Should women be allowed to play for the NFL and other "male" sports?

[ccharles000]

Poll question: Should women be allowed to play for the NFL and other "male" sports?

Should women be allowed to play for the NFL and other "male" sports?

I think yes.

[Double T]

1. YES, BUT contact sports are far too brutal.

[Demonaut]

2. that leaves golf and curling

let them try everything.....like men who can't cut it some will be weeded out early

[KamaAina]

83. And bowling, where Liz Johnson actually won a minor title against men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Johnson

Not to be denied the opportunity to bowl in professional competition, Johnson became a member of the Professional Bowlers Association (PBA) — generally regarded as the "men's tour." Early in the 2004-05 season, she made history by becoming the first woman to qualify for a standard PBA tour event, making the Round of 64 at the 2004 Uniroyal Tire Classic. Later that season, she raised the bar even higher by becoming the first woman to make the televised finals of a PBA event (2005 Banquet Open). She won her semifinal match in that event over Wes Malott by a score of 235-228. But she was unable to complete the quest for a title, falling, 219-192, to eventual PBA Player of the Year Tommy Jones in the final match.

Johnson posted another "first" in the summer of 2005 — becoming the first woman to win a PBA event, as she captured the title in a regional tour stop (2005 East Region Kingpin Lanes Open). To win that tournament, she had to defeat four-time PBA titleist Ryan Shafer in the semifinal, and PBA tour veteran Michael Fagan in the finals.

[Echo In Light]

4. But isn't the point that people ENJOY "brutal" sports, hence women also want to join in?

[Double T]

10. I DON'T think YOU want women dismembered attempting to play NFL football.

[Echo In Light]

13. I voted "don't care," and hold to that...although the I find the cultural motivators revealing

[Dogtown]

48. Self delete

Deleted

[Hobarticus]

51. Nice five-cent psychiatry...

Good to see Lucy Van Pelt no longer corners the market, there.

[Double T]

55. ....'smells like an emotional problem'? That is funny as hell.

I am a BIG FAN of Danica Patrick and hope she WINS every race. I'm sick and tired of the good ol' boy SHT, on the race track and specially in Congress and the WH!

[Dogtown]

59. Self delete

deleted

[Double T]

66. From the list of NFL injuries each week, the larger question is.........

WHY would ANYONE want to play NFL football?

[Dogtown]

67. Public apology.

I'm being a jerk, so I'll take a time-out.

Sorry

[Lorien]

70. Why don't you think that we women can make our own choices in life?

we're not fucking children. Besides, women generally endure pain better than most men do. The main reason most women don't engage in contact sports is our lower levels of testosterone, which leads us to be less aggressive. There ARE women out there who like to play football, and they don't wait for a man's permission to do so.

[ccharles000]

5. You are the captain of a football team and have to pick one.

Who would you pick?

[Goblinmonger]

9. She's in great shape and all

but nothing about that picture screams football.

[Double T]

12. Damn, you said IT!!!

[ccharles000]

16. The point was she is more fit to play football than he is.

But what do I know I don't really like sports.

[Goblinmonger]

18. Yeah, I got the point

And although he plays a "nerd" in that movie, he is in pretty good shape.

[ccharles000]

17. The point was she is more fit to play football than he is.

But what do I know I don't really like sports.

[BlooInBloo]

81. For however much can be gleaned from a picture, they both look equally useless on a football field

to me.

[Gman]

21. Umm...

pick to do what? I'd take her any day of the week!

[ccharles000]

29. play football.

[SidDithers]

35. Why do I have to pick either...

when players like this are available.



Sid

[ProfessorGAC]

80. Neither. They're BOTH Too Small

I don't know about you, but i have been to NFL training camps. Even the little guys are big. I stood right next to Devin Hester last August at Bears' camp. He's 2 inches taller than me and outweighs me by 25 pounds, and in much better condition than i am. On the team, he's a little guy. Compared to the rest of us, he's a big guy.

You've got to be big to play in the NFL or you'd get killed.


The Professor

[annabanana]

8. Well then, they're too brutal for everyone. .

Seriously.. If a woman wants to, and can pass the same physical tests that the men do, I don't see any problem. (WHY a woman would want to is another arguement)

I don't think that the rules should be changed to accomodate, however. (Of course I felt the same way about the Fire Department, being an Ample American)

[napi21]

3. Only on all womens teams. Women's basketball & soccer seem to

do just fine.

[flvegan]

6. Are there any actual written rules of employment that state players must be men?

[Goblinmonger]

11. I don't know about all sports

but I don't believe the NFL does. I seem to remember a female kicker almost making the team, but that might be the crack talking. I'll do a quick search.

ON EDIT: I was combining two things--female kickers in DI College Football and Pro Hockey Female Goaltender. Carry on.

[flvegan]

14. And IIRC the Lightning (hockey) had a female goalie.

And she was pretty good.

My point of course is that I think the term "allowed" in the OP is incorrect. I think that if a woman is the best person for a job or position, then naturally, she should get it.

[MessiahRp]

28. Manon Rheaume

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rh%C3%A9aume

[SidDithers]

36. She played 2 exhibition games for an expansion team...

as part of a publicity stunt.

She was good, but she wasn't that good.

Sid

[Morrisons Ghost]

84. Actually

No she wasn't. Her best year she had a 3.41 GAA and that was in the IHL I believe. 3.41 in the NHL makes you a mediocre to bad goalie.

[SidDithers]

86. That year, she played a total of 52 minutes in 2 games...

so it's kinda hard to judge her success in the I based on that.

And in 1994/95, the year Rheaume had that 3.41 GAA in 2 games?
Nikolai Khabibulin had a 3.41 in 26 games with the Winnipeg Jets. Some might say he turned out to be pretty good. :)

Cheers.

Sid

[Morrisons Ghost]

94. Cool

Do you follow hockey Sid? Yeah Khabibulin turned out to be pretty good,but you have to know that a 3.41 gaa is not good by any standard. The next year Manon played in 96/97 she had a 5.65 over 11 games. That being said I give her credit for having the guts to face some of those shooters at the NHL level. I believe she had to face Brett Hull! I don't think I'd want to stop his shot!:rofl: BTW...GO RED WINGS! Lord Stanley is coming home!:headbang:

[SidDithers]

98. Hell, I'm Canadian...

I'd be kicked out of the country if I didn't :)

Born & raised in Windsor, but living outside of Toronto now. Been a Wings fan all my life. Had a great uncle who won 3 cups with the Wings in the early 50's.

Cheers.

Sid

[Morrisons Ghost]

99. LOL!

Yeah they would definitely take your citizenship away! LOL! Born and raised in Michigan here myself!I might as well be Canadian! LOL! It's actually the state pasttime here as well!I was on skates before I could walk!:toast:

[MessiahRp]

27. Katie Hnida I think was her name

Colorado Buffaloes kicker who was sexually harrassed and then ended up kicking for the University of New Mexico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hnida

[Spouting Horn]

73. Finally, someone got it!

There is no rule that prohibits females from playing in the NFL, NBA or MLB.

There isn't even a rule that prohibits women from playing in the PGA (Although men cannot play in the LPGA).

[Bake]

82. If the ladies play in the PGA ...

... which tee should they use?

Bake

[Goblinmonger]

7. I have no problem with it.

I think that the NFL, for the most part, would be one of the last venues for them to be successful except for, perhaps, kicker. Simply put, those guys on the line are fucking huge. Running backs don't have short careers because they are sick of making money. Maybe there are some women out there that could keep up with that level of punishment, and, if so, have at it. I just want to watch a good game of football.

[NJmaverick]

15. It's not a question of allowed, it's a question of able

In fact if there were women that were able to play in the NFL, they would be already playing. However with out the muscle building testosterone, that isn't possible.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Shoul men be allowed to play on womens' teams?

:shrug:

[Gman]

25. No, because

the women's level is a lower level of competition. Even a male player that could not make the cut in a male sport could "excel" in an all women league thereby rendering the women's league a minor league men's league.

[The Gunslinger]

89. Nowhere is it stated that the NFL is a men's league.

I always think of golf. The LPGA is clearly a ladies golf league, while the PGA is a just a pro golf league, never stating that it is male only.

[Yupster]

100. That's my question too

If you're going to have mixed teams that's fine.

If you're going to have single sex teams that's fine.

But women able to play on men's teams and men not able to play on women's teams doesn't sound reasonable to me.

And while I'm griping, why are there women's sports (competitions?) where there is no reason for them?

Why is there a woman's world chess champion and woman's US chess champion? Do men have an advantage in chess? Could we maybe make the pieces lighter and not have sexually exclusive tournaments.

Why are there women only Poker tournaments?

[Gman]

20. Yes, but...

only if she can compete at the required level. If a woman can shut down Coby or Ginobilli, or blitz and take down Brett Favre, or swing for the fence (and it goes out) then let her play.

[LynneSin]

22. Ok my 2 cents- happy flaming

I am one that truly believes in equal rights however I'm also a major fan of Football. And no matter how equal I am, I am not capable of out performing a man in certain things just like there are things that I can do exceedingly better than a man (ie childbirth).

I love my Eagles but I also know that a majority of the positions would be almost impossible for a woman to complete equally with the men. Sure, you could easily have a woman be the punter or placekicker and perhaps there are some that argue that even QB could be done by a woman. But Football is a mens sport.

However I think there are plenty of sports out there that could be co-ed and things like Golf and Tennis come to mind.

[NewJeffCT]

49. As somebody who covered college sports (men & women) - I agree

I worked part-time as a sports reporter throughout most of the 90s.

I mostly covered basketball - men's and women's - but, also followed other sports as well.

Until the formation of the WNBA, the women's Olympic basketball team would often practice against pick-up teams of boys high school players, and would usually lose to them - it would considered a good sign for the quality of the Olympic team when they took a boys team to overtime once. Even though women's basketball has improved greatly over the past decade, I doubt even the best women's pro teams could compete against a good boys high school team... though, I am pretty sure they could defeat those pick-up teams they used to play.

[LynneSin]

50. Hell they would easily beat my old high school's baskeball team, probably college too

Nothing is worse than being a cheerleader for a sucky basketball team, which I was in college.

[Seeking Serenity]

87. I agree with the above sentiment.

I, too, am a woman, and I love football (watching). I would be very uncomfortable watching a woman trying to play in the NFL. In part because, I guess, I would fear that the high level of play would have to be lessened, but also because I would be worrying that the woman (women) would get seriously hurt. Sure, I don't want to see the men get hurt, either, but one expects that. But watching a woman get sandwiched between the likes of, say, Warren Sapp and Michael Strahan would be too much (is there such a thing as a female chauvanist?).

Heck, I don't even like the female play-by-play announcer on college games on ESPN2. It just doesn't fit for me. YMMV.

[Missy Vixen]

92. I know I can't wait to have someone 6'5" and 272 pounds after ME on a football field, huh?

Julie

[undeterred]

23. The NFL is entertainment, not sport.

[ccharles000]

24. I thought football was a sport.

[undeterred]

38. Football is a sport.

The NFL is big business entertainment which markets itself as sport. Pure sport is an end in itself, and once you throw in the million dollar salaries, it becomes degraded.

Nothing against football- but to me real sport is high school football or basketball before the days when the players cared whether anyone but their parents and friends were paying attention.

[dysfunctional press]

75. professional sports ARE entertainment.

why else would an adult get paid for playing a kid's game?

[JANdad]

31. Thats rich...

Please do tell me how it's not a sport?

[LucyParsons]

26. If they can make the team following the same standards currently in place, yes

I take humbrage at anyone saying any sport is "too rough" for women. Um... women give birth. I think we can handle it. We also don't have precious, sensitive balls to protect.

$0.02

[Goblinmonger]

30. It's always about the balls

with you women, isn't it? :P

[LucyParsons]

34. We don't really care about your balls

But you seem to care a LOT. ;)

[undeterred]

39. You can take your balls

and throw them to each other. :shrug:

[Wilber_Stool]

68. Athletes, especially football players,

have a reputation for slapping around their girlfriends and wives around. Can you imagine giving one the opportunity to hit a woman as hard as he can with little more that a 15 yard penalty? I can.

[RL3AO]

78. Gee...how much more can we generalize?

[LucyParsons]

79. Wow, are you actually making this as ar argument?

Wow.

[SidDithers]

32. If they're good enough, sure...

but that's a big IF.

Hayley Wickenheiser, widely regarded as the best female hockey player to ever play the game wasn't good enough to play in the AHL, let alone the NHL. She had to go all the way to Finland to find a men's league to match her skill level.

Manon Rheaume played 2 exhibition games in net for the Tampa Bay Lightning, but that experiment was nothing more than a publicity stunt for an expansion franchise.

If a female athlete plays men's pro sports someday, it probably won't be one of the contact sports, but more likely a skilled sport. Maybe baseball, golf or volleyball.

Sid

[erpowers]

33. Not The NFL

I do not think women should be allowed to play in the NFL, maybe some other sports like the NBA. I contend that if you look at the size of the men who play NFL it would be very hard for most females to play in the NFL. A quarterback in the NFL who is 6' tall is considered short. A women, in general, who is 6' is considered at least fairly tall. Seeing a 6'8" defensive end does not shock anyone. I contend seeing a 6'8" woman still to a degree shocks people. Add to the size difference the impact of a hit and then things are really bad. The hits from defensive ends are hard on guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and they are about 6'5" 200+lbs. The quarterbacks who play in some of the women's football leagues are about 5' and 5'3". Some may be taller, but I think it would be pretty hard to find 6'5" female quarterbacks.

In the case of the NBA I contend things would be a bit easier. Although women still have a height difference I contend the height difference can be overcome with skill. Females who would play center against women would most likely have to move to point guard or shooting guard on a team against men, but it seems size would be less of a difference. It terms of impact, there is less impact in the NBA than in the NFL.

[AngryAmish]

37. They are allowed but no woman is good enough.

World 100 meter dash record for women is about 10.5 seconds (Flo Jo). I think that is about a minimum for a cornerback or wide receiver (most speed intensive positions) in the NFL while many are much faster.

Women have less bone mass, muscle mass and upper body strength. (On average).

They just don't have the physical make up to play (on average).

If a woman could do it then they should be allowed.

[twiceshy]

40. It's all about the bell curve...

The men who make it to that level are the 1% of the 1% of the 1% at each level they played at from grade school on up. They are exceptional athletes who would be found on the far right side of a bell curve representing physical capabilities. While there may be a few women represented out there on the third standard deviation from the norm, I would say it is a tiny percentage. For football maybe zero.

[El Pinko]

41. Yes, if they can make the cut without special treatment.

I honestly can't see women being able to make inroads into men's pro football.

Why would they want to anyway?

[Kali]

42. this actually turned out to be an interesting thread

my initial reaction was "who cares" - I don't care much for organized sports - I do a lot of hard physical WORK and personally resent folks getting paid insane amounts of money to play games (yes I know not all get the big bucks, not the point)

but yeah if they can compete, of course they should be "allowed" average physiologies would dictate that highly unlikely for big time football.

[dawgman]

43. If they are good enough to compete then by all means

[noonwitch]

44. I don't really see where women could compete in the NFL or NBA, but the NHL?

I could see a female playing goalie in the NHL. But there aren't too many women out there who could take a hit from the average defenseman.

Women aren't large enough, for the most part, to play in the NFL or NBA. But if one is, and can compete, she should be able to try out.

[northzax]

52. i don't know

she would have to have come up playing with boys/men the whole way. the men's game is so much faster and more brutal, you can't learn to stop a Brett Hull slapshot, it has to be instinct. I just don't think the system will allow someone to develop well enough.

I think we can rule out Football and Basketball, baseball is a possibility, I suppose. Soccer is out (the best female player in the world, Marta, wouldn't make an MLS reserve team, not that she doesn't have the foot skills, but she's simply not strong enough or fast enough.

[Occam Bandage]

65. Baseball isn't really a possibility either.

First, a woman isn't going to be able to get the batspeed required for MLB pitching. The absolute best-of-the-best fastpitch softball pitchers can hit 70mph. A major league pitcher can usually throw over 90. If you're having difficulty tracking and hitting a 67mph ball, you're not going to be able to hit a 97mph ball. She'd be at a huge disadvantage at so much as getting around on the ball--and once she makes contact, she's going to have difficulty driving it.

Second, pitching is totally and completely out of the question (see above.)

As for her fielding? Well, without exceptional foot speed and/or arm strength (depending on position), LF, RF, CF, SS, C, and 3B are completely out of the question. 2B would be fine, except she couldn't turn a double play. She could handle 1B just fine. Problem is, anybody can play 1B, meaning it's the position for lumbering sluggers.

[SidDithers]

71. Except a fastpitch mound is only 40' away from the batter...

instead of 60'6" in pro baseball.

40ft at 70mph is .39 seconds
60.5ft at 97mph is .425 seconds

So fastpitch hitters actually have to react more quickly than than baseball hitters.

Sid

[RL3AO]

72. Bat speed might be an issue to hit the ball far, but reaction time isn't.

Fast pitch softball: Top pitch speed about 75 mph. Pitching plate to home plate 43 feet. By the time they release the ball, its about 39 feet.
Baseball: Top pitch speed about 100 mph. Pitching plate to home plate 60.5 feet. By the time they release the ball, its about 59 feet.

Release to home plate time
Softball: 354 milliseconds
Baseball: 401 milliseconds

[northzax]

76. not neccesarily a fair comparison

first off, there is no mound in fast pitch softball, second off, the rubber is only 40 feet from home, not 59'. Third, you get much more action on an underhand pitch than an overhand one.

it is signififcantly harder to hit a fastpitch softball from a world class pitcher than from an equivalent baseball pitcher. Sorry, but at 70mph, it takes .38 seconds for a softball to reach home. at 95 mph, it takes .42 seconds for a baseball to reach home. that's a ten percent difference.

[NewJeffCT]

45. The NFL would love it if a woman was good enough

You know how much publicity they would get for the first woman player? Of course, people would likely know about her already, since she likely would have competed at one of the big football factory colleges.

However, the reality is that even the most elite of women's athletes aren't physically strong & fast enough to compete at that level.

[MedleyMisty]

46. I don't know so much about "be allowed"

But the choice should be available to us.

[The Stranger]

47. PAGING ANDY KAUFMAN . . . THE "INTER-GENDER CHAMPION" . . .

[Phoonzang]

53. If they want to get slammed by a 300 pound linebacker

go ahead. It's not going to happen, but whatev. I answered I don't care.

[timtom]

54. If they want to.

I am totally uninvolved in sports, so it makes no odds to me.

[BlooInBloo]

56. (shrug) Sure, if they're able. Which'll never happen...

I suppose it's theoretically possible for a woman to achieve an NFL level of kicking ability, but that strains credulity as well.

It's no insult to women, of course, since these games are designed by men for men. The relevance of the typical differences between men and women is built into the very game. A contrast is mathematics, where the differences between men and women are NOT built into the game, and aren't even relevant in the first place.

[Hobarticus]

57. It's not a matter of allowed, but whether or not they could even compete...

If you can find a woman who can stop a back like Reggie Bush, punch through the Colts d-line, or take a hit from Rodney Harrison while jumping for a reception,....hey, hats off to her and suit her up. Don't know too many guys who could.

[Bill McBlueState]

58. Why not?

It's odd that so many people are equating "women shouldn't be allowed" with "women may be unlikely to qualify."

Pro teams try to assemble the best players they can get with the money they have. If one of those players happens to be a woman, then why wouldn't she be allowed to play? To prevent a team from fielding its best players would dilute the competitive strength of the league.

[Occam Bandage]

60. Yeah, sure. If there are any women who are capable of playing at a competitive level.

That is to say, not in the foreseeable future.

[RL3AO]

61. I don't think there is anything that says they can't.

Just have to be good enough. Who knows, maybe we will see a female kicker someday in the NFL.

[geomon666]

62. There are a few women's football leagues running today.

Such as the Women's Professional Football League, the National Women's Football Association, and the Independent Women's Football League that are full contact with slight differences in rules compared to the NFL.

I don't think you'll ever see a woman playing in the NFL, outside of kicking. Women just don't have the size and speed, in my opinion.

[LucyParsons]

63. I'm a 5'1" woman

Why isn't there a football league I can play in??????

[RL3AO]

64. There are.

http://www.womensprofootball.com/
http://www.womensfootballcentral.com/
http://iwflsports.com/
http://www.wfleague.com/

[LucyParsons]

74. Most of those women are really tall.

I am aware of those leagues. I don't understand why we don't have various size leagues like in boxing. For men and women.

:shrug:

[sammythecat]

107. It might be a matter of expense and venue.

Football equipment is expensive and too many leagues would might create problems like who has to play at the crappy field on Tuesdays.

If I had to pick one problem, I'd say expense would be the biggest hurdle. It takes a fair amount of money to support a football team. It's too bad, because of that most kids never get to experience playing a "real" game of football.

[slackmaster]

69. Very few men are strong and tough enough to survive playing professional football

Far fewer women would be able to do it.

I think the question is moot.

[yurbud]

77. think what it would do to the knuckledraggers to see a woman trounce their favorite jock

It might shock them into the 21st Century.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

85. Should men be allowed to play in womens leagues?

[The Gunslinger]

88. Why not

If they have the talent to make the cut, There is no reason why not.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

90. If they can take it and have the skills I have no objection

I have to admit that I do not watch women's boxing. I hate to see beautiful faces get beaten in, but that's just me. But just because I personally don't care to see women engage in brutal contact sports doesn't mean that I want to see them banned. I don't. I think there might come a day when a top female boxer faces a male boxer. That would be something I would probably watch just for the uniqueness of the event. And I'd probably be pulling for the lady.

[cbc5g]

91. Should women be put in the same dorm room with males? n/t

[Rhythm]

104. Already happens at some schools... what's your point?

Do males and females living behind the same door automatically equal 'hanky panky' in your world?

[Fox Mulder]

93. Absolutely.

Why not?

[aikoaiko]

95. I know some Iowa woman who would make fine defensive lines.

yes, and I think it would be interesting to see how well they do.

[BigDaddy44]

96. They ARE allowed to

There's no prohibition at all. And as soon as one of them is good enough to make it, they will.

[Thothmes]

97. Voted yes.

If she can compete successfully, with the men on those teams for the starting slots, let her try.

[ogsbee]

101. Absolutely not. There are separate male and female spheres in life

A contact sport with large elements of brute force is part of the male universe. It would be a totally different sport if coed.

Danica Patrick has certainly proved she belongs in professional racing, but a car essentially separates the contestants. She doe not prove however, IMO, that there is no difference between males and females as I've heard her say. Men are simply, on average, more aggressive, violent and muscular. Where are the female motorcycle riders? They exist, but at a much lower percentage than their general numbers.

To any young people reading this, to avoid a world of misunderstanding and a world of hurt please don't fall for the liberal fallacy that gender differences aren't deep. I grew up thinking that. I now think that men and women are very different emotionally and psychologically and often even view the same situations and events totally differently. IMO, there is essentially a culture of men and a culture of women.

[blondeatlast]

102. Sheesh; wish I could put the "eyeroll" smiley in the SL. nt

[Strawman]

103. Lions fans will take any help we can find regardless of the athlete's sex

[Rhythm]

105. I'd come up there and help them out as long as...

I don't have to cheer for the Red Wings too!

:hide:

[Odious justice]

106. true true true

[RB TexLa]

108. If they have the physical abilities, of course. They should be in combat as well.

A rule prohibiting combat in our military based on gender is no different than one prohibiting it based on race.