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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:40 PM
Original message
OBAMA might be the 6th or 7th Black president, not the 1st
Following a suggestion, I found these other sources for this topic, which all cover the same bullet points. I heard this on last night's one-of-Art-BELL's-wannabes' show.


*******QUOTE*******

http://www.mixedheritagecenter.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1471&Itemid=29

Obama Wouldn't Be First Black President


By Aysha Hussain
February 16, 2007

.... ...Leroy Vaughn, author of Black People and Their Place in World History.

Vaughn's research shows Jefferson was not the only former black U.S. president. Who were the others? Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge. ....

Jefferson, who served two terms between 1801 and 1809, was described as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father," as stated in Vaughn's findings. Jefferson also was said to have destroyed all documentation attached to his mother, even going to extremes to seize letters written by his mother to other people. ....

...Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man, according to Leroy's findings. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents. ....

...(COOLIDGE) claimed his mother was dark because of mixed Indian ancestry. Coolidge's mother's maiden name was "Moor" and in Europe the name "Moor" was given to all blacks just as "Negro" was used in America. It later was concluded that Coolidge was part black.



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08036/854713-51.stm

Racial heritage of six former presidents is questioned


Tuesday, February 05, 2008
By Monica Haynes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

.... ...the discussion of presidential ethnicity that dates as far back as Thomas Jefferson. The third president of the United States was described by a political opponent as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father." ....

...five other U.S. presidents who may have had black ancestry, but never publicly acknowledged it: Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge and Dwight D. Eisenhower. Despite author Toni Morrison's infamous 1998 declaration, Bill Clinton was not on the list. ....

When a friend asked him about it, Mr. Harding is reported to have said, "How do I know, Jim? One of my ancestors may have jumped the fence." ....

Aysha Hussain cited Los Angeles historian Dr. Leroy Vaughn's 2001 book "Black People and Their Place in History" as the main source for her February 2007 article in Diversity Inc. magazine "Obama Wouldn't Be First Black President." ....

..."Vaughn cites an article written in the Virginia Magazine of History that Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man. The magazine also stated that Jackson's oldest brother had been sold as a slave." ....

...J.A. Rogers wrote his book, "Five Black Presidents," self-published in 1965, which serves as the basis for most of the more recently published works on the subject.

"Virtually, all we know came from J.A. Rogers," said Dr. Vaughn, who based his chapter on black presidents on Mr. Rogers' research and that of Dr. Auset Bakhufu. Dr. Bakhufu's 1993 book "The Six Black Presidents Black Blood: White Masks" includes Eisenhower. ....



(Amazon-com Customer/historian review of BAKHUFU, regarding EISENHOWER: )

http://www.amazon.com/Six-Black-Presidents-Blood-White/dp/1880187000

61 of 65 people found the following review helpful:
I'm So Sorry, August 31, 2002
By A Customer

Sorry, but I have to offer a dissenting opinion. When J.A. Rogers wrote the Five Black Presidents--that was a landmark work. This book is not. Let me explain why. First, Dr. BaKhufu's feelings about whites mars the book. She can't stop letting her anger intrude on the narrative. Second, she makes a lot of mistakes that would be insignificant by themselves but put together make the book look bad. First, Thomas Jeffeson was born in Goochland County, not Coochland. His boyhood home was Tuckahoe, not Tockahoe. Sally Hemmings was not auctioned off; she was set free by Martha Jefferson and allowed to stay in Virginia with her sons as free people by an act of the state legislature. Robert Lincoln was predjudiced, not predjudice...The author really should've gone to a proofreader and fact checker.

Several chapters are simply weird. The author's poems and even a herbal remedy for hoarse throats are scattered throughout the book and she goes off on these wild tangents. One minute you'll be reading about Abe Lincoln, and in the very next she's accusing Eleanor Roosevelt of being a lesbian. The sad thing is that the book doesn't settle down and get serious until the middle. The section on Harding, who probably had black ancestry is very good. The chapter on Eisenhower is pretty good but other than a picture of his mother there is no credible proof offered that he was black.

As a black person and a historian I know that the truth of history is often not what we were taught in school. Lies have been told about black people and our contributions to this country but that doesn't justify making up a mythos of our own. So, to sum up I have to say that this book doesn't cut it as serious history (except for the Harding section) but it does do one thing: It makes the reader curious about J.A. Rogers and his books.

********UNQUOTE*******
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Unhelpful.
At any other time, this kind of speculation would be interesting. Right now it just seems like another way to diminish Obama.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. not sure if it's unhelpful. It is interesting. And dovetails with articles detailing Obama's Irish
heritage.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, just the opposite, because his core opponents are closet racists and this deflates them. n/t
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. I tried to buy a copy from Amazon a few months ago
and was shocked that they were all out and now, in the link above, they have a used one for $95.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ya know, I hope I see the day when...
discussions of whether or not so-and-so had Black ancestry are no more inflammatory or earthshaking than whether or not he had Irish ancestry.

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The quotes presented are fairly flat in tone. Are items aboutOBAMA's being related toCHEENEE & Brad
Edited on Sun Oct-05-08 12:57 PM by UTUSN
PITT *not* "inflammatory and earth shaking", but rather, titillating and glamorous?


Will the first woman or Hispanic or whoever-else's becoming the first one *not* be remarked upon?



(Gosh, I've even dropped the "!1" which means something!1)
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I was speaking in general...
not about this specific thread. Perhaps I should have used less infammatory language myself?

For my entire life, like everyone else, I have had race shoved down my throat as if these tiny differences in genetic code actually are significant. I simply wish to see the day when race becomes irrelevant.

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks for the reasoned post. n/t
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. The history is debated, obviously.
I graded for an African American History course at Texas one semester, and of course the professor, George Wright, talked about this. He wasn't convinced by any of the research or evidence on this. Most of the evidence seemed to come from what opponents said about each of these men. It would be like writing a history in 100 years that described Obama as the first Muslim president, despite being a black radical who hated America and white people.
As I recall, he didn't really argue that the evidence was wrong, just unreliable.

He also made an interesting point on the subject. Even if there have been presidents with partial African ancestry, there hasn't been a president yet who was raised African American, who was part of the African American culture, or who campaigned openly as an African American. Obama would be the first in that regard.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thomas Moore was Black???
"in Europe the name "Moor" was given to all blacks just as "Negro" was used in America." So by logical extension anyone with a name containing -more or -moore must be of African descent. And so would anyone called "Black" or "Brown" or variants thereof - like Schwartzenneger :)

Lincoln was called Abraham Africanus? Could there possibly be an alternative explanation, say his opposition to slavery and a desire by his opponents to slander him?

Of course, humans being what they are, it's entirely possible that one or more presidents had ancestors of relatively recent African ancestry. Lincoln's ancestry on his father's side is traceable back to England, but on his mother's it peters out after a few generations, so who knows?

All I know is I wouldn't be so quick to claim Harding - former titleholder of Worst President Ever - as kin. I'm uncomfortable enough having Andrew Jackson being the same species as me!



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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Lincoln's mother was probably Melungeon
That's where the black concept comes from.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'd say "possibly" rather than "probably"
I've read some of the arguments for Lincoln's mother's being Melungeon, and I have to say I found them not very convincing. For example, this site cites as proof Lincoln's resemblance to a portrait of his mother - drawn long after her death by someone who never met either of them.

There's a lot of interesting research, I think, that remains to be done on racial mixing on the American frontiers: I suspect it was a lot more common than generally believed. The Spanish even developed a whole system of categorizing the offspring of various mixtures. Native American ancestry is probably common among old European-American families - Woodrow Wilson's wife was a descendant of Pocahontas. On the other hand, there's a lot of romanticizing among amateur genealogists, who, like my grandmother, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'm not talking about visual resemblance, I'm talking about actual familial history
There's no question about the Melungeon -- the DNA studies confirm that they're descended from the "untouchable ones". They're only slightly blended with other cultures. The finding was amazingly consistent.

I think there's strong evidence (based on ethnographic analyses) that his mother was Melungeon but YMMV.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. The intersting thing about this subject is that the traits of Lincoln's being used as evidence
Edited on Sun Oct-05-08 04:32 PM by FedUpWithIt All
such as his skin tone and coarse dark hair were actually the same traits attributed to his father Thomas.


Both Lincoln and his parents had hazel eyes.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. 10 points to whoever can see the false syllogism of this:
in Europe the name "Moor" was given to all blacks .....

" So by logical extension anyone with a name containing -more or -moore must be of African descent.

"Therefore, Michael Moore is black"


then it would follow that when Oliver said "Please sir, may I have some more?"
he was not asking for porridge.

My brain feel so much more enlightened now.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. ok, I'll put in the :sarcasm:
I didn't think it was necessary: yes, it's taking a specious argument to its conclusion.

Since the article cited by the OP states "Coolidge's mother's maiden name was "Moor" and in Europe the name "Moor" was given to all blacks just as "Negro" was used in America. It later was concluded that Coolidge was part black.", concluding that Michael Moore is of African descent fits right in with Vaughan's logic. Myself, I think he's more probably Black Irish, at least in part :)

Actually, the whole "X was African-American" is an interesting way of turning the whole One Drop notion on its head.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. We're all related
Even Queen Victoria was black by American definitions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/roots/2004/02/blackbrit.shtml

Queen Vic's Black Granny

Queen Charlotte, wife of the English King George III and Queen Victoria's grandmother, was directly descended from Margarita de Castro y Sousa, a black branch of the Portuguese Royal House.

In the autobiography of the Queen's personal physician, Baron Stockmar, described her as having 'a true mulatto face.'
-----
Victoria sure had a black behind. :D
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. okay
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wasn't Harding supposedly a member of the KKK?
Damn, that's where Dave Chapelle got that skit idea from. :)
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-05-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. What is this, Dave Chappelle's racial draft episode remixed?
:rofl:
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