**********OFFICIAL BAILOUT HEARING THREAD #4*********

[shadowknows69]

CSPAN 3
<http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3>

I'm going to have to bail out on the threads after this one so someone please take over if need be.

[HeraldSquare212]

1. which moron was asking those questions about other bidders?

[Subdivisions]

2. What a stupid question. Questions about other bidders are

justified.

[HeraldSquare212]

4. He had it backwards. He didn't understand what a reverse auction was.

[flamingdem]

34. They are con artists. I am disgusted. They are not making their case.

They won't take less? Liars. Con artists.

[MadrasT]

3. AGAIN with "We wanted to protect the taxpayer"

:puke:

[Gin]

6. not to worry..MSNBC is explaining it all for us

[Solly Mack]

5. Look...you're screwing me over...at least stop claiming to give a damn about me

"for the tax payers"..."we care about the tax payers"

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. I cannot stand Paulson and the faces and body language. I don't

trust this man.

[gateley]

8. DId Reed just smirk when Paulson said 'this is not about companies, this

is about the American people'?

Reed's getting a little testy. GOOD!

[Gin]

11. Reed's question about only selling to financially regulated entities

tripped Hank up big time.....Hank actually insinuated he would sell to anyone who wanted to buy...

[Mist]

9. I get the feeling Paulson's a bit thrown that everyone on the Sen. panel isn't

either corrupt or a complete idiot that he can bamboozle with his talk of "complexity."

[barbtries]

10. why if this is the biggest fucking crisis to hit our shores

in 100 years, do they have to be keeping their eyes on the clock?! they should plug away at it until they get all the answers they need, and NO decision - NO capitulation - if they don't know enough.

[Solly Mack]

12. but he didn't ask for strong oversight...

[barbtries]

14. hell no

he asked for absolute power with questions not even ALLOWED

[MorningGlow]

13. Enzi calls it "an experiment"

:applause:

Paulson's looking a LOT more nervous!

[Mist]

15. I'd really like to see "sweat saddlebags" under his arms before they're thru. nt

[Roland99]

16. Has *any* Senator raised the prospect of HYPERINFLATION when this hits $2-3 Trillion???

When the credit card and auto loan companies climb aboard, too??

[shadowknows69]

17. I hate Chuck Schumer

Insurance fund for the big banks? Ok, from now on but we shouldn't have to put up the first one.

[BraneMatter]

18. Vote in CNBC's bailout poll

Check out the CNBC poll HERE

[Subdivisions]

20. Thanks! Results so far:

Who stands to gain the most from the proposed bailout plan? * 11221 responses

Wall Street
65%

Main Street
4.4%

Both
18%

Neither
7.3%

Don't know
5.6%

[gateley]

26. There was a poll yesterday -- should we do the bailout?

The highest number of responders voted NO --

That was encouraging, that the American people aren't buying this blindly and out of fear.

[gateley]

40. Same breakdown now, with 11499 responses.

[barbtries]

i don't like that poll

it doesn't give BFEE as an option. and since it supposedly is meant to save wall street....

[Solly Mack]

19. "remember the tax payers" "care about the tax payers" "protect the tax payers"

like a rapist telling you how much he loves you while raping you

[Mist]

25. Well, shit, the taxpayers have to have a bit of money to keep getting involved

in the bamboozlement, and keep the whole rotten game going.

[suffragette]

29. and Paulson's plan is very like Palin's mayoral approved policy

of making the rape victims for the kits.

[Solly Mack]

32. that's the gospel

[Solly Mack]

21. bailout in tranches?

[Gin]

27. he wants it all now becuase....... he will be gone.....how obvious

scam artist

[Mist]

31. Yeah, he's got a luxury condo in Dubai that he needs to move into, post-election. nt

[Solly Mack]

36. I'm glad I wore my waders

[Mist]

39. dupe--sorry

[Solly Mack]

22. list of companies/firms who will re-purchase later?

Can we get that list?

[SoCalDem]

23. "when we come back in January"... sez baldie..

so.... what's the rush, dude??

[shadowknows69]

24. They won't even take less money

All or nothing? WTF!!! Give him nothing.

[MadrasT]

28. WAAAAAAAH!!!

[MorningGlow]

33. OMG "we've decided"

SHADDAP, Paulson. You suck.

[shadowknows69]

30. Ok Chuck bought back some creds

He's holding him to the fire on the amount.

[HeraldSquare212]

37. I don't know, that sounded kind of phony to me

[MorningGlow]

38. He's asking reasonable questions

Why DO they need the whole lump sum "in their pocket, next to their bazooka"?
:rofl:

[shadowknows69]

41. That was good, someone in the background audibly laughed too

[gopbuster]

43. I like his idea about an industry wide tax to help pay for this fiasco

[gopbuster]

35. "market confidence" translates to market capitalization

they are scared to death about these companies losing their stock values

[Gin]

42. yep...thats what scares them the stock values....

[Mist]

47. I thought the mortgage market, and the credit market were the thing here? Stocks rise and fall,

they need to stabilize the credit and mortgage markets, seems to me.

[gopbuster]

64. They stopped the shorting of the financial stocks in order to salvage

the market capitalizations of these companies which directly relates to the credit ratings of these companies.

[MadrasT]

44. Hagel: "Walk us through the oversight"

This ought to be good. :popcorn:

[MorningGlow]

48. He's not getting an answer...

[barbtries]

52. okay? okay? okay?

we need oversight. we need transparency. apparently we need all that after they've plundered everything. mouth is dry tongue is swollen. i wish he'd take a drink of water and it's getting to be as difficult looking at him as it is looking at gw cheney or rice.

[MorningGlow]

65. Oh man that lizard tongue

Gonna give me nightmares, man...
:scared:

[barbtries]

67. it's gross

but not as offensive as the words coming out of his mouth. obviously he holds the american people in utter contempt.

[Solly Mack]

45. if you give a mouse a cookie

[MorningGlow]

46. ROFL!

Best analogy yet! Bravo!

[Solly Mack]

60. It was what I was hearing

:)

Thanks!!

[Solly Mack]

49. transparency from the Bush admin.? Since when?

[MadrasT]

Paulson is not convincing me with his

"We want transparency" BS.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

68. Ah, transparency.... how about his 3 page plan that he wants them to sign on the dotted line

which gives him dictatorial control of our treasury???

:rofl:

[Mist]

50. Paulson will "explain the process" AFTER HE GETS THE MONEY. Oh, okay. nt

[WolverineDG]

53. He who pays the piper calls the tune, Paulson

Not the other way around, asshat.

dg

[Solly Mack]

54. Naturally

and then they'll hide and lie and delay until 2009

[Mist]

61. They don't have that long, I'm thinking. That explains the nervousness. nt

[pleah]

51. OMG! He is starting to sound like Mr. Garrison on SouthPark!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ok!

[MorningGlow]

59. So does that mean

When he finally loses control he's gonna shout "You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!"
:rofl:

[shadowknows69]

55. You're starting to stutter Hank

And what guarantee do we have this "investment" will work? Zero, none, nada, you've admitted this.

[MorningGlow]

56. There it is, the last bastion of the sheister salesman

"This is an investment..."
:puke:

[barbtries]

57. experimentation???

for-fucking-get it. it's too much money.

[Buttercup McToots]

58. THIS IS AN IMPASSE

THIS IS AN IMPASSE

Congress rightfully wants oversight/protection of taxpayer

Paulson can't give it because it would self negate the bailout

WE MIGHT BE CLOSE TO THE END

Its all because his pockets are empty and he needs the extra 700 billion in treasurys.

[GoodSpud]

62. In case anyone else was puzzled by 'tranche'

Your $700,000,000,000.00 word of the day.

From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranche

In structured finance, a tranche (misspelled as traunch or traunche) is one of a number of related securities offered as part of the same transaction. The word tranche is French for slice, section, series, or portion. In the financial sense of the word, each bond is a different slice of the deal's risk. Transaction documentation (see indenture) usually defines the tranches as different "classes" of notes, each identified by letter (e.g. the Class A, Class B, Class C securities). The term "tranche" is used in fields of finance other than structured finance (such as in straight lending, where "multi-tranche loans" are commonplace), but the term's use in structured finance may be singled out as particularly important. Use of "tranche" as a verb is limited almost exclusively to this field.

[BraneMatter]

63. Here's a scenario for you...

Congress votes NO BAILOUT.

U.S. economy totally crashes. There is no more money for Iraq War or Afghanistan War. All troops must come home immediately.

Russia, sensing weakness, invades Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, etc., and seizes most of the world's oil supply. Meanwhile, the Chinese and Arabs are left holding trillions in useless dollars, and the Saudi Royal family suddenly has no place to live.

Hmmm... maybe the Saudis, having a vested interest in their own survival, and should put up some money here!!! Maybe the Chinese should just give away a few of the U.S. dollars to protect the value of the rest they are holding??? Why is the U.S. taxpayer the only one on the hook here???

After all, where is the Middle East if the U.S. is financially unable to field a military force to protect the oil fields from Russia, Iran, Al Qaeda, or who knows????

In other words, if the WHOLE WORLD ECONOMY is on the line here, then how come the U.S. taxpayer is the only one that has to bail it out??? Do other nations bear NO responsibility for this mess???

[LSK]

66. Paulson needs to learn how to explain this

He needs to explain how banks use these securities and what happens when there are a lot of bad securities.

He is not doing that.

[Mist]

70. Paulson, "explain"??!! "No explanations till we get the goddamn money!" nt

[barbtries]

69. oversight, sure,

just not today.
FUCK THAT!

[Mist]

72. "Full transparency" AFTER we get the money. Just so you can see precisely how

you were all screwed.

[marmar]

dupe....new mouse time

n/t

[marmar]

71. To quote Lando Calrissian:

"This deal is getting worse all the time." (apologies to non-Star Wars fans)

[Gin]

73. Dodd just gave him the ok.......IMHO

[shadowknows69]

77. that did sound a little conciliatory

[Mist]

74. It's an appropriate quote. nt

[Subdivisions]

75. Is anyone else sick of hearing cellular devices chattering with

their towers? God that's getting on my nerves. The FCC needs to fix that shit. Happens everywhere. On my computer I hear it. On my car radio I hear it. And anytime someone on TV goes near a microphone I hear it.

Annoying as hell.

[barbtries]

76. the bastard is lying

if congress gives him the death grip on that much money he won't let go. and he's a member of the gw admin - they don't DO oversight, they don't DO transparency!

it's transparent that this is a bad, bad deal for america and should be shot down asap. boot paulson and bring in some people who give a rat's ass about the country more than their own wealth and their friends' ill-gotten gains.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

79. The big problem for the committee is that they approved Paulson as Secy, so it

would be hard to talk about not trusting him without placing their own judgment in question.

[barbtries]

88. was it unanimous?

i doubt that. and not only that, but he wasn't demanding absolute power over 700 bn + when he was approved. and if somebody cannot own a little responsibility for their fuckups, whether it was letting the economy go to hell or approving the wrong man for the fix, i'm going to have a stroke. when i fuck up, i own it. nobody's perfect. the whole culture is sick i mean mentally ill.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

98. yahoo search is a friend....it was Unanimous.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-15764291_ITM

Senate confirms Paulson as Treasury secretary.

(From CBS Marketwatch (Stories))

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Goodbye, Wall Street. Hello, Pennsylvania Avenue. The Senate on Wednesday confirmed President Bush's nomination of Henry Paulson to be the nation's next Treasury secretary.

The Senate approved the nomination by voice vote. Bush nominated Paulson, the departing CEO of Goldman Sachs, earlier this month to replace John Snow, who has headed Treasury since 2003.

Confirmation came just hours after the Senate Finance Committee approved Paulson's nomination by unanimous voice vote. Paulson testified before the committee for around three hours in...

[barbtries]

105. ugh.

i don't like the choice. i'm getting a real headache.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

108. When I listen to hearings like this I honestly believe that I have

a masochistic streak in me...

[barbtries]

109. lol

my head hurts, i swear my bp is going up. yet i feel as if i have a responsibility to witness this. it's really excruciating at this point because it could go either way. this is not a good plan.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

112. Trust me, We The People are being raped in front of your own eyes.

[Solly Mack]

78. oooh...ooooh....oooh....roomy pockets

please dig deeper mister government man.....leave me the crumbs and I'll eat'em from your hands

[shadowknows69]

82. I want to get back to why they won't take any less than the full 700B

Someone calling in a big marker before the Bush administration leaves?

[Solly Mack]

86. I know. I read where Bush called China and , supposedly, gave them a detailed

account of what he's planning with regards to this bailout

but who knows? Bush admin. will never - ever - tell the truth.

[MorningGlow]

80. I'm getting stutter fatigue

This guy is just making me tired now.

[underpants]

FAIL

A demonstrator holds up a sign behind US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson(L) and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke(R) as they address a hearing before the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee on Capitol Hill. Bernanke and Paulson urged Congress to swiftly pass a 700-billion-dollar Wall Street bailout, warning the entire US economy was at risk.
(AFP/Getty Images/Chip Somodevilla)

[MorningGlow]

85. NICE

This IS an epic fail.

[Solly Mack]

81. lolololol "work out the transparency" ( yeah..work it right out of the deal)

[shadowknows69]

83. Go Menendez!!

[MorningGlow]

84. YEAH calling bullshit!

"Get the feeling we're flying by the seat of our pants" INDEED.

[Solly Mack]

87. I want nearly 1 trillion dollars and I can't tell the future on whether or not

all the money will come back...but...trust me...it's for the good of the tax payers

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. And has anyone asked in this open hearing... why $700 Billion?

They are taking that figure as a given.

[Solly Mack]

93. Isn't it curious? That number is a must...everything else? not so much

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

111. It's like the new paradigm that they are working on with Iran... (against all

Intelligence), Iran is trying to create nuclear weapons...what do we do?

I just don't trust Congress to work in our own best interest. I wonder how many of them are being paid off, how many of them have compromising photos being held over their heads??? This is on track to becoming the biggest heist in history. Shrub is definitely not a failure. He has succeeded in the destruction of our country, which IMHO is his goal.

:banghead:

[shadowknows69]

96. Schumer, believe it or not asked them if they could work with less

given the fact they weren't even planning to spend it all in the next 4 months. He wouldn't accept anything but all the money now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

99. I have the same feelings about my Senator Schumer as you do. Yet, did he ask where did that amount

come from?

[shadowknows69]

101. I don't recall exactly

I was so shocked he was showing any backbone at all I think my mind blanked out.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

107. lol!

[Mist]

89. Bernanke claims the $7 gazillion will be partially recovered. nt

[MorningGlow]

90. Great googly moogly

"Can you quantify the risk?" "NO, but..."
:wtf:

[Solly Mack]

92. Oh, honey...they can look you in the eye and lie

[shadowknows69]

94. Probably beat a polygraph

[LSK]

97. not lying, just horrible communication skills

He talks like everyone is a finance guru and he needs to talk in more specific and simple terms.

[LSK]

95. SAY YOU ARE FIXING ASSETS YOU IDIOT

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Mist]

100. One of the big "communication" problems here is:

Paulson natters on about "wanting to fix the system," but WHICH system? The system that works for the general taxpayer (which has been mightily shat upon since 2001), or the system that works for Hank and his cronies?

[Mist]

102. Bernanke: "Wall Street's an abstraction." Until it fucks us all. Then it's quite real. nt

[BraneMatter]

110. Good one...

No, GREAT ONE! LOL!!!!

[shadowknows69]

103. THREAD FIVE. Sherrod Brown up

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4067459>

[Solly Mack]

104. "mistakes were made" (oh...now there's a new one)

[BraneMatter]

106. Let me see if I get this right...

Bad mortages. Bad mortgage backed securities. No one knows what they are worth. (If they were worth anything, then why do we need a bailout?) World economy in danger of collapse unless American taxpayer agrees to buy all the trash. No guarantee of any return on the "illiquid" (Paulson's description) trash for the taxpayer. No known "price discovery mechanism." (It's too "complex." Paulson's description). No guarantee of "no risk to the taxpayer." (NO KIDDING!!!)

AND, give a trillion plus dollars to the politician to hand out to the crooks who caused the mess, and hope they will have our best interest at heart.

Ok, I think I'm clear on it now...