GEORGE ORWELL PUT IT THIS WAY

[T.Ruth2power]

"I suggest that the real objective of Socialism is not happiness. Happiness hitherto has been a by-product, and for all we know it may always remain so. The real objective of Socialism is human brotherhood. This is widely felt to be the case, though it is not usually said, or not said loudly enough. Men use up their lives in heart-breaking political struggles, or get themselves killed in civil wars, or tortured in the secret prisons of the Gestapo, not in order to establish some central-heated, air-conditioned, strip-lighted Paradise, but because they want a world in which human beings love one another instead of swindling and murdering one another. And they want that world as a first step. Where they go from there is not so certain, and the attempt to foresee it in detail merely confuses the issue." -- George Orwell ("Can Socialists be Happy?" 24 December 1943)

So, happiness is solidarity, and solidarity is the objective of Socialism

[annabanana]

1. I will give this a kick. . . .n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

2. ...so will I. n/t

[Selatius]

3. Orwell saw glimpses of what socialists wanted to build in Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

Of course, the communes he encountered especially up around Catalonia were annihilated by Franco and his fascists at the end of that war. Tens of thousands were rounded up and executed and dumped into mass graves, a foretaste of atrocities the fascists would later commit across all of Europe.

[alfredo]

4. Reading his essay on Gandhi.

[Breeze54]

5. "Men use up their lives..." but what about women?

:shrug:

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

11. .

:popcorn:

[no limit]

17. This was 1943, things were a little different there

but way to go, thank you for derailing this. :eyes:

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

18. No problem- I'm actually impressed with the lack of a gigantic flamewar going on

I would have bet money that it was coming.

[no limit]

21. Looks like I replied to the wrong post, I meant to reply to the one above you

my apologies.

[GeneCosta]

6. K&R for the advancement of socialism

Cold War rhetoric has spun a nice web of lies around the term socialism; I think it's long past time for us to take over these corporations and use resources to benefit the community. Socialism has a long history of philanthropy, activism, and theory which have benefited the world, including within its movement such people as: Eugene Debs, Martin Luther King Jr., George Orwell, Albert Einstein, Karl Marx, Leo Tolstoy, Rosa Luxembourg, Kotoku Shusui, Peter Kropotkin, Mahatma Gandhi, Norman Thomas, Che Guevara, Susan B. Anthony, and Noam Chomsky.

[pnorman]

7. That was a new one to me.Thanks!

I had to Google to find the complete article, but here it is: http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/ctc/docs/fun.htm Here's where I first looked, but in vain: http://www.george-orwell.org/l_orwell-essay.html

George Orwell (Eric Blair) is generally regarded as a "libertarian socialist". That's essentially an anarchist, actually not too far from Noam Chomsky's beliefs. Here's what a 19th century (immigrant) American anarchist, David Edelstadt wrote:

"Already I can see our golden future
when the state will be crowned;
Socialist policemen will crowd every corner
From the president on his throne
To the sheriff tightening his rope
-All will be socialists
What do you say to such a happy prospect?"

Scorned as "impractical dreamers" by most socialists, the anarchists still had a far clearer vision than the doctrinaire Marxists, PARTICULARLY the Bolsheviks.

pnorman

[pnorman]

9. "Land & Freedom", pretty much the Spain that Orwell experienced.

Here it is at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Land-Freedom-Ian-Hart/dp/630417067X

It's available at Amazon, but only as a VHS tape. But I managed to find on the internet, a NTSC DVD version, so I gave my tape away. It's from Taiwan, so I have the choice of Chinese and English subtitles.

SHIT! There goes the next few hours! I started it to check it out, and I will NOT get my ass off to bed until I finish it! But it's a GREAT film, and probably Ken Loach's best. Try to see it if you can!

pnorman

[pnorman]

10. Just finished that film, "Land & Freedom", my third viewing so far.

Intensely moving!! (Fucking Stalinist swine!!) I strongly urge all on this thread to watch it! I don't know if NetFlix carries it, but buy it if necessary. You won't regret it!

At any rate, you can read "Homage to Catalonia" for free here: http://www.george-orwell.org/Homage_to_Catalonia/index.html

pnorman
On edit: once again by David Edelstadt:

"Already I can see our golden future
when the state will be crowned;
Socialist policemen will crowd every corner
From the president on his throne
To the sheriff tightening his rope
-All will be socialists
What do you say to such a happy prospect?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Edelstadt

[Hannah Bell]

8. k & r for a world where we don't have to step on others to assure

our own security.

[Echo In Light]

12. K&R He captured the true nature of the modern state:

Nothing is officially true until officially denied.

[gaspee]

13. Orwell

Definitely influenced my becoming a socialist.

[Indenturedebtor]

14. Me too. He's one of the great thinkers/speakers of history.

The more I learn of him the more I'm in awe of his work and foresight.

[lonestarnot]

15. Cool.

[T Monk]

16. the most important lesson orwell taught me is that anyone can transform oneself

for before orwell became orwell he himself was a cane wielding enforcer for empire while stationed in India

[zeemike]

19. I completely agree with Orwell but...

He also told us where socialism went wrong and we should be very aware of the mistakes of the past.
But in principle it is try that socialism is about making people happy and secure but that has never been the case. Just like capitalism all the other "isms" were soon taken over by the greedy and ruthless and made a living hell for a lot of people.
The concept of socialism must be written in the heart of the majority of people before it can and will work.

And we have seen several decades where greed and materialism has been written in the heart of the majority. And so we can only try to chang that heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

[defendandprotect]

20. Push -- Recommend ---