VERY interesting (non sensational) aspect of that crane collapse in NYC

[Stinky The Clown]

Some guy was just on the air talking about the larger issue in the construction trades - a lack of labor. I'm not sure who he was since I wasn't really paying attention until he said what he said about the labor shortage.

It is his view that the trades are lacking young people. The average age in the trades in NYC (at least) is 47 years old. The average age of supervisors is older. Further, he said, there is an overall labor shortage that has gotten to a near critical level in the last few years.

My own head went right to 'illegal immigrants' as I listened to him.

I'm not nearly as familiar with the NYC trades as I am with those in the DC/Baltimore area. Down here there are many young people in the trades, and many of them (far, far more than in the population in general) are Hispanic. NYC is a union town. DC is not. Baltimore is so-so.

I'm wondering if the labor shortage the guy was talking about is an unintended consequence of the widespread toxic atmosphere around the country's general acceptance of short statured brown skinned people. That could mean official bias against them or it could mean personal and union antipathy toward them.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything ...... but it sure does me cause to think about it.

[bbernardini]

1. I heard Rachael Ray was seen throwing donuts at the crane before the collapse. nt

[Javaman]

10. I hate those donuts so much!!!! nt

[JHB]

11. Well, Michelle Malkin says Ray's in league with jihadis. She know this...

...becuase Dunkin Donuts makes their coffee from arabica beans!

[On the Road]

2. Unions May Do Better Screening for Immigration Status Than Private Employers

if that's what you were getting at. Unions definitely screen out illegals (are green card holders allowed?)

If construction in DC and Baltimore were limited to US citizens, there might be a labor shortage, too.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Honestly, I'm not sure *what* I'm getting at

Except that when I hear 'labor shortage' my jaw drops. Something is causing that and it isn't for any actual lack of actual people looking for actual jobs.

[Tesha]

4. I suspect that "speedups" are at work here.

Doubtless the construction trades are just like
everywhere else and management expects fewer and
fewer people to do more and more work faster and
faster.

Well, sometimes, especially when sophisticated,
safety-critical processes are involved, that's
not such a bright idea.

Tesha

[tonkatoy57]

5. Perhaps...

My experience with union activities is several decades old. I offer that as a caveat to what I'm going to say.

I found that, in some ways, the union I was familiar with was sometimes as insulated, hierarchical, snobbish, and suspicious of outsiders as any tony, tree shaded country club.

Yes,part of their function was to provide employers with well trained and qualified people, but they sometimes operated in a way that wasn't in their long term interest.

Having said that, perhaps it's a generational and demographic thing and change will come, albeit, slower than is best for the trade unions.

In the city I live in, for instance, police were all Catholic and German, then Catholic and Italian. Now the police department is at least 50% black.

As demographics change power and membership in trade unions will shift.

[Dogtown]

6. Union Vs "Right to Work"

In a union town like NYC, you have to be certified by the union to do certain types of work. This ensures that the guy installing your plumbing knows to make a gradient in the pipes.

In a non-union state like Georgia, I have to rewire my entire house because if I blow a fuse with my toaster in the 1st floor rear, the 2nd store front bedroom light goes out.
The entire house is on 2 meandering circuits.

Unions educate young people in the trades through apprenticeship. You get hired on as an apprentice/laborer and you tote tiles or mix mud for most of the day and learn to cut and lay tile the rest. You're paid a nicely livable wage whilst doing this.
In time you learn enough to be a jorneyman, then a master. Then you make a good living and you don't mix mud.

Republicans hate unions. They want to hire cheap labor, and to keep them in poverty without allowing them to learn or grow.
They want to sell you a house made of sub par materials, erected with shoddy workmanship. That way, they get all the profit from the laborers without having to share anything with the laborers.

If there's a labor shortage in NYC, it's because our class-conscious culture ius telling our youngsters that blue-collar=bad, white collar=good. It's harder to recruit apprentices, unions will *not* break the law by hiring illegals; and we are running out of master craftsman.

St. Ronnie broke the machine and I'm afraid it can't be fixed.

I don't think xenophobia enters in here; their economics has just finally trickled down and it smells like an old man's pee.

[leftofthedial]

7. it is a direct consequence of the pervasive anti-union attitude

carefully crafted by the oligarchy over the last generation as a part of their class war

any place with a vestige of unionism suffers

[notesdev]

8. There's no labor shortage

there's a "willingness to pay a decent wage for good workers" shortage.

Companies have been operating on the cheap with illegals for so long, it's going to be a serious shock to the system to go back to paying Americans decent wages. Sort of like the South after the Civil War producing cotton without slaves.

[JHB]

9. Part of it may be the type and amount of construction work involved

I can't claim any particular knowledge about the construction industry and the construction trade unions here, but from an "average schmuck on the street" perspective, there's still a construction boom going on in the area (both in NYC proper and across the river in Jersey City). New towers have gone up, others are still in progress, and there's still plenty of lots having the old buildings demolished and cleared for new construction.

There are just so many sites active at the same time, and since high-rise construction demands a bit more skill than putting up ranch houses or McMansions out in the suburbs, a labor shortage is almost inevitable.

[RadiationTherapy]

12. I think it has to do with pushing so many children towards college.

There is so little respect for trades in this country that parents, teachers and counselors would rather lie about a student's skill set (intellectual vs. hands on/craftmanship) than direct them towards trade/vocational school.

I work at a university and put my anecdotal statistic at around 20% to 30% of the students are not "college material". Purely observational after 5.5 years.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. One of my kids was directed toward the trades ......

He's quite smart, but has difficulty learning by reading. He does far better 'hands on'. They steered him to the trades in HS. He's happy at that.

[RadiationTherapy]

18. Then he is in a good school with good parents.

But, listen, many parents these days refuse to see the fallibility of their children; especially academically. Our university is giving seminars regarding 'helicopter parents' and how we need to interact with them. These are parents that contact counselors, faculty and even the library on their children's behalf. IT is truy sick and overprotective.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Actually, he's 30 and has been in the work world for for more than a few years.

He tried college a few times on his own. He's just not good in the classroom. He gets okay grades, but it is seriously hard work for him. He makes good money so he's really not that motivated, either.

[Blue_Tires]

13. true, less young people are getting into it...

maybe because of the misperception that surrounds a lot of blue-collar jobs:

"i'll never make any real money doing it"

"it's only for the people not good enough to do anything else"

"i'm trying to rise to a certain social/economic 'status' in life, and white collar is the only way to go"

and so on...there are of course deeper issues of prestige, materialism, etc etc.

[soothsayer]

15. Inspectors get paid off to ignore unsafe stuff. And they do. Simple as wanting to make a buck.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. That may play into the crane accidents

The guy I heard was actually talking about a larger issue.

[lonestarnot]

17. absolutely does. You report defects and you fiad and fighting for

your job and backpay. Whistleblower protection sucks these days too.