Is there proof about Prescott Bush and the Nazi ties?

[SnoopDog]

I wrote an article about Prescott Bush and the Nazi ties based on the Harper's article and the Guardian Article but the editor said 'prove it'. There is a whole bunch of info on the subject from a hugh selection of sources but I cannot find any solid documentation or link on this.

For instance "The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism." this from CommonDreams.org - where can I see the US National Archives doc on this?

Can anyone provide the 'direct link' to the documents or proof? Being a Liberal, a Progressive, a Democrat - I have to show proof. Any help here? How can I get a copy of the document from the US Archives?

[arcadian]

1. Copy of the Federal register

[Narraback]

3. Thank you!

[SnoopDog]

4. Do you have a link for that? That would help alot...

[arcadian]

10. Federal depository library

You can get copies of the Federal register at certain Federal depository libraries. Goto this link to see which one is closest to you:

http://catalog.gpo.gov/fdlpdir/FDLPdir.jsp

here are some links to copies of vesting order #248 that people have posted online:

http://www.mbpolitics.com/bush2000/Vesting.htm

http://www.mbpolitics.com/bush2000/VestingDetail.htm

[SpiralHawk]

36. Freaking Bush family = Nazi enablers

Ptoooey.

Some White House correspondent needs to summon up a cup full of gumption and ask Dana Perio (or Commander AWOL Bush himself) for the 'official' White House statement on Bush family Nazi ties.

[alfredo]

2. Newsweek in Poland had an article. There should be info on the

trading with the enemy charges. It was in 1942. GHW Bush joined the air force probably to polish the family name a bit.

[AlCzervik]

5. i'm recommending that if any of you can, go check out "American dynasty" by Kevin Phillips

it covers some of the controversies about Prescott Bush and investing in Germany during the military build up there. Maybe your library has it, it's a good read and it's full of info on the entire Bush clan.

[ladjf]

6. Conclusive, incontrovertible historical evidence about P. Bush's

connects to the Third Reich is all over the INTERNET and various government documents. Do diligent research and you will find all you need to back up the accusations.

Especially familiarize yourself with the Thysen company in Germany, it's connection with financing the third Reich's war machine, the financial to Bush's' bank. Check out the fact that Bush's bank was actually shutdown for a time on charges of collaborating with the enemy.

Also notice that Roosevelt chose not to carry the case forward and that Prescott Bush went on to be a regular golfing partner with Eisenhower. (Never understood that).

Do your research. You won't regret it.

[SnoopDog]

9. I am trying to do just that ladjf...

...But I cannot find indivisible proof... I find many articles that reference other articles that reference the beginning articles.

How can I see the National Archive documents?

[ladjf]

16. I last reviewed the material a couple of years ago. Note that the

poster above shows a copy of a Federal document that describes the closing of the Union Bank on charges of collaboration.

Documentation from Germany as well as the U.S. shows that the Union Bank was Thysen's U.S. money conduit and Thysen was Hitlers financier.

No one in the American Govt. or the Bush family has denied the accusations. It is accepted as fact.
The problem is that no one seems to care much about it.

Let me know what you can find.

[SpiralHawk]

37. "No one in the Bush family has denied it."

That's important. Freaking bended-knee corporate reporters need to ask about this again.

That's their job. But it seems clear the corporate media will not serve the American people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. National Archives...

and there was an article of a small paper in the east coast in 2004 that had the actual file... let me see if I can track it down

[ancient_nomad]

7. Here is one link for you to start with....

I had bookmarked it. It is a thread here by bobthedrummer (he posts some excellent threads on the BFEE as does Octafish). It is titled "2-9-2008: It's time for an updated BFEE/NAZI thread". I'll look around in my files for some of Octafish's posts, and post those in a bit.

Here is the link to bobthedrummer's thread:

http://tinyurl.com/64o82c

[hootinholler]

32. The bulk of Der Fishies BFEE posts are on his journal.

here. The letter from hell has links to the best of.

-Hoot

[PADemD]

8. There are many documentary sources in the book

"Trading with the Enemy, The Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949," by Charles Higham.

[AlCzervik]

11. have you already read this article? Within it are lots of names you can also look up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

[lligrd]

12. Here Is Some Good Info

with Newspaper names and dates that can be verified.

http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/

BUSH-NAZI LINK CONFIRMED


Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's
Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor

by John Buchanan (Exclusive to the New Hampshire Gazette)


WASHINGTON - After 60 years of inattention and even denial
by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in
The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that
Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush,
served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative
for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926
until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush
and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according
to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to
conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz
Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s,
personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion
of democratic principle and German law.

<snip>

The unraveling of the web of Bush-Harriman-Thyssen U.S.
enterprises, all of which operated out of the same suite of
offices at 39 Broadway in New York under the supervision of
Prescott Bush, began with a story that ran simultaneously in
the New York Herald-Tribune and Washington Post on July 31,
1941. By then, the U.S. had been at war with Germany for
nearly eight months.

[Hekate]

13. Do original research from books and documents. Some pointers here...

First, google "Books on Prescott Bush Nazi ties". Second, find out what book/author just came out that was based on the National Archives and Library of Congress research, and get that book. Third, the Library of Congress and National Archives are public records available to citizen-researchers. They are in Washington DC, and I don't know how you access them except by going in person, but you should start by writing to the Librarian and the Archivist in order to find out. Or google their websites to find out.

What you want in a published article is some indication that you are using respectable verifiable sources. Blogs and so forth are often emotional opinion -- in order for them to be useful you have to check *their* sources.

When I googled I got 57,800 citations, some of them duplicates, as is common. The urls I give you look like they would be worthwhile reading to see what sources the authors are using. The ones I quote seem to have more meat and cite sources up front.

The last one that I quote from, which I found on Google page 3, says something very interesting. Someone did a LOT of digging in the National Archives to prove what was true and what was still unsubstantiated rumor. THAT person is the source you want to be using. Copy it fast, because I quote too many paragraphs to make the mods happy.

Best of luck!

Hekate
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From google
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/051808.html

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8783

http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bush-nazilinkconfirmed.htm
Bush- Nazi Link Confirmed
by John Buchanan, The New Hampshire Gazette, October 10, 2003
WASHINGTON - After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners. <snip>

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-24-2004-59693.asp
How Bush's Grandfather Helped Hitler's Rise to Power

Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president. George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism. His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

<snip>
Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement. All three are readily available, thanks to the efficient US archive system and a helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.

The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress, show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Thyssen.

The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, are contained in vesting order number 248 which records the seizure of the company assets. What these files show is that on October 20 1942 the alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation. By November, the Silesian-American Company, another of Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, are contained in the files on IG Farben, who was prosecuted for war crimes.

<snip>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[SnoopDog]

14. Thanks everybody... but...

I linked everywhere you all suggested but my problem is that I cannot get to a credible original source. The originating sources all reference the 'newly discovered National Archive' documents - that is what I am after. Do I have to go to Washington to read them?

[ancient_nomad]

20. Just found this info in Wiki on National Archives...

Perhaps it will help you....

Public-private partnerships

The National Archives aims to make its holdings more widely available and more easily accessible by entering into public-private partnerships. In 2006, NARA announced a joint-venture with Google to digitize and offer NARA video online. This pilot program represents an evolutionary step for the National Archives to achieve its goal of becoming an archives without walls, as explained in the NARA press release. This innovative partnership is just one step in a strategic plan which emphasizes the importance of providing access to records anytime, anywhere. This is one of many initiatives that NARA is launching to expand opportunities for the public to be able to view NARA's collections.<6>

In early 2007, the National Archives and Footnote launched a pilot project to digitize historic documents. The NARA press release explained that this partnership will allow much greater access to approximately 4.5 million pages of important documents that are currently available only in their original format or on microfilm. No less important, the digitization of documents will also enhance NARA's efforts to preserve its original records.<7>

In late 2007, the National Archives announced it would make thousands of historical films available for purchase through CreateSpace (an Amazon.com subsidiary) which specializes in on-demand distribution of DVDs, CDs and books. The NARA press release emphasized the potential benefits for the public-at-large and for the National Archives. At NARA facilities, the public can continue to view films and even copy them at no charge; and this new program will make NARA's holdings much more accessible to those who cannot travel to the Washington, DC area. At the same time, the NARA-CreateSpace partnership will provide the National Archives with digital reference and preservation copies of the films as part of NARA's preservation program.<8>

[gatorboy]

21. They're all over actually.

http://www.archives.gov/locations/

I suppose you could email one of the writers of these articles on Prescott and ask specifically where these documents are located they used for reference. If the documents are in the National Archives, you should be able tosee them. After all, you own them (Well except the 3% theywill always keep to themselves). :)

[lligrd]

23. From Salon

The ownership of CSSC changed hands several times in the 1930s, but documents from the U.S. National Archive declassified last year link Bush to CSSC, although it is not clear if he and UBC were still involved in the company when Thyssen's American assets were seized in 1942. Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement.

All three are readily available, thanks to the efficient U.S. archive system and a helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.

The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress, show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Thyssen.

The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, is contained in vesting order No. 248, which records the seizure of company assets. What these files show is that on Oct. 20, 1942, the alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the Holland-American Trading Corp. and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corp. By November, the Silesian-American Co., another of Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, is contained in the files on IG Farben, which was prosecuted for war crimes.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/09/27/finance_nazis/

[arcadian]

24. If you can't make it to Washington

You can hire a researcher to pull the documents you wish to request. They will either copy them or photograph them. It's not the Archives(museum stuff, tour buses) down on the Mall by the way, it's the one at the University of Maryland(boring stuff ;-), geeks).

[lligrd]

25. Here Are Some Online Search Tools For The Archives

http://www.archives.gov/research/tools/checklist.html

[magellan]

26. You've probably seen this article from 2004 The Guardian

It spells out what documents and where they are:

"Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement. All three are readily available, thanks to the efficient US archive system and a helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.

"The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress, show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Thyssen.

"The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, are contained in vesting order number 248 which records the seizure of the company assets. What these files show is that on October 20 1942 the alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation. By November, the Silesian-American Company, another of Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

"The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, are contained in the files on IG Farben, who was prosecuted for war crimes."

Here is how to request copies of documents from the National Archive: http://www.archives.gov/research/order/#other

And I'm not sure if they're all under his name as there were two Harriman brothers, but do a search at the Library of Congress for Harriman (William Averell):
http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?PAGE=sbSearch&SEQ=20080523004455&PID=EyaBUiCCfEUei-hVelNdY3BD4OqT

I'm sure their website explains somewhere how to make queries and get copies.

[SnoopDog]

29. Thank you so much magelian - this is what I am after....

Thanks for hitting me on my head to tell me to just request the documents... I can do that....

I was hoping that somebody published them but maybe they cannot be published.

[magellan]

31. S'all right

Even if somebody had published them, you'd likely still be held to the same exacting standards by your editor: get original copies. You can't do better than to get them from the source.

[hootinholler]

33. If they are in the National Archives...

By definition they are public works and are therefore in the public domain.

-Hoot

[ancient_nomad]

15. Link to one of Octafish's Threads:

Link:
http://tinyurl.com/3cpfh6

SNIP....
Before World War II, Bushes, Dulleses, and Harrimans helped arm Hitler.



The Bush Family Fortune

Gramps made nice with some not very nice people in the '30s

by James Ridgeway
Village Voice -- Mondo Washington
September 28th, 2004 11:20 AM

the chainsaw-wielding Texas rancher, the blue blood of Connecticut runs deep. But not so many people know that there are a couple of rocks to be turned over in the Bush family history.
Prescott Bush, sometimes described as a progressive Republican senator from Connecticut and often described as the man who looked like he should be president, turns out to have been a creepy front man for industrialists who bankrolled and built the Nazi war machine.

Over the weekend, The Guardian (U.K.) set out in a lengthy story based on files in the National Archives the story of how in the '30s, young Prescott Bush, with the help of his father, got together with Averill Harriman, son of the railroad scion E.H. Harriman, and set up a company called UBC (Union Banking Corporation). Bush was a founder and director and owned one share, valued at $125. As it turned out, UBC was an American shell company for the Thyssen family interests. The Thyssens were a preeminent German business family that dominated the nation's iron and steel and coal businesses and were crucial to bankrolling and building the Nazi war machine. UBC was a shell, owned by a Netherlands bank, with anonymous real owners who, on further inspection, turned out to be the Thyssens.

Young Fritz Thyssen was infatuated with Hitler and joined the Nazi party in 1931. When the Nazis were having a hard time, he bailed them out financially. By the late '30s, along with Harriman's Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the world's largest investment bank, Bush had bought and shipped millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal, and U.S. treasury bonds to Germany. In addition, it appears that Bush may have had ties to the Consolidated Silesian Steel Company, which during the war used slave labor from the Nazis' concentration camps. He might also have been involved through the Thyssens in another company that was linked to the chemical giant I.G. Farben, which used slave labor.

There was nothing illegal or even unusual about doing business with the Germans in the '30s before war broke out; numerous American companies had holdings in Germany during that era. The issue with Prescott Bush is whether he had actually owned shares in the Thyssen enterprise or was just holding them in a shell for the German owners. U.S. investigations never answered the question, and no one ever brought any charges.

CONTINUED...

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0439,mondo3,57129,6.ht...

[ancient_nomad]

17. Here are some more links to Octafish's posts.....

There is a lot of info in them...lots of reading....hope you find some things you can use. All of Octafish's posts are well documented with links. He rocks!



Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn't win WWII, so they / Bushes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Know your BFEE: War Profiteers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Know your BFEE: Reinhard Gehlen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[PADemD]

34. None of your links work

[Octafish]

35. Here ya go...

Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=872755


Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1547206&mesg_id=1547206


Know your BFEE: Like a NAZI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=133897


Know your BFEE: War Profiteers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3493251


Know your BFEE: Reinhard Gehlen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4863411&mesg_id=4863411

[jwirr]

18. Here in the archives are the numbers of the National Archives boxes

20 or more that hold the documents from the trials that took place in 1942. They are under my user name if that helps. I did not tell what was in each one but the numbers are there. FDR had him and several other business leaders tried for aiding and abetting an enemy. It is all there in black and white. However, for the actual proof you probably have to go to the Archives in DC.

[Baby Snooks]

22. The National Archives

I'm not sure how you obtain information. Supposedly it's like a library but you are not allowed to do anything but view the documents. To be honest, I am not sure where they are. I suspect you have to request the documents through the Library of Congress.

Old newspapers probably carried part of the story particularly about the bank. The Harrimans rarely if ever discussed it. Supposedly Roland claimed he knew nothing as did Averell. Given the duplicity of the Bushes that is entirely possible. The Bushes of course have done well with the "private" banks. Jonathan Bush owned a bank in Connecticutt that was bought by Riggs Bank. No doubt that explained why the Riggs Bank investigation just suddenly went off the radar. Particularly after it was disclosed that Princess Haifa had used an account at Riggs Bank to write checks to the "poor Saudi family" in San Diego which then gave the cash to several of the 9/11 hijackers.

The Bushes of course have never responded to the various stories that have appeared from time to time. And never will.

++

[SnoopDog]

27. I would have thought that the authors would have copied the important docs

.... from the National Archives.

Again, thanks to everyone...

Sometimes it's hard being a democrat - truth, fairness, and honesty is the cornerstone of our party...

I have to locate the National Archive articles to resubmit my article on Prescott Bush... (don;t doubt it for a second - just need the proof)

[arcadian]

28. Papers of Prescott Bush at University of Connecticutt

http://www.lib.uconn.edu/online/research/speclib/ASC/findaids/Bush_PS/MSS19910001.html

[opihimoimoi]

30. We been talking about this subject for YEARS....since 2001 when I got on DU

I recall PBush being linked to them Nazis

[Echo In Light]

38. It seems to be one of those barn burners that many are hesitant to speak about

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. You will find copies of some of the documents here. They are posted by

Random House to back-up Kitty Kelly's book. Scroll down and you'll find them.

http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/thefamily/extras_documents.php