Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bob Kerrey, Democrat, says Obama faces threat from liberals.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:20 PM
Original message
Bob Kerrey, Democrat, says Obama faces threat from liberals.
Edited on Sat Nov-15-08 04:24 PM by madfloridian
One can always count on Bob Kerrey to keep us liberals and "partisans" in line. Me, I am both...did I tell you? I am becoming more so by the moment as the right wing Democrats trot out their usual warnings.

How Obama can walk the post-partisan talk

There's that word again. How many of you realize that post partisan means one-party rule? It does. If that occurs all we fought for the last 8 years is for nothing.

My worry is not with increased threats from abroad. I am convinced those threats will be reduced with Obama's election and the beginning of a much more sensible and trustworthy American foreign policy.

By my lights, the primary threat to the success of a President Obama will come from some Democrats who, emboldened by the size of their congressional majority, may try to kill trade agreements, raise taxes in ways that will destroy jobs, repeal the Patriot Act and spend and regulate to high heaven.

This is where Obama's persona is invaluable. He can withstand the arguments and pressure of the liberal wing in the Democratic caucus if, once elected, he is guided by the best instincts he has displayed on the campaign trail.

I believe this is likely because Obama will surround himself with professionals, not ideologues or acolytes. An unprecedented number of patriotic, politically savvy and centrist men and women have been part of his campaign team - and are therefore likely to make up President Obama's governing team.


You really need to read all of Centrist Bob Kerrey's advice to Obama.

They are really on tear now, those centrists are. They are hitting the news cycles fast and furious to keep partisans in their place outside of the party proper and leadership. Pow, bang, one after the other.

Al From of the DLC just reminded President Elect Obama that we are now in a "Post Partisan" era.

That promise is to change Washington, govern bigger than his party and forge a post-partisan political era. He pledged to tackle the country’s most pressing economic, domestic and security challenges by delivering a new kind of politics.

With the superpartisan Bush White House finally history and swelled majorities in both Houses, Democratic constituencies will have plenty of pent-up demands, and some Democrats in Congress may be tempted to engage in political payback.

I can sympathize with those desires, but Obama needs to resist them, for the success of his presidency — and, ultimately, his success in building a lasting political majority — will depend not on whether he satisfies the insiders in Washington but on whether he improves the lives of ordinary Americans who put their trust in him.


There also came the hit pieces on Howard Dean, that he could not be in the Obama administration because he spent his Washington career trying to thin the ranks of congressional Republicans that the Obama White House will need to court during the expected debate on health care reform

In other words, in more simple words, he won. But that made him too partisan to appeal to Republicans, while super-partisan Rahm Emanuel is right next to the new Commander in Chief.

Funny how that works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EconomicLiberal Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shut the fuck up, Kerrey!
Nobody cares what you think.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ha I felt like saying that. Glad you did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I need to take a bath now.
The corruption is overwhelming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dear Bob:
So sorry about the leg, but you have become tedious and your opinion is worthless. Please, suck my ass and then go fuck yourself.

Fondly,

-T.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. We really need to oust more of these corporate whores next election
Maybe they can be recruited into the GOP, where they seem a better fit?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
87. If you want to change Congress, you've *got* to change Congressmen... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. The President elect is handling them just fine. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
94. I think he will do ok as well
However, your icon leads me to doubt you. No, I'm not calling you out, DLC is (unfortunately) part of our big tent. It's a part I hope to see marginalized. Massively. They can be our water carriers, I suppose, if they are seen and not heard. And right now, we are just hearing way too much from these milquetoast Dems. I hope they run out of post partisan hot air soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Shut the fuck up, bob kerrey..we'll be
fine without your predictable input.

Didn't bob kerrey have to apologize to Obama during the primaries or was that some other dice and slicer?

It was Kerrey for one.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/kerrey-apologizes-to-obama/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I remember that.
Yuck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. bob kerry is not a democrat
at least in my sense of the definition. He may as well represent AIPAC. Perhaps he does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bob Kerrey, asshole, is irrelevant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kerrey, I had forgotten...said Iraq was central to the war on Islamic radicalism.
His judgement is lacking quite often.

Bob Kerrey said Iraq is "central to the fight against Islamic radicalism."

Let me restate the case for this Iraq war from the U.S. point of view. The U.S. led an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein because Iraq was rightly seen as a threat following Sept. 11, 2001. For two decades we had suffered attacks by radical Islamic groups but were lulled into a false sense of complacency because all previous attacks were "over there." It was our nation and our people who had been identified by Osama bin Laden as the "head of the snake." But suddenly Middle Eastern radicals had demonstrated extraordinary capacity to reach our shores.


Yep, I am becoming more partisan every second.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Leave it to people like Bob Kerry to twist reality
Clinton turned his backs on progressives during his first term- and guess what happened?

Think about 1994. Pundits credited major Republican victories to angry white men, Hillary's failed healthcare plan, and Newt Gingrich's "Contract with America." But the defeat was equally rooted in a massive withdrawal of volunteer support among Democratic activists who felt politically betrayed. Nothing fostered this sense more than Bill Clinton's going to the mat to push the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Angered by a sense that he was subordinating all other priorities to corporate profits, and by his cavalier attitude toward the hollowing out of America's industrial base, labor, environmental and social-justice activists nationwide withdrew their energy from Democratic campaigns. This helped swing the election, much as the continued extension of these policies (particularly around dropping trade barriers with China) led just enough Democratic leaning voters in 2000 to help elect George Bush by staying home or voting for Ralph Nader.

No place saw a more dramatic political shift than my home state of Washington. In November 1992, Democratic activists volunteered by the thousands, hoping to end the Reagan-Bush era. On Election Day, I joined five other volunteers to help get out the vote in a swing district 20 miles south of Seattle. Volunteers had a similar presence in every major Democratic or competitive district in the state. The effort helped Clinton to carry the state and Democrats to capture eight out of nine House seats.

But by 1994 grass-roots Democratic campaigners mostly stayed home, disgruntled. In Washington State, there were barely enough people to distribute literature and make phone calls in Seattle's most liberal neighborhoods, let alone in swing suburban districts. Republicans won seven of our nine congressional races, and reelected a Senator known for baiting environmentalists.

The same was true nationwide....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/hillary-and-the-politics-_b_73957.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That is why it bothered me to be attacked so viciously
when I pointed out what was happening to Dean. It shows a tendency that liberals will stop fighting and saying we must be unquestioningly loyal.

Dean was/is no liberal, but he's our fighter. DU is NOT fighting for his rights now. Whether he wants a certain job or not is not the point.

He should not be shoved aside in the interest of the "post-partisan" crowd.

If we let it happen without speaking up more shame to us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Did you live in Florida in 2000?
You've written a lot about Howard Dean as if he were the only person to ever do anything for the Democratic Party.

But, do you remember 2000? Bob Kerrey was one of the few Democrats to come to Florida and stand up to the Bush machine during the recount. He was on national TV quite a few times, along with Max Cleland, standing up for the Democratic vote in Florida.

After that election was over, both Kerrey and Cleland were targeted by the Bush administration. We all remember what happened to Cleland. Someone dug up the one person in Kerrey's Vietnam outfit who would charge that civilians were killed by Kerrey and those serving under him. I'd say that pretty much destroyed any political possibilities for him in the future.

I don't always agree with Bob Kerrey. In fact, I mostly don't agree with the things he's said recently. But, I still respect the fact that he was one of the very few that came to my state and stood up for the vote counting. I didn't see many other liberal Democrats doing that.

That earned Kerrey a right to say whatever and to be listened to respectfully. None of us has to agree with him--but I believe that Floridians at least should respect him at least as much as Howard Dean.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. No, Bob Kerrey does not have a right to make liberals sound dangerous.
I write a lot about Dean because he is the one who got us really interested in politics in 2003. We stayed active. Now, not so much.

Bob Kerrey has no right to call Iraq part of the battle on Islamic radicals, no right to say Obama will be hurt by liberals.

I resent it greatly.

So should you. If leaders want my respect they have to earn by speaking up for the right things...not making the left sound dangerous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
51. They're trying to marginalize anyone who is a threat to the status quo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Oh, BTW... I don't insult you.
I would appreciate your not doing it to me.

I will write about whomever I choose, but will not insult others.

Bob Kerrey is wrong for saying that. He should be called out.

Al From is wrong for saying what he did....post partisan means one party, no checks and balances.

Yes, you insulted me by trying to diss me for writing about Dean. And yes, I do remember the hell of 2000 well.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Interesting point, Suzie. I didn't know that Bob Kerrey and Max Cleland came to Florida
Edited on Sat Nov-15-08 10:52 PM by bertman
to help the Dems during the 2000 recount. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think Kerrey is a pimple on the butt of the Democratic party and one of those so-called Democrats who has forgotten that the Democratic party is the PROGRESSIVE party in the United States of America. Apparently he has become so enamored of the corporatist agenda that he has completely bailed on being a Democrat and has become a closet Republican.

P.S. I saw nothing insulting in your comments, so please carry on. This website is supposed to be about open discussion of Democratic party issues and you certainly contributed to that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Kerrey came to support Gore about the absentee military ballots.
Edited on Sat Nov-15-08 11:42 PM by suzie
He was recruited because he was also a 'war hero' and an amputee. Seems pretty obvious that the very ugly stuff that came up later was a direct result of his taking on the Bush group.

Kerrey is a Democrat who was elected both as Senator and Governor in Nebraska--pretty conservative territory. He was probably always a conservative Democrat.

But, in the genuine constitutional crisis that was Election 2000, Kerrey stood up for Democrats. Lots of liberals in safe seats and liberals who weren't up for election stayed away.

After standing up for the Dem side, Kerrey then underwent the real ugliness of talking about events that happened in the middle of a war 25 years ago.

He may not be a guy whom I agree with much, but I owe him my respect for coming to my state and trying to help us all out.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/21/overseas.ballots/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Minor point, the Vietnam war ended 33 years ago. I was there in '68-'69.
Thanks for the link. I had forgotten that Bob Kerrey won the Medal of Honor.

That doesn't affect my opinion of his actions as a corporate Dem.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #47
58. Thanks for your service.
I was actually counting back from 2000, but didn't make that clear.

My basic feeling is that we'd all be better off if Gore had prevailed in 2000, corporatist Dems or not. I appreciate Kerrey for working toward that end.

The vehemence of the reactions of some others--not yourself--surprised me. Corporatist or not, Kerrey is simply one more out-of-power former politician. As such, his opinion doesn't bother me much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. It's the cumulative effect that bothers me. Plus, the media tends to highlight the folks like
Kerrey who are trying to push Obama to the center-right anyway, rather than focusing on the left of center issues that won Obama the Presidency. They want everyone to think that the Progressive wing of the party died in 1968.

I'm proud to have served. Although, when I returned to the States in '69 I was not proud of what our country, and I, had been doing in Vietnam. That's why I'm so strongly opposed to these wars we are in now. But that's another thread.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
52. You know full well that Dean is not qualified for the HHS job
yet you continue to whine and complain that he's being targeted and excluded because he's a partisan. You know full well that Obama wants someone with congressional experience, that Dean does not have congressional experience but you have not once even vaguely acknowledged it. It's Obama's full right to require whatever experience he wants in a job description and you also know that.

Your spin is starting to drift into the bizarro world of Republicans. You're that good at obfuscating the truth. If you're going to complain, at least complain honestly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #52
96. How exactly is Dr. Dean not qualified?
He's a physician and he's been an executive. Those are both very useful qualities for the job at hand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
62. True .. support should be withdrawn...but the fight has to continue ....
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 11:40 AM by defendandprotect
And we may face this again with Obama --

They need to impoverish us all faster cause they can see a LOT of public

money went to Obama --

And it can disappear if the wrong things happen -

Rahm Emmanuel has been making sure that we have no one worthy of

support by progressives/liberals.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
85. I Am With You on This
I have also watched it and must say, I am not surprised. Many of those same folks would also let Bush and Cheney off the hook. After all... trying to hold Bush and Cheney accountable, may look too partisan. :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
95. There is a tendency towards that
Most of us will get over it after the third or fourth time we are shut out. It is unwise to shut us out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. We don't need to appeal to Republicans. There are more of us.
We do need to appeal to independents who keep getting fooled by Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. There are more of us, but....
when forum after forum of Liberal Democrats attack those who say hey this needs to be watched...like shunning the leader who fought for us for 4 years.

Like telling each other to be so loyal as not to speak out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah, Bob! The righties are Obama's best friends!
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. Amazing what one finds on a google news search of "post partisan". More lectures
It's a veritable campaign, my friends. They are out in force, those "centrists."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/33925339.html

No name, but a little different from Kerrey and From.

"The truth is, theymust continue to pursue them. On issue after issue — energy, entitlement programs, illegal immigration, healthcare reform — partisan gamesmanship and grandstanding have trumped honest efforts to find solutions. When ideologues stress party loyalty over national interests, problems intensify; for proof, look no further than the financial meltdown, where officials pointed fingers as the crisis worsened.

President-elect Obama has inspired millions with his history-making march to the White House. But history has also dealt him a sobering deck of cards, handing him enormous problems that would challenge any president, including the economic crisis and the war on terror. The new president will help his cause greatly if he makes good on his vow to serveall the people. He can start by picking the best individuals for his Cabinet, regardless of their party affiliation; neither party has a monopoly on qualified candidates.

He must also rein in the worst tendencies of his own party. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Harry Reid have contributed to the toxic atmosphere in Washington, thriving on the very animosity they decried for years. That petulant attitude has to end".


Petulant?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeJG Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bob Kerrey oversaw the accountability for
the fall of the Commonwealth....another bank that fell while he was the governor. He appointed the committee that would do the oversite, they exonorated each other, and moved on.

A few of Kerrey's men moved on to the Franklin Credit Union, (google that one!), in Omaha, NE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks, I did not realize that about him.
I will do some googling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is why 2 parties are not enough. Liberals need a home where they are actually welcome
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I have an idea....which would never work but would be good.
Combine PDA and DFA, rename it, and form a new group to keep our voices strong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. We have to do something to keep ourselves from being marginalized. That's why I
support proportional representation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
54. Or instant runoff voting
which would have a similar effect. It would encourage the development of multiple political parties all of which would stand a decent chance of substantially influencing the elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. Nader & Greens work for passage of these issues -- Dems don't ...!!!
You can support those efforts while still voting for Dems ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. IRV still has "spoiler" issues, though. It's not a panacea to that particular problem, unfortunately
That's why I prefer proportional representation, because you are guaranteed to have representation of qualified parties in congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
64. It's leadership that's marginalizing progressives -- Emmanuel + DLC ...
Clinton is DLC leadership --!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Both organizations work together at the state level right now
In Washington, DFW does meetup sized action groups and PDA organizes by congressional district.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Good idea.
One of our DFA members is planning to try for Dem chair in our area. We did get some folks in before, but the power structure was too great here.

In fact when we defended Dean during the primaries we were pretty much shunned. It's a strange area...will take years to make a difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Our state has an officially recognized Progressive Caucus
Our chair is in both DFW and PDA, and is running for chair of his legislative district organization. If he wins, our state PDA organizer will take over as Progressive Caucus chair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
66. What's DFA .. and DFW ...???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. DFA was formed from the Dean campaign in 2004.
It helps to get more local Democrats elected. DFW must be the WA state part of DFA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
63. Let me know when you're ready to move -- we've been waiting --!!!
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 11:45 AM by defendandprotect
Many of us have long been waiting to move ...

but we have to move in a block --

DU'ers have to understand the battle is for small "d" democracy and not a

"Democratic Party" ...unless it upholds the ideals of democracy.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Gotta love it.
Democrats attacking Democrats with Republican talking points. :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. This "post-partisan" shit is coming directly from the traitorous ass of Al From and the DLC
And fuck anyone who repeats their talking points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. Bob Kerrey, he of the bullshit 9/11 Commission? Oh shit, another self-
serving opportunist dragging himself back into the national conscience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. Well, he does face a threat from liberals, but you still need to fuck yourself, Bob.
As if all your nonsense wasn't bad enough in the 90s, now you're reaching out from the political graveyard to resume shitstirring.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. Just great
So when the Republicans are in power we are supposed to do things the 'conservative' way because that's way the Republicans like it. Oh, but wait, we're saved because now the Democrats are in charge, but uh-oh wait a second no we still have to do things the 'conservative' way because that's what the conservative Democrats like. Screw that!!! At some point in this country the progressive side of the political spectrum must get their chance to lead in the way they see fit. The neo-con/reactionary side has definitely had their chance and from the looks of it they really suck. Don't get me wrong I believe in checks and balances but that doesn't mean we always have to do it one way it means when one side, in this case the progressive side, gets into office the other side is there to make sure those in power don't over step. That does not mean the 'loyal opposition' should be totally obstructionist or progandize to make everybody think that their way didn't lose and everything should basically stay the same but just be there to temper what is done. People have to realize that the conservative philosophy is based on the fact that they like things the way they are or in some cases the way they were in some fictional past a la 'Leave It To Beaver' time so if nothing happens they are still pretty happy. So their focus is to stop 'progress' if they can't lead they will attempt to block the progressive movement or try to convince progressives that it is against their political benefit to try to implement what progressives see as the right way to do things. Will the progressives be able to convince President Obama to do everything they want? Probably not, but they should go for it anyway. Should they try to tear down the Obama administration because they aren't getting their way? No that's just shooting yourself in the foot. If the progressive programs work it puts the movement in great shape for the future. If they don't work the way expected we regroup, take a look at what went wrong and come up with some new solutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. kr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. To these jokers, "bipartisanship" means turning into Republicans
We need to repudiate the Republican Lite wing of the Democratic party and start undoing the damage done during the era that started with Reagan.

What's the use of winning elections to keep the Patriot Act, to keep ruinous trade agreements, and to keep low taxes for the rich?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our fourth quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. k&r madprops to madfloridian! As usual. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Well, we can't let our own party talk about us like that.
Thanks for the k&r.

We can not let them put us down anymore.

Right? :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. I'm with you!
And NOW is the time for us to press. The right wing of the Party is doing two things right now:

1. They are pressing as hard as they can to co-opt Obama - both behind the scenes and in the public sphere. They are trying to define his Presidency before it even begins. They have pulled out all the stops.

2. They are pressing the left to step aside and do nothing. They are using the same old tired language about post-partisanship and bi-partisanship and non-partisanship to encourage those who expect real change to do nothing - to "wait." They are, as usual, grossly hypocritical in their rhetoric and shameless in their audacity. They claim they want the left to give Obama a "honeymoon," but really they want to wreck the marriage and screw the bride.

Now is the time for us to define this new era. We must call them out, and we must press our own agenda. I'm with you as always MF! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #45
68. We need to be heard thru mail and e-mail and call-ins ...
Where do we send mail or e-mail to Obama ---???

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Thanks for the link.
I just have a funny feeling we won't be heard.

Worth a try, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonteLukast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
39. A cool persona doth not bipartisan make.
Bob, you're making the mistake of thinking that all calm and reasonable people are easily persuaded and tractable. That's okay; a lot of people do that.
It happens all the time: you find someone who actually listens to you, unlike all the others. It's so wonderful, you've got understanding, you've got an agreement. And then... your good listener says, "No, thanks."

:wow:

"Thanks for your opinion, but I'll do it a different way."

:yoiks:

Horrors!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
40. now who's....
....a little prejudiced against the non-existent base?....could it be bobbie?

"...congressional majority, may try to kill trade agreements, raise taxes in ways that will destroy jobs, repeal the Patriot Act and spend and regulate to high heaven."

....sounds to me, like a list of high and noble things to do....

....c'mon bobbie, did rove give you these talking points?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. That's good news to me -- and we should make sure that pressure stays on --!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. I really don't care for right-wing Democrats.
Edited on Sat Nov-15-08 11:22 PM by Blue_In_AK
I guess we need them, but we don't have to like them. Just once before I die I would like to have a truly Progressive government, but it probably won't happen. A pity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. I hate to say it, but I think you are right. The right wing Dems have the power.
They really do. They are not a threat to corporate interests so the media embraces them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. post-partisan
Periodically over the years we hear the calls for "post-partisan" politics, for "transcending partisanship" and the like. Historically, that has always meant silencing any and all voices for the people. The wealthy and powerful people do not need to scream and agitate and cause a ruckus. They have everything they need to "kill us off by peaceful means," as the saying goes, and to prevail if "peace" and the status quo are preserved.

Calls to "transcend partisanship" are covert calls for one side on the political battle - the poor, the working people, the left behind, persecuted, exploited and abused - to surrender; to shut up and stop disturbing the decorum and upsetting the more fortunate people.

All of us should be very suspicious whenever we hear this sort of talk. It is not about peace, it is about surrender. It is not about "getting things done" it is about WHAT things we are getting done and who will benefit by those things. As Kucinich said to Kashkari, "I have no doubt that you are working hard. My question is, for whom are you working?"

The wealthy and powerful few are not about to call a truce or heed any calls for post-partisanship, to cease advancing their agenda at the expense of the rest of us.

The right wing would love to be rid of partisanship. In fact, they have no use or need for politics of any kind or even for government. In the absence of partisanship, politics and government, the wealthy and powerful can rule over us and exploit us without having to bother with any of that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. Exactly! How interesting that after the deepest, broadest, widest rejection of R policies
that I can remember, we have these "Democrats" calling for "Bi-Partisanship" and the very Republican policies that the voters rejected. In this election the Republicans held on to very few other than racists, religious nuts. and no doubt the upper 1% and we are supposed to be "bi-partisan" with THEIR agenda?

Oh, and where was all this "bi-partisanship" when the Rs had the majority?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
81. Good question 'where was all this "bi-partisanship" when the Rs
had the majority?'

Here's where it was as articulated by Grover Norquist after the 2004 election:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/09/AR2005050901013.html

Grover Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform and a leading figure in both the DeLay and Bush political operations, chose more colorful post-election language to describe the future. "Once the minority of House and Senate are comfortable in their minority status, they will have no problem socializing with the Republicans," he told Richard Leiby of The Post. "Any farmer will tell you that certain animals run around and are unpleasant. But when they've been 'fixed,' then they are happy and sedate. They are contented and cheerful."

He laid it out. 'Neuter Democrats, 'fix them like farm animals and render them totally ineffective'. He told them to 'Get used to your minority status and you'll be a lot happier'.

No false pretenses of 'bi-partisanship' from the Repubs. They had the power and they had no intention of sharing it. NOW, they are screaming for bi-partisanship, with sycophants like Bob Kerrey et al joining their chorus.

Is there a list of Republicans from back then, doing what the pretend progressive Dems like Kerrey are doing now? I don't think so, they would have tossed from the party if they had dared.

We didn't fight to win power in order to hand it over to those who wrecked this country over the past eight years. I thought the idea was to 'change' the course they took this country on.

Makes you wonder, 'whose side are these people on?'

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
48. KandR



peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
50. Bob Kerry, Republican.
What the hell got into him? He's certainly on the wrong side of history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. "Democratic constituencies will have plenty of pent-up demands"
Yes Bob, for silly things like economic and social justice, a return of our civil liberties, and ending corporate corruption and the laissez faire economics that have ripped a hole out of our economy and destroyed the middle class and any hope of creating a better life for oneself and their family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #55
69. Bravo --!! Recommend your comments ---!!!
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
56. Repeal the PATRIOT act! Oh noes!
You s'pose Kerrey even knows what's in it? Or cares?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. You bet he does - he's PERSONALLY invested up to his eyeballs in the Military Industrial Complex.
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. Well, that sucks. Thanks for the info.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
57. how are they figured to be 'centrists'
there is absolutely nothing centrist about the DLC/AIPAC agenda. It is the hawkish right-wing, may as well be a repuke part of the Democratic party that I had hoped Obama would marginalize instead of embrace.

so much for hope. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
59. Bob! STFU!
"The Democrats have not won a mandate for all their policies. Rather, the American people have resoundingly registered their frustration with a failed status quo, and the next President must chart a new, less partisan course."
Bob, I don't think the people feel that partisanship is the true status quo, I think it's the culture of corruption and greed. To cure it will require some degree of partisan ship.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
60. what does "partisan" even mean?
"I really never saw myself as partisan but more as an advocate for a set of ideas: economic and social justice, America as a positive influence around the world, truth, transparency, and integrity in government, the right of every American to have a job, a living wage, to be educated in a decent school, and to a life filled with the dignity of work, promise and the sanctity of home. These are the things that make a life. These are the things that build and define a society...."

Bruce Springsteen

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
67. "Centrist" = corporatist = representing corporate interests = NOT representing people's interests!
It's high time that we expose the "Centrists" for the corporate one party rule bastards they've been for so long, and tell them to fall in line to represent the PEOPLE or GTF OUT of the people's party!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
70. Nevermind...
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 12:09 PM by TankLV
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
72. Gee Bob, a I just hate it when someone new rocks the boat with new ideas.
Things have been gong so well the past few years. And, I'm convinced the Dems are going to want payback. I mean, like there's nothing else to do with their time now that the country is FALLING APART. The country will be so-o-o upset if someone in Washington is rude or, gasp, there is evidence of the human brain being involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. Bob Kerrey is a "Zell Miller" democrat. He really should change parties and make it legal too.
:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
79. DON'T FORGET WHAT KERREY DID TO OBAMA!!!
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 03:41 PM by TwoSparkles
I don't know if everyone remembers this, but it is definitely worth noting.

During the Democratic primary, Iowa began heating up when Obama starting moving
up in the polls. Edwards, Clinton and Obama were virtually neck and neck.

Hillary began panicking and "Obama was raised in a madrassa" emails were
circulated from her campaign, and an Iowa field director was fired. Hillary
also planted questions at Iowa events and all sorts of other malarkey started
happening. I'll spare the multitude of gory details.

One of the things that happened, was Bob Kerrey's kicking off Hillary's five-day
tour of Iowa with an endorsement that began, "I can't wait for Hillary to run
against Barack Hussein Obama!" Kerrey endorsed Hillary and said this:

"It's probably not something that appeals to him, but I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama, and that his father was a Muslim and that his paternal grandmother is a Muslim. There's a billion people on the planet that are Muslims and I think that experience is a big deal." He added, "He's got a whale of a lot more intellectual talent than I've got as well."

So yeah. He was part of the smear-machine to convince America that
Obama was a Muslim. I especiall love the compliment thrown in there,
to add a nice smile to the hit job.

Kerrey is slime. DLC slime. He later apologized for his remarks. But he's still slime.

Link to article about Kerrey's remarks: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/16/kerrey_for_clinton.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
80. Send Bob Kerrey the article you posted.
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 04:06 PM by BrklynLiberal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
83. The Milton Friedman Democrats strike again!
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 07:26 PM by Karl_Bonner_1982
By my lights, the primary threat to the effectiveness of President Obama's administration will come from some "centrist" Democrats who, in a superficial ploy to come across as non-partisan, may compromise too far with the same right-wing agenda that voters rejected this year. They may try to kill key legislation in tax, regulatory, social spending, and labor-rights policies that would, if fully implemented, advance the interests of working- and middle-class Americans instead of the interests of concentrated private wealth. These same centrists may also lobby to keep many of Bush's domestic surveillance programs in the Patriot Act, including telecom immunity, as well as perhaps even the continued operation of Guantanamo or a similar program with only the slightest of reforms.

This is where grassroots mobilization is invaluable. A tenacious movement led directly from America's neighborhoods and communities can openly confront the cautious and overcompromising attitudes of the conservative-leaning "centrist" wing in the Democratic caucus provided that, once Obama is inaugurated, these bottom-up voices become America's loudspeaker for serious and detailed change.

I believe the likelihood of this happening depends on the American people themselves - especially the energetic young voters. Young voters made up a large chunk of Obama's grassroots organizing team for the campaign, and they should continue at the same level of effort through the next year if they want to prove to the country that real progress can be affected from below.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. I posted my reply in the comments section of the NY Daily News for this article. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
84. Kerry is an Ideological Dangerous Type
His have taken an active role in morphing the Democratic Party into nothing but yes men and women of the wealthy corporate class, and especially a cash cow for the military industrial complex. His views are very aligned to other neocons who lied us into Iraq causing the death of a million human beings while destroying our image around the World making us less safe. His grand scheme also helped bankrupt our country that he claims to love so much. He is extremely dangerous and an Ideological Fanatic...

His statements and support for policies in the last 8 years prove it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
88. I love what Paul Krugman had to say about non-partisanism
The central fact of modern American political life is the control of the Republican Party by movement conservatives, whose vision of what America should be is completely antithetical to that of the progressive movement. Because of that control, the notion, beloved by political pundits, that we can make progress through bipartisan consensus is simply foolish. On health care reform, which is the first domestic priority for progressives, there’s no way to achieve a bipartisan compromise between Republicans who want to strangle Medicare and Democrats who want guaranteed health insurance for all. When a health care reform plan is actually presented to Congress, the leaders of movement conservatism will do what they did in 1993 – urge Republicans to oppose the plan in any form, lest successful health reform undermine the movement conservative agenda…

To be a progressive, then, means being partisan – at least for now. The only way a progressive agenda can be enacted is if Democrats have both the presidency and a large enough majority in Congress to overcome Republican opposition. And achieving that kind of political preponderance will require leadership that makes opponents of the progressive agenda pay a political price for their obstructionism – leadership that, like FDR, welcomes the hatred of the interest groups trying to prevent us from making our society better.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Good statements by Krugman.
"To be a progressive, then, means being partisan – at least for now."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
90. "repeal the Patriot Act "? He speaks as if this would be a bad thing.
REPEAL the Patriot Act.

For America's sake, PLEASE DO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
91. I volunteered for Kerrey
when he ran for governor of Nebraska in 1982. Aside from dating Debra (sp) Winger, his accomplishments escape me ... no joke.

This former Nebraskan is deeply embarrassed by that former Nebraskan.

Barack has done just fine without your advice, Bob.

Now go back to the Actors Studio and stfu.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liskddksil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
92. And here comes the DLC Peanut Gallery
telling Obama how to do his job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. Just about true.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC