House Approves Unconstitutional Surveillance Legislation

[Breeze54]

House Approves Unconstitutional Surveillance Legislation

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/35740prs20080620.html

(6/20/2008)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [phone] or [e-mail]

Washington, DC –

Following a vote in the House of Representatives sanctioning warrantless wiretapping and handing immunity to telecommunications companies for their role in domestic spying, the American Civil Liberties Union expressed outrage at representatives who voted for the unconstitutional legislation. The bill, H.R. 6304, or The FISA Amendments Act of 2008, passed the chamber by a vote of 293-129, and is expected to be voted on in the Senate next week.

The following may be attributed to Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU’s Washington Legislative Office:

"It’s Christmas morning at the White House thanks to this vote. The House just wrapped up some expensive gifts
for the administration and their buddies at the phone companies. Watching the House fall to scare tactics and political maneuvering is especially infuriating given the way it stood up to pressure from the president on this same issue just months ago. In March we thought the House leadership had finally grown a backbone by rejecting the Senate’s FISA bill. Now we know they will not stand up for the Constitution.

"No matter how often the opposition calls this bill a ‘compromise,’ it is not a meaningful compromise, except of our constitutional rights. The bill allows for mass, untargeted and unwarranted surveillance of all communications coming in to and out of the United States. The courts’ role is superficial at best, as the government can continue spying on our communications even after the FISA court has objected. Democratic leaders turned what should have been an easy FISA fix into the wholesale giveaway of our Fourth Amendment rights.

"More than two years after the president’s domestic spying was revealed in the pages of the New York Times, Congress’ fury and shock has dissipated to an obedient whimper. After scrambling for years to cover their tracks, the phone companies and the administration are almost there. This immunity provision will effectively destroy Americans’ chance to have their deserved day in court and will kill any possibility of learning the extent of the administration’s lawless actions.

The House should be ashamed of itself.

The fate of the Fourth Amendment is now in the Senate’s hands.

We can only hope senators will show more courage than their colleagues in the House."

For more information, go to:
www.aclu.org/fisa

To read the ACLU’s letter on H.R. 6304, go to:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/35735leg20080619.html

:grr: :nuke:

[Spiffarino]

1. I am so angry right now I can barely contain it

My Rep., Heath Shuler, is one of the Blue Dog creeps who pushed this legislative travesty. He will not get one penny more from me, nor will he get my vote.

Ironically, the Repub douchebag who's running against him is opposed to HR-6304. Too bad he's a Republican, otherwise he'd have my vote.

[Breeze54]

2. Good for you!! Is Shuler being challenged by a Dem?

I guess I should ask was he challenged.

I see that two of my reps voted against this! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

But I think a couple voted for it. :grr:

I have to recheck the list of yays and nays.

[jgraz]

6. Their primary opponents should change party to "Real Democrat" and run again in the general

Hell, if a conservative war-mongering Repug fellator like Lieberman can do it, why can't the progressives?

[libnnc]

9. Heath Shuler is pretty much fence post stupid

He *said* he would only be a one term congresscritter...

I assume he's changed his mind now and wants to be reelected?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Democrats cave = Water is wet

[Breeze54]

4. Well said.... how many of the Dems that voted Yay are BlueDogs?

Does anyone have a count? All of them?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Well, my supposedly "progressive", rep (D) voted for it.

Unfortunately, for him, my vote is based on his vote(s).

[Breeze54]

10. You're right... doesn't seem to matter.... I think 2 of my reps voted for it too... but 2 didn't!! n

[Leopolds Ghost]

26. Your vote only matters if you can organize your neighbors... do they care about this issue?

The way they cared about the war? (if they cared)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. I doubt that they even know about it.

Most of them being yuppies more concerned about getting the latest gizmos, gadgets, facelifts, and similar items of importance, while juggling their credit cards.

About the only thing they'd ever get organized into is a shopping club.

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. Ask yourself about some of the DU posters who post disparaging remarks designed to keep it that way.

You know, the "nobody I know understands this issue, so stop harping on about it" crowd.

They were really out in force during the passage of the bill in Feb.

It was all SO ovious and disingenuous.

[Breeze54]

36. I remember that.... who were they working for, anyways?

Assholes!! RE- :puke: 'S

Thanks for the reminder. :grr:

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. History will remember this as the most unAmerican era this country has ever seen.

Every decision that has been made since 2000, including the selection of the presidency, up to this vote that protects usurpers of our rights, is everything that our forefathers fought against. Every Democrat who voted in favor of that bill should hang his head in shame, and turn in their flag pins, because they don't even qualify as patriot wannabes. They should skip the Fourth of July since they no longer know the meaning of that holiday.

[Breeze54]

7. I'm not an historian but I think it even surpasses the McCarthy era!

I could be wrong but it sure seems like it and the McCarthy era was pretty bad!!

[nvme]

12. The fucking corporatist pigs

I cannot believe these spineless MFers! God this is not America this is the USSR. When ATT can do this. Well its time to hit back. Hit them fuckers hard. hit them where it counts in the goddamned wallets. The only one company that stands out in my mind is Qwest communications. So if you can get them do it. boycott sprint ATT Cingular and any other of these bastards. If anyone has any info on which are "clean" communications providers then please personally send me info. I would spend one more dime of my money on these bastards if it is possible. No

[Breeze54]

14. QWEST has resisted, that's true!!!

But I don't know if I can get them here in MA. MA is all tied up with Verizon. :grr:

[PassingFair]

45. A sizable chunk of their corporate staff is in JAIL, including the CEO.

The government went after them for "insider trading".

They prosecuted about 7 or 8 of them.

No joke.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. This is far worse than the McCarthy era.

The McCarthy era singled out a few people, mostly in the entertainment business, but in the last ten years, people have been persecuted or ostracized for their political views, by every organization under the executive branch.

[Breeze54]

25. Thanks... I knew it was a lot of Hollywood but not like it is now!

:grr:

Thanks for the refresher. ;)

[ColonelTom]

11. TAKE THEM DOWN. Every last cowardly, traitorous one of them.

Frankly, it's more important than control of Congress - because if these are the "Democrats" we need to elect to maintain a majority, we don't have a majority. We have a rubber stamp.

[Breeze54]

13. But we need to take down the Rethugs too! We'll have no one in the House after Nov....

if we take them all down. Besides, the Congressional primaries are over!

I'd rather see the Rethugs and the Blue Dogs be removed first! :grr:

And we need to gain a majority in the Senate too!

[ColonelTom]

15. Do not donate a dime to these traitors.

I'm not saying to contribute to Republicans to defeat them, but we cannot enable these anti-Constitution "Democrats" anymore. They depend on our acquiescence and our silence, and our saying "well, the Republicans are worse, so we have to hold our nose and get these Democrats re-elected."

The second the Congressional primaries end, many of these "Democrats" feel that they can simply ignore their constituents and cozy back up to the lobbyists, figuring we'll all forget about it by the time the next election comes around. Besides, there will be Republicans to defeat then, too, so we'll probably all stifle our disgust then too and send them back for yet another term.

This is why I've stopped donating to the DCCC and DSCC. I'll donate to individual candidates, ActBlue, MoveOn, etc., but no way am I giving a blanket donation to re-electing Democrats because of the D next to their name on the ballot. If if looks like a traitor, walks like a traitor, and acts like a traitor, I'm not funding it.

I'm so disgusted I can hardly see straight. Senator Obama, DO NOT fail us now - you need to stand up and lead. Godspeed.

[Breeze54]

17. I agree with you... it's going to take more than one election cycle to clean house...

I donated to Kucinich only, so far. I'll help my individual Reps, if I can (they voted Nay) but
I don't contribute to the DCCC or the DSCC either. One good thing is Congress comes up for re-
election every two years, so we need to put up more progressive candidates, year after year,
until we make that switch over to a progressive house! ;)

[ColonelTom]

41. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

So, Sen. Obama, where's that "change we can believe in"? :grr: :banghead:

[progressoid]

16. Yea! I feel so safe now.

[Breeze54]

19. We all need to learn some sort of new code speak....

:eyes:

[bdamomma]

21. definitely and we should exchange what cell phone numbers.

hey breeze54, it just never stops until we stop them.:hi:

[Leopolds Ghost]

29. Won't help. The existing illegal dragnet is based on "terror cell methodology"

If you have a history of calling certain numbers in a certain pattern,
and two of those numbers change, the roving wiretaps are reassigned
to the new pair identified in the pattern. To avoid being wiretapped
if you and your best friend were under surveillance as anti-war
dissidents, you would have to avoid calling your mother, other friends
etc. to avoid the pattern recognition software. (ALL calls in the US
are stored and taped every day for about a week, I think, if I remember
the Atlantic article correct. So all they need to do is shuffle thru
numbers like your Internet software sorts e-mail headers, and pick out
the ones you actually want to look at/listen to and dump the other
50 million calls in the "uninteresting/bulk mail" folder on the NSA server.)

[Breeze54]

30. But not throw aways....

That's what they said on a news piece about tracking the "terra wrists'...

[Leopolds Ghost]

33. Roving wiretaps are based on pattern of calls. Two throw aways bought at the same time

Sets off an alarm bell which calls for "probable cause"
for closer monitoring under FISA.

just as the Patriot Act calls for the bank to report you to the
gov't if you make "suspicious transactions" in large amounts that
you "don't normally have" (it's OK if rich people move large
amounts of money from one account to another, but if politicians
or citizens do so, it's "suspicious" and "possiblre terrorist or
drug collaboration" and they can physically or electronically
bug you like they did Spitzer.)

As mentioned, any call you make on even a brand new prepaid
will be downloaded and archived, on the NSA dragnet, which
is a giant search engine just like the Google web cache.

But it won't be flagged for monitoring UNLESS "suspicious
activity" occurs (two brand-new prepaids calling each other
is flagged) and then it gets worse:

Probable cause for tracking a flagged pair of phones under
the roving wiretap system is determined by looking up all
the OTHER numbers you called and determining if the pattern
matches, well, YOU (your mom's home phone, your existing
friends whose numbers haven't changed, etc.) then they look
you up to see if you are on their NSA "watch list."

To get on the NSA "watch list" requires you to frequent
boards like this one and post extensively (in English,
natch -- NSA has pathetically few foreign language experts)
disparaging words about the government and other "flagged
words" like plot, NSA, President, etc.

Needless to say, some IT geeks have taken to spamming their
sig files with "flagged words" to send a message to Agent Mike.

[Breeze54]

37. But the news story said they couldn't trace the throw away calls!

How can they? They may log that a call was made from that number,
but they can't trace it. You don't have to register a throw away.

[Leopolds Ghost]

32. The irony is that (a) the CIA is not allowed to do any of this stuff and wanted to keep the firewall

To guard against domestic espionage which is illegal.

The FBI, which is in charge of domestic espionage
(and FOUNDED to prosecute political dissidents in the WWI era)
wanted access to warrantless NSA info originally intended for
foreign intelligence surveillance use (hence the misnomer "FISA").

The other irony is that, according to net-geek folks here
in the DC area (there are tens of thousands of them) it's the
worst kept secret in the world that NSA is nothing more than a
vast search engine which yields very poor results. They are
going to people like Google for help in refining their searches
because they can't even find the bad guys. Just false positives,
like the posts we are sending right now. Discussing words like
terror, NSA, bomb, plot, etc. They mostly rely on an "assume
the terrorists are stupid" plan, which sometimes works (!)
(most people who want to kill themselves and others tend to
make mistakes and get caught.) The notion that any revelation
of the NSA wiretap strategy in court is some sort of big secret
that will destroy our supposed close tabs on the terrorists
(is that why we haven't caught the terrorists?) is preposterous.
We lost track of Bin Laden because Clinton and Bush outed their
own CIA intelligence asset deep within Al Qaeda in order to
launch a pathetically botched airstrike timerd to Clinton's
electoral chances. Our US intelligence asset, Bin Laden's
treasurer, had to flee Afghanistan -- he was reporting on their
every word & movement up until we made that mistake. Has the
NSA gleaned similar info on where in the world is Osama Bin
Forgotten? You can be sure they are reading this now.
NSA's failings are the worst kept secret in Washington.
That's why this bill is so big with Washington insiders!

[libnnc]

18. OUR LEGACY: War Crimes Domestic Spying Torture

**W A R C R I M E S**
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/41514.html



**I L L E G A L W I R E T A P S**
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/marisa_taylor/story/16173.html




**T O R T U R E**

http://videos.mcclatchydc.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=1927337


This has become our legacy. DLCers on this board...ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?

[spanone]

20. ....without representation.

[Prospero1]

22. 2 thoughts on this

I'm not a lawyer but as I understand it:
1. Congress cannot override the constitution by statute. This law arguably attempts to nullify the 4th amendment. If one cannot remedy the violation of one's 4th amendment rights then the 4th has no meaning. It seems to me that it could be overturned on these grounds.
on the other hand...
2. If the law is in force, then the complicit individuals in the telcos can be compelled to testify as to exactly what went on without being able to invoke the 5th (a bit of irony there).

[Breeze54]

23. Well, Congress just did it anyway - tossed the 4th Amendment out the window!!

:grr:

Welcome to DU, Prospero1 !! :hi:

[Leopolds Ghost]

27. But the law specifically calls for specific cases against telcos to be dismissed.

Not sure if THAT is an constitutional overturning of civil/common law and
jurisprudence.

[Canuckistanian]

31. Then amnesty for those cases should be ruled unconstitutional

The question is - how is this EVER going to get to the USSC?

Since wiretaps are secret, and the since AG is going to have to approve these wiretaps, then how can anyone get justice?

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. Obama's AG would have to issue a ruling overturning Bush AG determination

Unfortunately, a case once thrown out of civil court probably cannot be resumed. That is why corporations get away with everything.

[MasonJar]

38. Since Johathan Turley, an expert on the Constitution, says that this

bill is unConstitutional, the lawyers should take this to court.

[Breeze54]

39. I'm sure the ACLU is not giving up on this one!

;)

[MasonJar]

40. BINGO! The light just came on! NOW we know why the House refused

to okay this bill in Feb/Mar. Many were still in primary races; now they know we are not going to vote for their opponents, the GOPers. I certainly am not (although I'd bet that John Yarmuth did not vote yes.) In any case I would never vote in such a way that any Pug would get elected instead of a Democrat. They have shown their true colors for way too many generations now. No more GOPers ever!!!

[Junkdrawer]

44. Bingo indeed. n/t

[Breeze54]

42. Kicking for those that missed this important article.

:kick:

[Breeze54]

43. A GRRR kick for the Saturday morning sleepy heads... WAKE UP!!!!!

:hi:

:donut: