DU Vegan parents: Some advice, please?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

I saw the other recent thread that became a flamefest between meat eaters and vegetarians, that's not what I'm after here.

I have a 12 year old son who has been vegetarian all his life. I'm not vegetarian, but his dad is, and we have always left it up to him as long as he eats healthy. He's a smallish kid but not overly so, and he's quite active and healthy: surfs, plays a lot of sports, very active physically and intellectually. He had slight anemia when he was young but iron pills quickly fixed that and he doesn't take any supplements now. He is healthy and growing at what seems to be a normal rate. He rarely gets sick.

Like most kids, his diet isn't hugely varied but he eats more veggies than his friends. He likes junk, too; I would say he's pretty balanced.

Recently he decided to become vegan. This a moral issue for him, based on how dairy cows and chickens are treated. He's a very smart kid, and we are supportive of his beliefs.

He's switched to soy milk with his cereal, pizza without cheese (yeah, weird, but whatever), vegan butter and soy ice cream. He never was much of a cheese or egg eater anyway, so he didn't have to give up much. Sometimes I think he's taking it a little far -- he won't eat anything with honey or gelatin, and that's in a lot of things.

Still, he gets protein from peanut butter and other nuts, calcium from fortified juices and soy products, and iron from green leafy veggies. He eats a lot of fruit, sweet potatoes, rice and beans, pasta, oatmeal, pb&j sandwiches, bagels...A pretty normal diet most of the time.

Please don't lecture me about how I should force my kid to eat whatever is for dinner, we're way past that in this house. We respect his very sincere and deeply held beliefs and wishes, and I admire his willingness to sacrifice. But he's still also only 12, and still growing, and I want to make sure he gets what he needs.

He's not adventurous enough to eat tempeh or even tofu -- he has a limited range at his age.

Any advice from experienced parents of vegans? (I would have posted this in the Parenting Group, but there doesn't seem to be much traffic there.)

[Ilsa]

1. We have a Vegetarian Forum Group: "Vegetarian, Vegan, and Animal Rights"

is the name of the forum. flvegan knows his stuff, too. Good luck.

(I'm a vegetarian. Love my eggs, but try to stick with those raised humanely. I don't do much milk or cheese or ice cream.)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

17. Great, I missed that, thanks!

We have a local egg farm that is known for being very humane. He wants to visit, but still not sure if he will eat eggs from there.

Fortunately, he never ate much in the way of milk or cheese before he became vegan. Milk in our house is mostly for coffee or cereal, and it's the Fat Free kind. And he just never developed a taste for cheese.

[Ilsa]

27. Healthier for it, I'm sure! There is also a tremendous recipe thread there.

Lots of good information in that forum.

Good luck!

[secondwind]

2. I have vegan friends, and from what I read from your post.........

YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT! Just check his protein intake once in a while.

Congratulations, on raising a vegan son! I would bet he sleeps better than most kids.

[Warpy]

3. First, he doesn't have to eat cheese free pizza

because soy cheeses are getting better and better.

If he's drinking soy milk, eating nuts and legumes, and still eating a fair variety of veggies, I wouldn't worry about how much protein he's getting. The standard US diet is much too heavy in protein foods and even teenage boys who are putting on muscle mass are getting too much on the standard diet.

Besides, you know how easy it is to penetrate the skull of a headstrong teenager. He's already got good habits and he's healthy. Don't try to fix him if he aint broke.

If he were trying to live on moon pies and French fries, you'd have a problem. He isn't. You don't.

[Betsy Ross]

4. Although I have no kids,

I would recommend that you introduce him to tempeh and tofu as an addition to stir fry dishes or fried rice, particularly the marinated varieties. Even serious meat eaters have been known to enjoy the added flavor.

I introduced my very leary husband to Japenese food with salmon teriyaki and tempura then moved to kappa maki and teka maki. Now he loves his raw fish!

[Fireweed247]

30. There are ways to sneak the tofu in too

like put it in the food processor and make cream sauces, gravies, cream of broccoli soup or add it to smoothies. Tofu is really versatile.

If he doesn't end up eating the local farm eggs, nutritional yeast is a really good source for B vitamins.

[LeftyMom]

5. My kid's been vegan since infancy, so if you need any advice, PM me.

That said, it sounds like he knows what he's doing.

As a vegan he's not really "taking it a little far" as gelatin isn't even vegetarian, and honey's not vegan and pretty easy to avoid. Neither really does anything from a nutritional standpoint, either.

I would encourage him to eat a varied diet, and make sure he takes a B12 supplement every now and then, and not really worry, myself. If you're not sure that he's eating a varied enough diet, I'd suggest helping him order a few vegan cookbooks and learning some new meals with ingredients he doesn't normally use. Most vegans I know eat a lot more varied diets than typical omnis and even their own pre-vegan diets, drawing food from many different cultures and eating lots of obscure ingredients most omnis don't even know about, let alone use regularly.

Vegan diets are safe for all parts of the life cycle and can protect against significant health problems such as diabetes, heart disease and some cancers. As long as he's eating a wide variety of food in sufficient quantity, this change should have a positive impact on his current and future health.

Edit: and there's actually good vegan soy cheese right now (the ones with casein aren't vegan- it's a dairy derivative) so he can look into getting those and having pizza with cheese again. My favorite is Teese, but Cheezly is also very good. You can order both from vegan webstores like Pangea or Cosmo's.

[coffeenap]

6. His diet sounds great--just inconvenient, lol. My kid uses brewer's

yeast as an alternative protein source. If yours doesn't like it he can add it to smoothies and won't even know it is there. (Best price at VitaCost on line.) We Americans emphasize protein more than necessary anyway. It sounds like he will be just fine! (BTW, mine won't eat gelatin or honey either, just so you don't feel alone!) Best wishes.

[Bob Dobbs]

7. What a smart and committed young man.

You have done a great job of raising that future leader.

[Elad]

8. Hey! I commend your stance on your son's decision.

It is important for him to feel support from those around him, as he's not going to get a lot of it from outside sources. I'm not a vegan parent, but I am a vegan, and I've researched nutrition topics extensively.

The fact is that it sounds like your son IS already getting everything he needs. His diet sounds a lot more balanced than mine ever was as a kid, and a lot more balanced than most kids, I'm sure. A lot of research has gone into this, and all the credible evidence (i.e., research not funded by special interests) supports the idea that anyone, including growing children, infants, and pregnant women, can thrive on a vegan diet.

I would make a couple suggestions that might improve your son's diet, but obviously with kids, it's a matter of what you can get them to eat, not necessarily what's best for them to eat.

1) see if you can replace the soy milk with rice milk (thinner than soy milk, some people don't like that) or almond milk (thick and tasty, but more expensive),
2) make sure the non-dairy butter has no hydrogenated oils in it, Earth Balance (not to be confused with Smart Balance) is a great option,
3) keep the ice cream to a minimum; try and find healthier alternatives than just sugary soy ice cream (there's a lot out there made with coconut milk which is really good for you),
4) eating vegetables like broccoli, leafy greens, and nuts and seeds is more important than tofu or tempeh. Vegetables, nuts and seeds are superior sources of protein, because the quality is much higher. Tofu and tempeh provide quantity, but not as much quality. However, tofu and tempeh (particularly tempeh) are still above-average sources of protein.
5) see if you can get him to switch from peanut butter to almond butter... it's a little creamier, but similar in taste, a little sweeter, and much much much better for you,
6) for iron, protein and calcium, add sesame seeds, sunflower seeds, and pumpkin seeds into things... if he doesn't like them whole, you can grind them in a coffee grinder and sneak them into things,
7) make sure he's getting adequate essential fatty acids; flax, hemp, walnuts and avocado are good sources.

Finally, there is a wealth of information out there on the internet. Do some googling. Your son can and sounds like he will be completely healthy on a vegan diet, and in fact, probably much healthier than his peers. Variety is key. Good luck!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

15. Elad...

1) Why should I replace soy milk with rice or almond milk? I know that too much soy is a bad idea, but he really only uses it on cereal -- he was never a milk drinker. If rice or almond milk is healthier, though, I will try it.

2) Earth Balance is in fact what we use. He loves it.

3) He likes the soy ice cream as a treat, he's big on dessert after dinner. But he also found some cookie brands that have no dairy or animal derivatives, including some kinds of Oreos. There's a great website called "Accidentally Vegan" that lists common supermarket foods that don't have any dairy in them. I have always tried to limit the junk food in the house, but am not overly protective about that, since I don't want it to be a big deal.

4) He needs more nuts and seeds, for sure.

5) I love almond butter, I will get him some. I imagine it will only be hard to switch because he's used to the standard peanut butter.

6) Good idea about grinding up the seeds. I can fool the whole family with that. :)

7) He loves avocado, we eat lots of that.

I know he's a lot healthier than his peers, most of them eat terribly!

[a la izquierda]

31. My husband and I switched to rice milk...

he became concerned after a friend's wife, a lifelong vegetarian, developed breast cancer at 30. No family history. After a discussion with his doctor and my own (I do have a lengthy family history of cancer, particularly breast cancer on my mom's side) both docs independently suggested limiting soy *where we can*. So, soy milk went, as did soy protein powder.
When we have kids, they will be raised veggie until they can decide if they want to be vegan. We do organic eggs and butter...mostly just for baking..

It's just something to keep in mind. Frankly, I love rice milk. I can't get it in Mexico, which is a bummer.

[flvegan]

9. Do you have any specific nutritional concerns?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

16. Not really, it's too soon, but..

should I be giving him a vitamin supplement? I suppose that's a choice we make whether our kids are vegan or not, and I've never been big on vitamins, I think you can get what you need from your diet. But they had some gummy vites at Trader Joes that he would eat.

[flvegan]

20. Should?

He may need a B12 supplement now and then, so a good kid's vitamin isn't a bad idea. Especially as he's starting out on a new type of diet with many different kinds of food. There are a number of vegan ones out there so you shouldn't have trouble finding one.

I'd also like to ditto what fellow vegan Elad said above, both from a nutritional standpoint and from one of praising you for allowing your kid to make his own decision.

[LeftyMom]

21. At 12, he should be able to take an adult supplement

That's usually the dividing line for adult dosing.

That would be a good deal more convenient as there are a lot more vegan multis geared toward adults than kids. And at twelve, he probably doesn't want an animal-shaped chewable anyhow. ;)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

22. Thanks

A few parents I know think that we shouldn't let him make this kind of decision, that we've given him too much "power", but this is a mature kid who really believes in animal rights, and I would never force him to eat something that is so against his nature.

When he first told me, I have to admit that it crossed my mind to just say "No" because it makes it harder to feed him, but upon reflection I can't even imagine telling him that he HAS to do something that is so against his beliefs.

Nutrition and morality aside, he's going to gain a lot from just learning to stick to his principles. I don't think it feels like sacrifice to him at all.

[flvegan]

26. Sounds like you've got a really great kid there.

Probably has a couple great parents to thank for that.

[Fireweed247]

32. Thank you! That is so sweet...

I wanted to be a vegetarian when I was growing up and was told "not when you are living under our roof!!" As soon as I left for college I stopped eating meat.

[KayLaw]

10. Hang at the health food stores.

My son and I love to go through the aisles looking at the yummy products. There are a lot of good cold and frozen products that mimic typical American junk food. Check the labels because a lot are fortified and that can guide you away from overdosing him on certain vitamins.

I agree that veggie cheese has come a long way. You can just check any nutrition site to see exactly what nutrients he needs, including iron and calcium. If he's not getting enough, supplement.

[Maine-ah]

11. they make veggie cheese too.

my daughter is allergic to milk, so we give her soy milk and I think the cheese is called Veggie Shreds, and it tastes like mozz. I even eat it.

[mitchleary]

12. As a boy

watch his soy intake, studies have been that soy mimicks estrogen and males should not consume as much. Other than that good luck he will get a lot weird looks, but will better for it.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

13. Thanks everyone for the great supportive advice!

Mostly you calmed my fears that he's not getting what he needs nutritionally. He's always been a picky eater, and when he decided to cut out dairy, I was concerned that it would make it impossible to feed him.

From reading the replies, I suppose he is on the right track. When he's home I don't really worry because we keep lots of food around that he can eat. I worry more when he's at a friend's house or a birthday party and there's nothing to eat. He doesn't like to be singled out as "different" or to have it be a big deal -- he's 12, after all, and self-concious. But he's also very proud of his choice and will tell people when they ask. I live in a community where vegetarianism is not at all unusual, so it's no big deal.

Some great advice on here, and I will heed it, thanks!

[bicentennial_baby]

14. For pizza cheese, google Teese™

They sell it online at Pangea. I'm an omnivore, and I love the stuff!

Good luck :pals:

[SmokingJacket]

18. My 11 yr old son's not a vegan, but he's extremely health conscious.

He won't eat hydrogenated oils, for instance. (It's because of his reading! I work in a bookstore and he is exposed to lots of interesting stuff.)

I think it's dangerous to take too much interest in a kid's eating. I leave mine to eat what he wants, and won't intrude -- I suspect if I did, he'd dig in his heels and become more rigid in his habits.

Unless your kid begins having health problems, I'd just offer as much healthy stuff as possible and let him choose. He sounds smart and healthy. :hi:

[justiceischeap]

19. Just FYI, for those who think being vegan means not getting enough protein

I'll have you know I'm a slightly overweight vegan. :) Before going vegan I was veg for many years and at the time of going vegan I had an overactive thyroid. About 3 months after going vegan my thyroid went back to normal and I was able to go off meds. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Anyhoo, I'm a big fan of the mock meats but here's a blog that you may find helpful... it's kept by a Mom whose kid in vegan.

It's called Vegan Lunch Box
http://veganlunchbox.blogspot.com/

Good luck!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

23. Oooh, thanks for the link!

My husband is an overweight vegetarian. But I suspect that's because he eats too many carbs, in place of meat. On the other hand, he's very athletic, his cholesterol is low and his heart is healthy, per the latest tests he's had. He's just a big guy, always has been.

My son isn't really interested in mock meats, I think because he never really had a taste for any meat.

[justiceischeap]

33. Funny that

I originally went veg for two reasons, first I didn't like meat, and second, I read about factory farming.

So yeah, I didn't like meat at all however, I like the mock meats. My roommates girlfriend makes a mean fried "chicken". When I lived in Norfolk, VA, there was a chinese place where you could get "beef" and broccoli, "shrimp" and veggies and general tso (sp) "chicken". That's where I developed my mock meat appreciation.

[Glimmer of Hope]

24. Here is another great web site:

http://www.theppk.com/

Isa Chandra's cookbooks are the best.

[Bigleaf]

25. Just a FYI for any CA voters here: VOTE YES on Prop 2! for Humane Treatment of Farm Animals

The Dem Party has also backed this proposition.

[Codeine]

28. I don't have any kids

so I can't give you any advice, but I do wish to commend your son on his strong ethics and your whole family for respecting and honoring those decisions. :hi: Vegans Rock!

[kayell]

29. A great reference book

Becoming Vegan: The Complete Guide to Adopting a Healthy Plant-Based Diet
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Vegan-Complete-Adopting-Plant-Based/dp/1570671036

It has a chapter on vegan nutrition for children.

From what you've said, he is probably fine. The biggest issue would be B12 and since he drinks soy milk (almost always fortified with B12) he probably gets it there.

Vegetarian and vegan children do tend to be (slightly) shorter than omnivore children. This may actually be a good thing as there is some evidence that within the normal height range, shorter people actually live longer. If he's in the normal range - no need to worry at all. In fact he probably eats better than most kids.

The protein issue is over blown. He probably from your description gets even more than he needs.

If you are concerned, I would suggest getting using online nutrition tracking software like nutridiary or fitday, entering his food intake periodically, and seeing how it's going. Don't worry about daily stats, just see if his average over a week is in range.

PS. Cheeseless pizza is actually quite tasty. Try thinking of it as a fully loaded focaccia.

[joop]

34. way to go!

I became vegan about 4 months ago after being veg the last 8 years or so. When I decided to go totally vegan, my 8 year old said he was going to be just like me.

At first I worried but when I saw it didn't have to be rocket science to get the adequate protein and calcium in a day, no problem. He has since added some cheese and fish back in his diet but he remains largely vegan.

He sounds healthy and he's so lucky to have your support. If you find yourself going bankrupt buying soymilk, consider a soymilk maker. My sons only drink maybe one cup a day and with all the studies I've read it's overdosing on the very processed soy items (powders, bars, lunchmeats, etc) that causes issues.

Just give him a B12 from time to time and a hearty hug for keeping himself so healthy!

[demwing]

35. We've been on and off Vegs for years

and I've found that sometimes, the best advice anyone can give is a great cookbook.

"The Monastery Cookbook" has been our Vegan cooking bible for years. All of the recipes are written for newbs, fully vegan, but easily adaptable to veggie diets. The author has a sense of humor, and neither gets preachy nor condescends. The recipes are designed for those who want to imitate meat dishes, but want an alternative for ethical reasons.

Best yet, they teach you how to make stuff from scratch, not just using store brands for everything.

It's out of print, but Amazon still carries it. A little pricey, but worth EVERY cent:

http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Heavenly-Monastery-Vegetarian-Cookbook/dp/0028612671