Ah the plight of the rich!!!!!!!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

In case you guys missed it, TDS has a great story on the horrors befalling our very well to do. Things like not being able to afford to buy a bentley once a year... I know, the horror, and we should be reaching for the full section of violins

That said... me and my meta posts,,,

First off the parallels between today and ahem 1929 are quite astounding

"The U.S. economy was also reliant upon luxury spending and investment from the rich to stay afloat during the 1920's. The significant problem with this reliance was that luxury spending and investment were based on the wealthy's confidence in the U.S. economy. If conditions were to take a downturn (as they did with the market crashed in fall and winter 1929), this spending and investment would slow to a halt. While savings and investment are important for an economy to stay balanced, at excessive levels they are not good. Greater investment usually means greater productivity. However, since the rewards of the increased productivity were not being distributed equally, the problems of income distribution (and of overproduction) were only made worse. Lastly, the search for ever greater returns on investment lead to wide-spread market speculation."


http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/senate/6854/greatdep.html

Now go ahead and re-read this again. We are to the point where those who live outside the economy feel the pinch and are now cutting back on their spending. We saw a similar pattern, but to a much lesser degree, during other recessions, and we may laught about these folks not being able to afford their yearly Bentley... but these are not good signs

From the same article I'd like you to also note the following


"Maldistribution of wealth within our nation was not limited to only socioeconomic classes, but to entire industries. In 1929 a mere 200 corporations controlled approximately half of all corporate wealth. While the automotive industry was thriving in the 1920's, some industries, agriculture in particular, were declining steadily. In 1921, the same year that Ford Motor Company reported record assets of more than $345 million, farm prices plummeted, and the price of food fell nearly 72% due to a huge surplus. While the average per capita income in 1929 was $750 a year for all Americans, the average annual income for someone working in agriculture was only $273. The prosperity of the 1920's was simply not shared among industries evenly. In fact, most of the industries that were prospering in the 1920's were in some way linked to the automotive industry or to the radio industry."

------

Any similarities to the present are purely coincidental... and one of the industries that are highly concentrated are media conglomerates, who are doing all they can NOT to go into the nitty gritty. After all, why should we question President Hoover and Trickle Down Economics? I mean it ended very well back then, didn't it?

Now primarily our economy is based on consumption, and no consumption means contraction. This may not be sustainable as Peak Oil gets here, but one of the causes of the Great Depression was a slump in consumption, and it is important to understand why.


"People seemed to be forgetting that capitalism needs to expand, that demand for housing, clothes, automobiles, stoves, and many other consumer goods generates demand in other sectors of the economy. But mass production necessitates mass consumption. Mass consumption necessitates an income distribution that allows consumers to buy. Without the appropriate income distribution, warehouses will burst at their seams and production lines will clog. Ethnic discrimination usually meant lower pay for the affected groups. The coal industry was in economic trouble as US consumers and businesses switched more and more to petroleum or hydroelectric sources of power. The introduction of synthetic fibers, such as nylon, dealt body blows to the cotton and wool textile industries. The wealthy bought luxuries but could not buy enough to sustain the consumer economy."

http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=603

So from a meta perspective, as much as I would like to bring the violin section, to be joined by viola section, as these people cannot afford their botox... realize we may truly be up a creek... for similar reasons to 1929

And that is what the next president will inherit

And at a metal level this scares me shitless... for I do not know if in our new age of you are on your own, we will survive this...

[rumpel]

1. I'll provide the cello

thanks for the info.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. You welcome, now if I could learn how to nest quotes

:-)

[spag68]

3. market crash

somehow I don't think the market will crash that badly. That said our economy needs more then consumer spending, it needs jobs that are involved in making something. Even if it's movies or songs hopefully renewable widgets. when energy is as close to free as possible we will not need earn so much to keep up. We have to hope for the best heres the alternative is unthinkable. Goodby easy living on the canal in St. Petersburg. Try to get it to hold off for 5 or 8 years, I will be done by then anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. The parallels for a crash are way too close for comfort

and now even central banks are using the D word from time to time

[some guy]

5. In 1929

the US population was about 122 million. We had a national debt of about $17 billion. We were a net oil exporter.

Now the US population is over 300 million, the national debt is over $9 trillion. We are a net oil importer.

Twice as many people, 500 times as much debt, fewer resources. We should be fine. :sarcasm:



We're pretty much fucked, as far as I can tell.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. well there are some differences, such as the percentage of our

debt versus GNP is higher


Now history never actually repeats exactly

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

6. I think the social and political climate would look better this time

This time around I think people would realize that something is fucked up and would start revolting much more easily than in the 1930s. While history can repeat itself, the repetition is not usually perfectly identical.

I would expect that a second Great Depression would be accompanied by an abrupt rise in public militancy. The "everyone for themselves" attitude would be smashed overnight as everyone realized that they were left behind by a system that had failed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. There was quite a bit of militancy in that period

of US History. the Communist part had its best polling in 1932

[silverojo]

11. You're being naive

People are a lot more apathetic now than they were before. They'll just bitch a lot about why they're not eligible for welfare. Republicans, in particular, are the first to line up to get benefits from the programs they denounce so loudly.

[samplegirl]

7. Bill Moyer did an excellent segment

last friday on the working class poor & uber rich you can still go to his site to view. Thanks for your post.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. thanks something to watch tomorrow

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. kick