of 7 local HD stations, I get a clear picture for two - and I'm 6 miles out of downtown.

[KharmaTrain]

16. If You've Got Satellite, You're Good To Go

I have the HD cable package, and it is vastly overpriced, but I get about 25 HD channels now and the cable company promises that number will double this summer. They also say that as more people convert to HD the price will come down (coughbullshitcough). It's a nice luxuary, but one I could live without if I had to...and I'd be content with what I could get for free off the air. In my area, I get around 30 digital signals compared to about 12 analog ones.

Sounds like you may need to find a better spot for your rabbit ears. Many current DTV signals are at reduced power as not to interfere with existing analog ones, but that will change after the "flash over" date next February. If you can put the antenna in a window facing where the TV towers are, you should get a better picture and pick up more signals.

[NashVegas]

19. The Ears Aren't Going Anywhere In Public View

There are some decorating schemes a grown woman will not accept. :)

As far as I'm concerned, I pay too much for my current package.

[KharmaTrain]

21. They Make Great Ornament Hangers...LOL

I live in a wire jungle here with little I can do about it...between all the stuff hooked up to the tube and the computer nearby, the back of my desk can barely handle all the wires...so I understand what you are saying.

If it weren't for my love of baseball, I'd probably forgo the HD cable...but I figger I don't go out to many movies and hate crowds so this is where I spend my "entertainment dollars"...and always think I'm getting ripped off. But, hey, I know a lot of guys who paid a lot for their package, too...I think they call it Viagra. :rofl:

Cheers...

[WinkyDink]

25. I'm thinking of the poor or mentally challenged. Will they be

sitting with darkened screens, not knowing what has happened or what to do?

This really bothers me.

[htuttle]

34. I expect it to end up like the bread riots during the French Revolution

Seriously. It might be like the ending of "They Live!"

Unintended consequences...

[Jack_DeLeon]

39. If people are rioting only because they arent getting thier TV....

then I have no sympathy for whatever happens to them.

Some people in this world have their priorities all fucked up.

[1]

35. heh. wait! so if...

and 90% get their tv from cable and satellite... (no effect on digital conversion...)

and that remaining 10% most likely will be able get all their "stories" from converter boxes, no problem...

but one or two of you will lose a station or so, we should shut this whole thing down?


is that your contention?

[Jack_DeLeon]

37. I've got cable because my roomate wants it, if it were up to me I'd just go with OTA Digital...

I'm glad for the change. Over the air digital comes in looking clear than what we get on cable. I personally get most of my information from the internet so I only watch TV for the local news.

[Wizard777]

40. You can pick up channel 2?

I used to live near the station. I could walk there in 5 minutes. Even then 2 was fuzzy. Hopefully digital will improve their broadcast signal.

[KharmaTrain]

41. They Probably Won't Be There...

Which city are you in...I can find where they're going for you.

We have a Channel 2 here in Chicago...the signal has always sucked...and their temporary digital is on Channel 3, which is worse. It's the only digital signal I can't get. When things "flash over" they'll move to Channel 12...a better frequency. Looks like the FCC is shutting down the lower channels 2-6...most of the digital signals are on UHF.

[Wizard777]

44. Baltimore

[KharmaTrain]

46. You'll Be In Good Shape

Channel 2 has set up its initial digital signal on Ch. 52, but on 2/10/09 will shift over to Ch. 38 and crank the signal to 1,000,000 watts.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

47. (WMAR, the one in Baltimore)

as you point out a few posts later.

Barely, just barely. Most people would consider the picture unacceptable, but if you want to watch Baltimore-area college lacrosse, you'll put up with it, at least for a while.

Again, I use antennas I put in the sets myself. Back when they could still be found in the trash, I'd take the swiveling rod antennas from TV sets that had been junked. New TVs haven't come with antennas for quite some time. The last antennas that were included with sets did not offer as many "degrees of freedom" for orientation of the rods as the old rod antennas did. The last ones could turn about a vertical axis, and the rods could be moved through individual arcs, but there are orientations that the old antennas could be put in that the new antennas could not. If you saw one the antenna in action, this would make sense.

At any rate, it is only because I can put the rabbit ears in so many different positions that I can get WMAR at all. Oddly, channel 22, in Owings Mill, used to be the station that came in better than any other. It has fallen off in quality recently. I'm thinking, having read some of the excellent and authoritative posts in this thread, that the change in their reception quality must be related to preparations they are making for the change to digital.

I have a hard time getting WRNR, 103.1 MHz, in Alexandria too.

[crimsonblue]

45. HD or digital antennas are not that expensive..

plus there is the $40 credit for converter boxes, so you may be able to still use your old rabbit ears.

[Robb]

49. It'll be interesting to see what happens out here in the sticks

A lot around here got Dish, because we really can only get two stations -- PBS and CBS, snowy -- on rabbit ears. No cable.

Dish got expensive, a lot of folks I know gave it up and went back to rabbit ears and just watching less TV. We just barely get those signals. :shrug: