Gore Vidal: 'The US is not a republic anymore'

[leftchick]

Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:42:15
An interview with Gore Vidal by Afshin Rattansi, Press TV, Tehran

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=61813§ionid=3510302


Press TV:We hear that Michael Mukasey is going to become the latest of the President's Attorney-Generals to be subpoenaed, this time over his conversations with Bush and Cheney - does this show that Congress is serious about calling the executive to account?

Gore Vidal: No, Congress has never been more cowardly, nor more corrupt. All Bush has do is to make sure certain amounts of money go in the direction of certain important congressmen and that's end of any serious investigation. After all, one of the bravest members of Congress is Denis Kucinich who brought the article of impeachment in to the well of the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives must then try the president, and then after that it goes to the Senate for judgment. However, none of these things will happen because there's nobody there except for Mr. Kucinich who has the courage to take on a sitting president who is kind of a Mafioso.

Press TV: How can it just be one person among so many hundreds of Congressmen who wants the impeachment of George W. Bush in these circumstances?

Gore Vidal: Well it's because we no longer have a country. We don't have a republic any more. During the last 7 or 8 years of the Bush regime, they've got rid of the Bill of Rights, they've got rid of habeas corpus. They have got rid of one of the nicest gifts that England ever left us when they went away and we ceased to be colonies - the Magna Carta - from the 12th century. All of our law and due process of law is based on that. And the Bush people got rid of it. The president and little Mr. Gonzales who for a few minutes was his Attorney General. They managed to get rid of all of the constitutional links that made us literally a republic.

Press TV: You have often written about the US's superpower status in terms of the history of previous superpowers. Do you think we're witnessing the end of US power as some suggest. Will the White House be seen like Persepolis?

Gore Vidal: Well it won't make such good ruins, no. It'll be more like the tomb of Cyrus nearby. They managed to destroy the United States - why? Because they're oil and gas people and they're essentially criminals. I repeat that this is a criminal group that's seized control of the country through what looked like an ordinary election. But there's some very nice films and documentaries about what happened in the year 2000 when Albert Gore won the election for president and they saw to it that he couldn't serve. They got the Supreme Court - which is the Holy of Holies ordinarily in our system - to investigate and then accuse the thieves of being absolutely correct and the winners - Mr. Gore and the Democrats - of being the cheaters. It's the first law of Machiavelli, whatever your opponent's faults are, you pick his virtues and you deny he has them. That's what they did when Senator Kerry ran a few years ago for president. He's a famous hero from the Vietnam War. They said he was a coward and not a hero. That's how it's done. When you have a bunch of liars in charge of your government you can't expect to get much history out of that. But later on we'll dig and dig… and we will dig up Persepolis.

[scarletwoman]

1. Ah, it's always great to hear from Gore Vidal. Thanks for posting this.

And long life to Mr. Vidal.

sw

[skooooo]

2. Hope the media picks this up and discusses it. nt

[scarletwoman]

7. *Our* corporate media? Nope, won't happen. (nt)

[skooooo]

11. I dunno..

...seems to me like msm gets a lot of its stuff from the blogs anymore.

[Dr.Phool]

13. ?

Yeah, they'll pick it up all right.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[EFerrari]

43. I got to talk to him briefly when I was making money calls for Andy.

He was gentle and courtly and laughed when I said I couldn't believe that a conversation I'd so wanted to have with him turned out to be about a money pitch.

lol

:)

[Octafish]

3. … and we will dig up Persepolis.

[trusty elf]

20. Beautiful picture

Isn't that Cap Sunion?

[Octafish]

23. Yes it is, tomeboy.

The ruins and the moon seem to sum things up so well...


From Astronomy Picture Of the Day:

Solstice Moonrise, Cape Sounion

Credit & Copyright: Anthony Ayiomamitis (TWAN)

Explanation: Today's solstice marks the northernmost point of the Sun's annual motion through planet Earth's sky and the astronomical beginning of the northern hemisphere's summer. But only two days ago, the Full Moon nearest the solstice rose close to the ecliptic plane opposite the Sun, near its southernmost point for the year. Astronomer Anthony Ayiomamitis recorded this dramatic picture of the solstice Full Moon rising above Cape Sounion, Greece. The twenty-four hundred year old Temple of Poseidon lies in the foreground, also visible to sailors on the Aegean Sea. In this well-planned single exposure, a telescopic lens makes the Moon loom large, but even without optical aid casual skygazers often find the Full Moon looking astonishingly large when seen near the horizon. That powerful visual effect is known as the Moon Illusion.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080620.html

[trusty elf]

25. Breathtaking!

Thanks, Octafish!

:hi:

[XRubicon]

4. Watched "The Best Man" Tonight on TCM

I never heard of or saw this movie until tonight. What a great movie.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057883/

[unkachuck]

5. I like Mr. Vidal....

....he's so, correct....

[ben_meyers]

6. England went away and we ceased to be colonies?

I heard that there was a Revolutionary War involved. Vidal, you're an idiot.

[scarletwoman]

8. Who's the idiot? Yes, there was a Revolutionary War. We won, and England went away and we ceased to

be colonies. Duh.

[leftchick]

10. Duh indeed!

hi sw! :hug:

I need many hugs these days.

[scarletwoman]

12. Hi leftchick!

Many hugs for you, then:

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

:loveya:
sw

[asteroid2003QQ47]

19. You shared this riveting bit of informaton with Anais Nin?

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
--Anais Nin

[Stuckinthebush]

29. Vidal an idiot?

Get up on the stupid side of bed today?

Lord.

:eyes:

[ooglymoogly]

48. If you think Gore an idiot; You can not have much of a brain.

or at least one that is in use.

[fascisthunter]

31. You are Not Comprehending What He Said

[wurzel]

33. There was no "Revolutionary War". We just had regime change.

One set of rich aristocrats beat out onother set of aristocrats using the poor as fodder.

[mrbluto]

35. Irony Deficiency.

I think you're suffering from an irony deficiency.

One sign is chirping in to call a guy like Vidal an idiot. If you'd done a smidge of homework you'd have figured out he was saying that tounge in cheek.

Here's a test example of irony for you:

Do you think people on DU who call Bush "Dear Leader"...

• ...really think he's dear to them, and a leader? (A)
• ...or do you think they're referencing how Dictator Kim Jong Il is often addressed in N. Korea? (B}

Answer: B

If you answered "A" then you might want to consult....jeeze, I don't know who you'd consult.

Maybe you should just lurk until you get a clue.

[WheelWalker]

40. A subtle turn of the phrase is not your long suit, I can see that.

[mrbluto]

54. Long suit.

Startling to recognize a reference to bridge. Heh.

[WheelWalker]

55. riposte. Namaste'.

[mrbluto]

56. You're hardly the Village Idiot...

...if you can toss around a phrase like that. Your handle probably has some of that irony stuff I keep hearing about to it. B)

"riposte. Namaste'" - I couldn't even get a decent Google search for exactly what that means.

"back at you, spark of recognition"?

Suppose I should throw it into Babble fish, but I think I'll let it lie.

I do like game analogies. "behind the eightball", "finesse the situation", etc.

I once read an article in International security review that discussed what was going to happen in post-soviet russia and found this little gem referring to what would happen if new political parties or large business concerns didn't rise to fill the power vacuum:

In national politics if nothing else is bid, then clubs are trumps.

i.e. The military and police would wind up running everything.

Was sitting in the KSG cafeteria and burst into laughter. got a lot of strange looks.

[DaveJ]

53. Thanks Ben, that statement also had me thinking...

WTF does England have to do with our current situation. People like Gore Vidal are great thinkers (unlike us?), but why are they given pass after pass after every dumb statement they make, whereas people like us are left to the Vultures? Yeah, "England went away" is a dumb phrase, but I guess Gore Vidal can say it... apparently. A peon like you or me can't get away with anything CLOSE to that though.

[madrchsod]

9. gore is always spot on about america

yes dennis is the only one that has spoken out.

i`m pessimistic that we will see our republic restored anytime soon. there are to many elected traitors to our country and our Constitution

[malaise]

14. Nice interview

What I find amusing is that Dems keep telling me not to say bad things about McSame after what they did to Kerry...and he remained silent. Bravo Gore Vidal..truth will out.

[lonestarnot]

15. K & R

[Solly Mack]

16. It's like reading clean air

K&R

[trof]

17. "Inventing a Nation: Washington, Adams, Jefferson"

- Gore Vidal

Just listened to this audio book on a road trip.
Fascinating.
Founding fathers with all warts, pimples, tics, and idiosyncrasies intact and fully visible.

[AntiFascist]

34. Sounds like an interesting read...

I've been watching the John Adams mini-series. It seems like Thomas Jefferson was the only one who remained the true revolutionary.

[JohnyCanuck]

18. Not a republic, but more of a plutocracy.

The New American Plutocracy
by Paul Kurtz

Plutocracy: (1) government by the wealthy, (2) a controlling class of the wealthy. From the Greek ploutokratia, from ploutos, wealth, and kratia, advocate of a form of government.

I am deeply troubled by the fact that in the upcoming presidential and congressional elections there is little or no debate on what I consider to be a central issue for the American future: the emergence of a new and powerful plutocracy wedded to corporate power. Regrettably, none of the major candidates will deign to even discuss this vital question. Only Ralph Nader has identified it. But he has largely been ignored or parodied by the mass media. Typically, Paul Krugman, op-ed columnist for the New York Times, has ridiculed Nader precisely for his attacks on "corporate power." Senator John McCain did raise the issue of the special interests and soft money corrupting the political process. But he has been rebuffed and has climbed into the same bed with Bush. Many do not consider Nader to be a viable candidate, for the Green Party does not represent an effective political coalition. Neither Free Inquiry nor the Council for Secular Humanism can endorse political candidates, but this should not preclude me from presenting my own personal views about the deeper humanist issues at stake.

A plutocracy is defined as "government by the wealthy." The critical question that should concern us is whether the United States is already a plutocracy, and what can be done to limit its power. This question, unfortunately, will not be taken seriously by most voters-but it damned well ought to be.

Ancient Greek democracy lasted only a century; the Roman republic survived for four, though it was increasingly weakened as time went on. As America enters its third century we may well ask whether our democratic institutions will survive and if so in what form.

As readers of these pages know, I have been concerned by the virtually unchallenged growth of corporate power. Mergers and acquisitions continue at a dizzying pace, as small and mid-sized businesses and farms disappear; independent doctors, lawyers, and accountants are gobbled up by larger firms; and working men and women are at the mercy of huge global conglomerates, which downsize as they export jobs overseas.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/kurtz_20_4.html

[Echo In Light]

21. Thanks for posting, Leftchick

:hi:

[leftchick]

22. my pleasure

:)

[tomp]

24. glad he sees kucinich as the patriot he is.

would that others had realized it when it mattered.

[tom_paine]

26. Imperial Amerika is like Russia and China...an Inverted Totalitarianism.

China is the least inverted and most classical of the three sister nations, Russia is following us but is "ahead" of us in the reversion because they did not have to fight a whole System of Checks and Balances standing over two centuries.

Amerika is the most inverted, and will continue to be so until either calamity firces reversion to classical totalitarianism or the last generation that remembers freedom grows old and dies.

[rucognizant]

38. That would be me!

I'm 69. We did NOT have a plutocracy when i was growing up. You could start with n othing and wind up comfortable. Compfortable I said not stinkin, looking down your nose rich, gloating over your many toys, rich! My Grandfather did it, during the depression, selling mail order wall paper! And he married a school teacher, woman with a DAR pedigree, whose Father was a high school principal. They had a bathroom on the first floor. It was behind the kitchen, at the top of the cellar stairs, and had wood wainscoating, a wood toilet seat, and a bare light bulb with a string for off/on!
My Mother's Brother did it. They grew up in a boarding House run by my Grandmother. After his WWII stint in the Merchant Marines, ( hardship pay for signing up on the mustard gas ships going to Europe,)
He wound up an insurance agent, MVCA state Senator, and Comfortable! He was an honest politician...
My Brother & I stole some pumpkins from the truck at Hunts cannery..............on his watch while our Parents were away for the weekend. He didn't spank or punish, but sat us down and gave an oration on honor, morals and eethics.................& neither of us ever stole again! He also didn't stay in politics, because of the corruption!
There are too many laws in place now changed in the last 30 years, so that it is difficult if not impossible to do that.ANd the media is propagandizing against it, NCLB is teaching the entreprenurial spirit out of the kids...... The Grandparents are forced to live inthe less expensive areas and not in daily contact with their Grandchildren, to teach old values...........
Yup Horatio ALger has died, and when I'm gone no one will remember!

[Greyhound]

27. K & R. Depressingly accurate.

:kick: & R

[OnyxCollie]

28. K&R. nt

[Phred42]

30. K & R !

[YellowRubberDuckie]

32. We call it the Corporotacracy

:shrug:

[Individualist]

36. K&R

[Baby Snooks]

37. If I were Gore Vidal...

If I were Gore Vidal I would be heading back to Italy - no doubt someone already is probably trying to find something to charge him with for the "interview with the enemy."

He is right about Congress. And that includes the Democrats. All eyes turn to the Empress. Serving the Emperor instead of the people.

[Swamp Rat]

39. McCain is a traitor who crashed 5 planes and helped the VietCong.

[Disturbed]

41. The House of Reps doesn't even have the spine to Impeach

VP Cheney, one of the most vile, war mongering, greedy, arrogant, war criminal Assholes in this War Criminal Regime. Yeah, Vidal is correct.

[bbgrunt]

42. k and r

[bread_and_roses]

44. "Congress has never been more cowardly, nor more corrupt."

Congress. Not "the Republicans in Congress." Gore, not running for anything, can tell it like it is. Yet every thread that points that out is met with defenders and Party-faithfuls explaining away how they couldn't do anything else. Long, convoluted explanations. That explain nothing. Gore says it all in nine words.

[snappyturtle]

45. K&R Thanks leftchick! Sadly, this is all true. How are we ever

going to get this turned around?

[AnneD]

46. Amen....

and Amen.

[Stevepol]

47. He's hip to the voting machines too, the big reason we're not a Democratical Republic

[ooglymoogly]

49. Gore vidal; One of the great political minds of our time.

Always glad to hear from this good man. His mind brings warmth to all but the evil. Thanx leftchick for posting this.

[earth mom]

50. K & R!

:kick:

[KoKo]

51. Gore Vidal the most Cynical of Cynics say Dennis Kucinich is the "Only Truth Teller?"

Gore Vidal: No, Congress has never been more cowardly, nor more corrupt. All Bush has do is to make sure certain amounts of money go in the direction of certain important congressmen and that's end of any serious investigation. After all, one of the bravest members of Congress is Denis Kucinich who brought the article of impeachment in to the well of the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives must then try the president, and then after that it goes to the Senate for judgment. However, none of these things will happen because there's nobody there except for Mr. Kucinich who has the courage to take on a sitting president who is kind of a Mafioso.

[Echo In Light]

57. "America has one political party with two right wings." G.Vidal

[SemperEadem]

52. Ah, the US--Land of the Owned.