Stealing '08 - Greg Palast video

[DaDooRonRon]

Here is a 15 minute clip of Palast reviewing the '04 theft and reminding everyone that it WILL happen again if Rove et al are allowed to game the voting rolls again.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/327.html

[mac2]

1. It's already been stolen

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2912.shtml

[Echo In Light]

2. Classic example of an important, largely ignored post @DU

Palast is solid as always. K&R

[Highway61]

3. Oh, how true.

Doesn't fit into the category of "my candidate is better than yours." and while they are all bickering, the right-wing shenanigans continue...Folks here and everywhere else better wake the fuck up...before all that is left for the working class is a broken down bicycle and a can of Spam.

[Echo In Light]

4. Don't hold your breath - people need to believe the Name Brand, "electable" candidate they "like"...

...is actually going to make a substantive difference in the demise of this empire ... to which I say, good luck with that.

[Highway61]

5. right on

I used to come to DU knowing that I would get a dose of "normal"...not so lately. Maybe it's due to a a lot of freepers here...I've never seen so much division....not good. I'm almost paranoid that this DNC debacle was masterminded by Rove himself.

[DaDooRonRon]

7. Do I detect a wee bit of cynicism in your voice?

Damn, I hope so - I need some company. :)

[DaDooRonRon]

6. Absolutely

Neither candidate is talking about election reform, or instant run off, or open debates, or anything of the sort.

Of course, none of them ever will - why kill the (two-party) Golden Goose? Why let the emperor be seen without clothes?

One would think that would be the sort of thing that a "progressive" would support, but it's just one giant Ken-L-Ration commercial ("my dog's better than your dog, my dog's better than yours") around here.

We'll get to that election stuff later - right now it's "let's go <fill in the blank>!"

Then again, if we "win" why even bother?

[Echo In Light]

9. Well, the small differences between a dem or rep prez can be substantial on a social scale, so it's

...important of course to get as many as possible to vote dem, within the confines of this rigged system...certainly not without its many drawbacks, which are systematic conveniences for the one corporate political party in America.

I mean, just the idea of a "president" {actor/corporate puppet-king-figurehead} who is in charge of a country of three-hundred million is patently absurd to the nth degree, and I'd obviously sooner see open, unregulated/managed debates, open to third party candidates, etc, but that will never happen within the current state of the public mind - that could change - but it's a very marginal hope.

[DaDooRonRon]

20. At this time in my life, I must subscribe to the one step at a time adage

It HAS to change, and I KNOW I am not doing any good at all by working within a rigged system.

The only way to help change the public mind is to work as hard as one can to allow them informed choices.

If that means opting out of a rigged game, so be it. I KNOW I am not helping to elect the "bad guy" - rather I am helping to elect the good one. I'd argue that those who cling to progressive ideas but vote for mainstream corporatists are the problem, but alas that is a discussion for another day and another message board.

A long long time ago, when I was very active in actual grass root organizing, I had a bumper sticker on my car that read:

"Don't vote - it only encourages them."

When I see corporate Tweedledum and Tweedledee choices pretending to be looking out for my (and your) interests I am reminded of that.

[Echo In Light]

37. I agree with your sentiment

One of the numerous problems presented by such a rabid Bush/Cheney admin/agenda is a subsequent result in fewer people willing to consider breaking free of the two party monopoly, and backing third party candidates - they're too freaked by the likes of the current fascists running the show and so naturally gravitate to the flipside Big Name a la Mighty Mouse {"Here I come to save the daaaayyyy..."}

However, the upshot is how such an awful thing as Bushco prompts many more to become aware, politically and morally, perceiving the place of their country in world's eyes, the less fortunate, and so forth. So maybe if we're more or less stuck with an "electable" dem, it may hopefully help foster that collectively activist minded charge down the line, and enable a social climate more tolerant of, and wanting of, alternative views.

[cali]

12. Really? Why did the pukes miss the opportunity for three easy steals

in special Congressional election this spring in heavily repuke districts? I'd love it if someone could explain that to me.

[blm]

19. Harder to steal elections when party attention is FOCUSED on a smaller race.

.

[cali]

22. not buying that.

common sense dictates that it's actually more difficult to steal several jurisdictions in a national race. Furthermore, the scrutiny will be greater in November than it was in any of those 3 races.

[blm]

25. Common sense sez when attention is divided amongst thousands of counties

at a time instead of one or two....

Sorry cali, but your view is absurd on this. There is also a HUGE difference between what BushInc will do for themselves and their own power and the risk they'd take in a small election.

[LaPera]

35. Kick! The republicans are only getting better at sealing it....

[helderheid]

8. rec 3

[blm]

10. If 08 is allowed to be stolen, I will be very pissed at the DNC because they've had 4yrs

to assure the vote suppression tactics of the RNC and GOP officials are COUNTERED by an alert team of election legal experts state by state.

McAuliffe had no interest in Dem votes being secured in 2002 and 2004 - he had Hillary2008 to plan for.

But, many of us expect an alert and watchful DNC under Chairman Dean - one that has measures in place well BEFORE votes start being cast.

I think it is seriously unfortunate that TeamClinton has kept bogus issues at the forefront this past year, preventing the DNC from CONCENTRATING its focus on what should be its greatest priority at this point - protecting the votes of Dem candidates and voters at EVERY LEVEL where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

[Echo In Light]

11. If they do pull it off, America will keep Right on dozzzzzing, while conspiracy deniers will...

Be online ranting over how terribly embarrassed they are that such foolish notions are taken seriously at all.

[DaDooRonRon]

17. The "legal experts" efforts are foolish

The key here is that both VOTERS and VOTES are targeted by the Republican party.

There can be 10 million poll watchers and they will do no good at all - the key is in the counting, and the number of voters who are "allowed" to vote. If you are scrubbed from the rolls beforehand it matters little that someone is watching out for you come election day - what are you going to do - vote provisionally? Oh yeah, THOSE are secure. :rofl:

With regard to Dean and the DNC - don't hold your breath. Clinton has very little if anything to do with the refusal of any mainstream Dem organization to attack the problem of rigged elections. Honestly, I don't think it is a priority, because (honestly) I don't think many of them would believe a thing Palast said if you shoved the info under their noses.

Sad to say but Repubs are years ahead in the area of manipulating the vote.

It should be noted here that the only folks making noise about election reform are those outside of the two-party system.

edit: Whether or not '08 is stolen is not really the issue. The problem is that they will TRY. McCain may turn out to be such a bumbling fool that a sudden poll reversal would raise too many flags. Better to fight on at another time - as long as the carnies have rigged the games and the voters keeps feeding them dollar bills.

[blm]

18. I specified the countermeasures that need to be done NOW at the levels where the votes are allowed,

cast AND counted. I did not submit that election legal experts would be a force only to count the votes - the election experts to need to be working NOW to counter the tactics the RNC has been using all alomg, including their manipulation of the officials and the systems state by state.

The elections are stolen BEFORE the votes are cast and counted. RNC gets away with it because too many Dems buy into the lie that the Dem nominee bears the responsibility for the votecount on election night. The Dem nominee can only tap into the systm and the infrastructure that EXISTS in each state and as overseen by the DNC, its leadership and its priorities.

[DaDooRonRon]

21. What are your suggestions?

I see no clamoring for hand counting, I see no efforts made to go after caging lists and fraudulent challenges.

I think we share the same sense of outrage, but I maintain that the DNC or any Democratic Party organization has NO interest in election integrity.

If they did, then one or both candidates would be speaking out about it, the national Dem party would be front and center will a NATIONAL plan, there would be bills in the Congress mandating instant run-off voting, and the like.

They really don't care about it. You watch, if they win nationally in '08 the issue will be buried so deep you'll need 10 excavators to find it.

[lonestarnot]

23. That's it? Very pissed at the DMC? That's all you'll be? OMG

:wtf:

[blm]

26. Heh...of course that's not all. But, I'll assess blame where it belongs FIRST and foremost.

and that would be with a DNC and the Dem party infrastructure that has been alerted to a helluva lot of information about the RNC tactics used to steal elections by now.

[helderheid]

13. SOMEBODAY give this a 5th rec. While you're at it, give this other thread a rec 5 too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6181254&mesg_id=6181254

[Echo In Light]

14. Handled

[helderheid]

15. Thank you!

:hi:

[helderheid]

16. REC THIS THREAD!

:hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. Highly recommended.

[redqueen]

27. K&R

[crickets]

28. K&R - Keep it kicked.

Thank you, Greg Palast, and thanks DaDooRonRon for posting the link.

:kick:

[redqueen]

29. ...

:kick:

[lonestarnot]

30. K & R

[crickets]

31. Palast explains the connection to the attorney firings - Kick.

[lonestarnot]

32. kick

[emlev]

33. kick

[GreenTea]

34. This is really truly real....The republican fascist aren't going to let the voters decide

to dismantle what the corporates & haters of the Constitution have "achieved" they won't give up....the republicans plan to steal it, that's their only ace and they know it and will play it!

Once announced.....near impossible to overturn it as we have seen....we are all at the mercy of the easily hackable, untraceable voting machines results (which more than 85% of the people will be voting on)....the republicans will keep it close, and portray the idiot, flip-flopper McCain as a moderate, as they did with Bush, twice!

Republican owned the ES&S - Diebold voting machines and have proven they can do it, yet the Dems are quiet & ignorant on this, so why not?

Hardly a word is being spoken about it...just as the republicans want it!

[New Dawn]

36. K&R

[crickets]

38. Kick