I think I finally get what the Dems in Congress are trying to do with the bail-out bill

[Odin2005]

I'm thinking they are telling the Pukes to support the Dem bail-out bill or it will get canned, they aren't going to fall for the Puke's trap. This is why the Pukes are having a hissy-fit.

[leftofcool]

1. No bail out!

No giving away our tax money to dead beat WS con artists. They need money, we can loan it to them. If the Dems get their way on this, they will have hell to pay when it doesn't work.

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. We are "loaning it to them"

That's why the Dems want warrants/equity stakes.

That's what that means.

[Odin2005]

6. Exactly, the Dem bill is actually pretty good. n/t.

[leftofcool]

9. Yea, as long as tax payers are footing the bill..... no thanks

The government can take it from the Pentagon budget and maybe a few other worthless departments.

[Spike from MN]

17. I have to respectfully disagree.

I think taxpayers should foot the bill.

Of course, by "taxpayers" I mean those in the top 1% (and especially the top .1%), NOT US.

And they need to tax ALL their income at high rates. That means capital gains and dividends too.

Oh and they should take from the Pentagon budget too. And DHS. They also need to do away with offshore tax havens.


Tax the rich and leave the rest of us out of it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. It's silly season

Yes, be mad.

It's helpful.

[nradisic]

5. It is really not a bailout...

The Dems are structuring it as an asset sale. If the taxpayers can make some money of the assets and fully regulate Wall Street and Executive pay, we will all be ahead.

[dorkulon]

24. There's a reason no one else will buy those "assets"

Even if they were likely to be worth some thing in 10 or 20 years, someone would be willing to buy them. But the truth is they're not. The idea that we're going to make even a significant portion of our money back is laughable.

[nradisic]

2. No it is the Dem way or the Highway...

Ha! Ain't Karma fucking bitch!

[SmallTimeFarmer]

3. how did we go from....

How did we go from a week ago feeling that this bill was being jammed down our throat by large business interest and the republicans administration, to now fighting to get republicans to pass it? 80% of America doesn't want it and Democrats are fighting to give $700 BILLION dollars to Wall Street Banks....are they really this stupid?

Only way Dems come out ahead on this one is to walk away. Let it all collapse on Bush's watch.

[NeedleCast]

7. Democrats are fighting to give $700 BILLION dollars to Wall Street Banks

Except, that's really not what they're trying to do.

Please understand that LOAN and GIVE are not the same thing.

[riverdeep]

10. But who said that taxpayer funding is the only way to structure this?

The administration did, that's who. They gave us no time with our backs against the wall as the session ends. To the extent that other ways of providing security to the market can be attained, that should be the first resort, and the taxpayers the last. Although, when they are involved, they should be treated like any other investor who takes a risk, rewarded when times are good, a smart thing the Dems tried to include.

And the 700 billion figure was literally pulled out of their ass:

""It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html

[Not the Only One]

16. It's like a loan to a dead-beat brother-in-law.

You're stupid if you loan him the money and expect to ever get repaid.

[Odin2005]

8. The Dems re-wrote the bill so that it is not really a bail-out.

They are making sure that this is like a loan and that we actually will get our money back.

[leftofcool]

11. If it is such a good loan/plan then "borrow" it from

the Pentagon budget, not the taxpayers

[mmonk]

13. I have no problem with doing that. I have a problem with screwing

the victims to satisfy someone's pleasure.

[NeedleCast]

14. Ummmm, the Pentago budget

is funded by taxpayers as well. Just sayin...

[shraby]

19. The Pentagon budget is still taxpayer

money!

[shraby]

18. Believe me, the Dems won't come out ahead

if they walk away. They WILL get blamed when the walls come tumbling down around everyone for not doing anything. Their best bet is to get the other side on board. Here is Obama's plan which is pretty much the Dem plan. I don't see any give away to wall street here.

1. Taxpayers should have equity, not just debt. This means they will have an upside as well as a downside.
2. Oversight will be bipartisan and without conflicts of interest.
3. Homeowners must be helped as well as their lenders in this mess. This means a moratorium on foreclosures involving principal residences. This could be done without infusion, but with non-cash backstopping and would help stop the property price crash.
4. Caps on salaries and other compensation will be strictly imposed on any institution that receives tax dollars.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Wedge Politics

I think the Democrats are playing a game the GOOP did for many years...wedging the repugnicans and playing one side against the other.

Right now the far right wingnuts of the House (Pence, Kantor, Bachmann and so on) are in open revolt with the White House and the Senate. I was expecting a knife fight, but I expected it AFTER the elections, not before. This issue has brought this quiet war into the open. It's the same war that forced Gramps to put Palin on the ticket rather than Liebermann and to flip flip on virtually every moderate position he had.

For years, boooosh could cover up the divides by playing one side against the other and when he had full control everyone got a bone. Now he's a lame duck...a dangerous one...but a lame duck nonetheless. He wants this bail-out to cover the financial games his regime participated in cause they see Gramps election chances going down the tubes. That's why the "urgency" to bail out now.

From what I'm seeing, the Democrats have gotten some serious concessions in this bill...finally getting boooosh to cave in. The problem/fun is the splintering of the repugnican party...the open contempt many now have not only toward boooooosh but Gramps as well. For those of us who have watched the House over the past two years, this juvenile hissy-fit shit is modus operandi for the Boner gang. Let's see if booooosh can crack the whip...and when he does, more damage will occur.

The backstory here is how spoiled the GOOP brand has become...and how splintered the party is getting. Many in the party are expecting big losses this November...even if Gramps somehow pulls out a victory. The House repugnicans, in specific, will be relegated to oblivion and this is one of their last gasps at making some noise.

The fun is just beginning...

[Odin2005]

21. I'm thinking pretty much the same thing.

This in the GOP's 1968.

[bdamomma]

15. I hope what you're saying is true

about the Dems not falling into a trap.

[theDash]

22. I agree with Spike

Raise the taxes on the top 1% (actually more like the top 10%), close corporate loopholes, and raise capital gains taxes and then these greedy bastards can pay for their own bailout.

Of course, the republicans are now saying just the opposite, they want to change the plan to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations. Geebus Friggin Christ.

[SmallTimeFarmer]

23. It won't work.

It won't work...$700B in taxpayer money is going to go *poof*. Big financial companies are going to make out like bandits, especially the CEO's and other higher-ups, the economy is still going to tank, and the Republicans are going to be able to beat the dems over the head with the "largest increase in govt spending", "bailout for the rich", govt intrustion" mantra in every election for years to come.

Its pathetic, the Republicans destroyed the country in just 8 short years, and they have found a willing set of dopes (the Democrats), to put all the blame on...and now the Dems are actually *fighting for* the opportunity to get all the blame...

I think we may have seriously over-estimated the intelligence of the democrats leading this party....

[KittyWampus]

25. No, it's not going "poof" because there's a lot of valuable assets involved.