Next For Cheney: A Trip To The Hague?

[jpertello]

Gene Burns is one of the nation’s most popular talk radio hosts. For years he has dismissed accounts of torture; America, he has said, does not torture. But last night, after watching Torturing Democracy and realizing that he had not understood how important and serious an issue torture had become, Burns abruptly changed his tune. Here’s a transcript of his remarks.

"I now believe that some international human rights organization ought to open an investigation of the Bush Administration, I think focused on Vice President Dick Cheney, and attempt to bring charges against Cheney in the international court of justice at The Hague, for war crimes..."

-more-
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/11/hbc-90003846

[KharmaTrain]

1. Time Is The Avenger...

I warned to keep a close eye on this regime as it sneaks out the back door...shreading and burying bodies every step of the way. It looks like boooshie will try to use a retro-active Executive Immunity to try to keep the lid on the crimes, and it'll be our fight in the near future to push that this doesn't happen...this "immunity" goes to court, is struck down and the truth comes forth. I'm sure there will be plenty of wagging tongues in the year ahead as well...we're just scratching the surface on the crimes and corruption that occured during the past 8 years.

One way or another, my hopes are none of these war criminals ever see a peaceful day...be it through a much deserved international war tribunal or civil or criminal law suits. It'll be interesting to see if there's an international call for an investigation...or if the fix is already in at the UN.

It's my ultimate dream to see crashcart, rummy, boooshie, rove, wolfowitz and others in the dock in the Hague...but I suspect the first two may already have their cyinide capsules ready so they never are called to justice.

[goforit]

4. Unfortunately it will never be tried through Congress or the Supreme Court.

These other two branches were accomplices to many of these crimes.

[KharmaTrain]

5. Thank Goodness...

The last thing I want is politicians involved in this. The more prosecutors the better. These crimes were well beyond our corrupt criminal justice system...maybe that will change. My hopes are the lower level scum will be investigated by a rejuvenated Justice Department...and even better, by a specially selected Special Prosecutor to wade through the long list of probable crimes.

Cheers...

[goforit]

18. Well yes a Special prosecutor would be a start.

Exposing the truth will be a spiritual uplifting moment for all of humanity. Good or Bad.
It would be a fresh start for all.

[ixion]

2. if there is any justice in the world, it will be a trip for ALL the Bush cabal

and the neocon puppets who enabled them.

[madokie]

3. There will be

they, the bush/cheney cabal, will not walk away from this as free men or women. My thinking is the dick will meet his maker shortly but I can see the bushler as having many more years left in him.

[90-percent]

6. Justice enough for me

Cyanide capsules are perfectly acceptable to me.

May this entire White House enjoy their final moments as Eva and Adolph did in the Berlin Bunker in April, 1945.

I hope their corpses are eventually found in their handy "undisclosed locations" they liked while they enjoyed violating the constitution and all the principles this country was founded on.

-90% jimmy

[surrealAmerican]

21. I don't really care how these monsters die, but ...

... I want a clear example to others that torture is unacceptable, no matter how powerful you are. This should not go uninvestigated.

[Octafish]

7. Sneer, sure. Smirko, certainly.

The sneering NAZI's boss signed off on Vice's suggestions.

[bvar22]

8. I am willing to help provide some $motivation$

I will donate $500 to ANY organization that will place a Bounty on Bush/Cheney to be paid to anyone who provides evidence that leads to their indictment or arrest for War Crimes.

A small, transparent trust located in a neutral country like Switzerland could administer the fund. If the BOUNTY is promoted internationally, it would quickly grow to Mega-Millions.

The fund would also be tasked with running full page Wanted For War Crimes ads in major Global newspapers every 3 months until the Bounty is awarded or depleted.

I believe that such a fund would be wildly popular worldwide, and provide the administrators an opportunity to make a little money.
I have neither the resources or skills to institute such a fund, but like I said above, I am willing to donate $500. I also believe that there are at least a million more worldwide (extreme minimum) who would also be willing to donate....that adds up to some serious money.

Wanted
for
WAR CRIMES


A $500 Million Dollar Reward will be paid to any individual, organization, or country that provides concrete information leading to the arrest, or the issuance of an Internal Arrest Warrant for War Crimes committed by George Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, or Donald Rumsfeld.

It is clear that the Opposition Party (Democratic Party) and the US Justice Department will do NOTHING to hold the criminals accountable.
A private organization representing Citizens of the World would have better results.
After observing the response to Michele Bachmann's appearance on MSNBC, I have no doubt that such a fund would be a HUGE success.

Even if Bush/Cheney are never arrested, a Mega-Million Dollar International Bounty would certainly keep them looking over their shoulders, curtail retirement travel plans, AND serve as a warning to future "Unitary Executives".

It would also put a nice ribbon around the Bush Legacy.

[lunatica]

11. I like the way you think

:fistbump:

[PeaceNikki]

9. An injection of reality, courtesy of an intelligent friend:

"The Hague" is a city, not the court itself, and that the ICC (the court people mean when they say "The Hague" in this context) is not a court of general, original jurisdiction.

A crime has to be brought to the attention of the ICC prosecutor, who then investigates if cause to do so is found, then prosecutes if cause to do that is found.

Importantly, the U.S. is *not* a member state of the ICC. (Clinton signed the treaty, the Senate never ratified it, and W unsigned it.) Neither is Iraq. That means the ICC only has jurisdiction over U.S. citizens or over things that happen in Iraq or to Iraqi nationals if the U.N. Security Council refers the case. Guess who has veto power in the Security Council? (And I can't imagine a Barack Obama U.N. delegation actually pushing to refer the Bush administration.) If Obama and the Senate finally sign on to the ICC, I believe (though I'm not positive) that the ICC is like most Western courts and can't do things retroactively (and even if they can, I don't think Obama would sign unless he got assurance that it wouldn't, because Obama's a diplomat).

Also, the ICC only has jurisdiction over crimes against humanity, war crimes, and genocide. The terms are defined here: http://untreaty.un.org/cod/icc/statute/romefra.htm

There probably have been war crimes. There are war crimes in every war. It's important to note that the ICC isn't a court of mandatory jurisdiction, either--the court can turn down cases. The docket is several hundred cases long; prosecution could take years. If you were a court with limited resources, would you choose to prosecute an administration that unlawfully jailed a few hundred people without access to courts and maybe tortured a few, or would you prosecute someone who oversaw the rape, torture, mutilation, and murder of children? In fact, the prosecutor can decline to prosecute a case that falls directly under its jurisdiction if "a prosecution is not in the interests of justice, taking into account all the circumstances, including the gravity of the crime, the interests of victims and the age or infirmity of the alleged perpetrator, and his or her role in the alleged crime." (Rome Statutes Article 53(2)(c)). I'm sure there are some at the ICC who would *love* to see Bush, et al., hang (note: there is no capital punishment in the Netherlands). But it's not going to happen. Bigger fish, and all that. To assume otherwise gives Bush much more power than he actually has, and much more credit than he deserves.

[Richardo]

12. I'm sorry but you and your friend's reality is harshing our rage-buzz

Now we've let fly all that foamy spittle for nothing :(

[tom_paine]

15. Informative post. Thanks. n/t

[tom_paine]

10. They get him after WE are done with him. He needs to be tried here first.

Don't get me wrong. If Obama and the Dems fail to investigate and indict, THEN the International Community should step in.

But not before. This alleged serial felon and possible High Treasonist needs to be tried here FIRST.

[lunatica]

13. Why should they wait for us to be first?

Parts of the world have been screwed far worse by these people than we have. Their crimes are just as bad and even worse elsewhere. I'm thinking of the millions of dead civilians in Iraq for starters.

[tom_paine]

14. For one, I think is is a nation's soverign right to try it's own criminals before anyone else

Unless in the case of the Nazis or Pol Pot or the Soviet Leadership (who probably should have been tried for crimes against humanity after the Berlin Wall fell, though I understand why they were not I disagree) wheree the nation itself was taken over by criminality.

Which the USA almost was, but we took it back...for now.

Because of that, it is our soverign right to try Cheney and the rest ourselves, THEN turn him over to the Int'l Court for further trial.

I do see you point about relative hurts here, but it's an issue of sovereignty, IMHO.

You might disagree, in which case we will just agree to disagree.

Peace.

:hi:

[lunatica]

19. I see your point

My fear is that we either won't do anything because Bush will pardon himself and others, or because he will use the executive privilege argument and that the only way to hold them accountable will be to make a Constitutional Amendment which will never affect them. Like closing the barn door after the horse runs off.

The world having to wait seems somehow dishonest and even criminal to me.

[DearAbby]

17. For our own credibility

as a nation of laws. We need to prosecute all those responsible. The rest of the world will have their turn (hopefully)

[lunatica]

20. I would like to see us be first too

And for the exact reason you mention. And hopefully we will do it and then give the world a turn.

[JohnyCanuck]

16. K&R n/t

[southerncrone]

22. Yes, a trip to the Hague is indeed in order for this slime.