PSA for Cali DU'ers, yes there is an election today

[nadinbrzezinski]

don't forget to vote!

Yes, we will be out the door very soon to do just that

[featherman]

1. We voted by mail two weeks ago - "permanent absentee" - highly recommended

[Wilms]

2. Absentee voting is really hard to secure.

If you have to, go ahead. But please don't encourage it unnecessarily.

Thanks.

[featherman]

3. Not sure what you mean - "hard to secure"?

I mark a ballot and drop it in the mail who takes it to the county clerk for counting.

Voting at the polling place, the voter marks a ballot and drops it in a box which is then taken to the county clerk for counting

Why is one more secure than another?

I voted by mail in Oregon for years. I have no problem with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

For starters absentee is not always counted

and yes, the chain of custody allows for games to be played that are worst than the other way

[featherman]

6. Well, I'll let you know since I will be at the County Clerk's office as an official

of the county Democratic Party watching the count of all the ballots tonight.

You are entitled to your opinion but I respectfully disagree.
Oregon's all mail-in ballot system routinely tallies in the 70% + range of voter participation compared with a national average closer to 50%.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. If well run, and Oregon is well run

I advocate for that system. In California we will move to that in the next ten years I can bet...

[Wilms]

10. Your citation of increased participation has nothing to do with security.

Please consider use logic when posting...and when choosing voting methods.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. For starters absentee is not always counted

and yes, the chain of custody allows for games to be played that are worst than the other way

[MindPilot]

5. I harbor no illusions that my vote is counted.

Once I drop it in the box--mail or ballot--it's out of my hands. But when I vote absentee, I at least know that I physically marked a piece of paper and my vote exists as more than a few ones and zeros.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. So do I, since California uses paper ballots now

thankfully the diebold machines are gone... but not the counting machines back at the registrar

[Wilms]

9. I understand Oregon's got a bit of a different culture.

With all due respect, what could you mean by "I have no problem with it."

You know for a fact that the ballot was delivered? That during the days and weeks prior to an election there was no tampering of any kind? That some may have their ballot stolen prior to filling it out? Some may wind up with their vote coerced?

Did you know that in the 2006 election, Riverside CA election workers took the absentee ballots and entered the choices into Touch-Screen DREs? The good news there is that some posters here on DU promoting absentee ballots as a way to "bust the machines" may have figured out that they were part of the problem, not the solution.

I'm going to walk to my polling place.

[featherman]

13. We're not going to thrash this out here... corruption is corruption

A ballot box with hundreds of ballots in it that goes "missing" is as likely as a corrupt county clerk tampering with mail-in ballots as they are received. This occurred rather notoriously in several New Mexico precincts in 2004.

Safeguards are in place for all these methods but tampering can occur in all voting methods.

One method is not more secure than another if the vote counting apparatus is corrupt.

As a party official I support mail-in paper ballots as secure as any other and far more secure than Diebold type voting.

The added benefit is to the working people, elderly, infirm, traveling people, students, and many others having a longer window to vote and participate than one working weekday from 8:00 to 8:00. As I have said, the all-mail elections as conducted by Oregon have increased voter participation significantly.

[Wilms]

14. What does the term "Diebold type voting" mean.

Touch Screen? Optical Scan? At the precinct? Centrally counted?

Perhaps your correct understanding of the differences would aid the conversation. Perhaps even shorten it.

Meanwhile, I said before, if one really must use absentee, that's fine.

I also mentioned security and participation are two different issues. That increased participation works for you, is your thing. I'm kind of hung-up on security and and verified results.

I'm funny like that.

[featherman]

19. Touch screen -no paper trail is what I meant...sorry for the confusion

But again how is at-the-polling-place voting more secure than mail-in? That's the part that confuses me in this discussion. Why would a county clerk's office be corrupt only with mail-in ballots and not "brought in boxes" ballots?

It's the same physical ballot.

One is delivered by the US Mail and kept secure in a ballot box by the County Clerk until counting day when the box is opened under supervision and counted according to appropriate safeguards and observation.

The other is brought to the County Clerk in a ballot box by volunteer poll workers where it is then opened under supervision and counted according to appropriate safeguards and observation.

That's how it works in this county. As I said, I am a vote count watcher for the county Dems and will be at the clerk's office watching this process tonight.

Maybe it's different elsewhere.

[Wilms]

20. Well I apologize. With paper-less touchscreen the path toward better security is less clear.

Problems with mail-in, however, include simply non- or late delivery.

While you'll be at the clerk's office tonight, no one may have been watching over the last few weeks as ballots came in. There's opportunity for fraud in the amount of time a mail-in ballot sits at the office waiting to be counted.

I mentioned the Riverside County issue above.

But, no. It's less clear what to do with paper-less touchscreens apart from outlawing them, as TN has done recently.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x503824

[featherman]

21. The way it works here in this CA county is that the ballots arrive by mail and

are directly deposited into the County Clerk's "ballot box" (for want of a better term) immediately. This has been made quite clear to us. They are as under lock and key and secure as a polling place ballot. I surprised that anyone would think they might just randomly pile up in some office corner desk unattended. Very strange concept and certainly not what happens to mail-in ballots. There is a clearly stated, legally proscribed way in which ballots are handled and if they are not handled in that way the County Clerk and whatever staff that was involved in the mishandling would be facing a jail term. That's the law.

As far as non-delivery is concerned there haven't been major problems with that to my knowledge. Certainly the increased voter participation that has been documented means that far, far more voters simply can't or won't make it to the polling place than have their ballots lost by the USPS.

If there is a concern about late delivery of a mail-in ballot or not having enough time to be sure of getting it there on time there is the option of drop-boxes. In this county there is one at the County Clerk's office and the voter directly drops it into the designated box. This can be done any time in the three or so weeks before election day if one is concerned about time or the efficiency of the mail or is leaving the county. My mother-in-law did this yesterday.

I do know there is controversy over mail-in balloting but most of it has been coming from the right wing (see John Fortier of the American Enterprise Institute whose book, Absentee and Early Voting: Trends, Promises, and Perils, raises some arguments about making voting "too easy") since increased participation is a bad thing for them. Also a right wing cause has been intimidation of voters at polling places, especially of minorities where the county power structure is in the hands of racist whites, ie, the South historically but many Hispanic and Native American areas out west as well.

[Wilms]

22. The law is one thing. Reality is something else. Some of us recall OH 2004.

I doubt anyone assumes, nor did anyone suggest ballots "might just randomly pile up in some office corner desk".

The bit where they might be unattended or at risk of insider attack is another story. Would you want ballots under Ken Blackwell's control any longer than the minimum?

Use of a drop box on election day seems a better approach to absentee ballot security but still run risks previously outlined on this thread. I wonder how many people handle it that way.

Not sure what AEI is up to, but absentee voters in the past have been republican leaning. And the idea of making it "too easy" is an idea, but off-topic. The concern here is security.

And illegal challenges at the polling place is not a lot of fun. I'm not sure absentee balloting is the best response, however.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I'm not sure why you said paperless touchscreens if you are in California. There hasn't been paperless voting in the state for quite some time.

[KitchenWitch]

11. I voted at 7:30 this morning

Why do we have BOTH a February primary and a June primary?

[Wilms]

12. California wanted more influence in the presidential primary.

We also wanted to blunt Hillary's strategy of raising the specter of assassination.

[MindPilot]

17. Now there's some unintended consequences!!

Got that shit handled back in February! :D

[kestrel91316]

15. Vote NOOOOOO on 98!!!!!!

[LeftCoast]

16. Voted. Though the number of elections this year is ridiculous.

I think I've already voted in 4 elections this year. Certainly three. They need to cut it down to twice a year at most.

[Iggo]

18. OH MY GOD!!! TAHT'S TODAY?!?!?!?!?!

I keed. I keed.

B-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I voted, I voted, I voted I voted

ok, I can calm down now

The place was a ghost town

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. I voted at about 2 p.m.

The precinct captain told me they'd had 25 voters in a precinct of 1,100.

:banghead:

[AlCzervik]

26. i was voter #51 at 1:45 pm, the poll workers told me it was dead all day, even in the morrning

when there's usually a rush.

[Beaverhausen]

25. I voted

no on 98, yes on 99, etc.