So, it looks like the Iraqis have 'agreed' to let the occupation continue for 3 years. Tough shit.

[bigtree]

THE entire effort to get the Iraqis to agree with the Bush White House on the future of the occupation of their country by U.S. forces is a cynical one in which Bush intends to commit the next administration to continuing his Iraq folly.

Although it's certainly notable that the Iraqi regime is coming around to the idea that there will need to be an end point to the U.S. protection of their propped-up, autocratic rule, barring some immediate rejection of the presence of forces, the decision of where our troops are going to be deployed and for how long is a decision I expect President Obama to at least attempt to find some sort of consensus for from Congress.

While it's true that, as president, Obama can use the same assumed authority that Bush has used to commit, inflate and indefinitely commit our forces to Iraq to effect a reduction of force and withdrawal, it's really not in our country's long-term interest to encourage the unilateral exercise of that assumed power made without input from our Senators and Representatives.

That said, I believe he should immediately draw down the forces there as soon as he is able. I'm just not sure if that's his plan.

If Bush asks the lame-duck Congress to ratify or codify some Iraq agreement that may emerge before the end of his term, our Democrats should reject it, even though it may well contain language about a withdrawal. They're really not likely to approve any such agreement in any substantive manner anyway, and they shouldn't encourage or participate in any major direction change by this WH in Iraq which is short of an immediate withdrawal.

In my view, President-Elect Obama should consider an even faster exit from Iraq than the Bush administration may be pushing for. Any move by our party to take the Bush bait of embracing a lame-duck agreement with the intransigent, embattled Iraqi autocrats would preclude the initiative of the new administration in the setting of their own, decidedly less supportive agenda toward the occupation and the defense of the regime there.

If we're ready to end this thing, following the lead of the lame-duck losers who've kept our troops bound to Iraq against the demonstrated will of the majority of the American (and Iraqi) public isn't the way to proceed.

[rocktivity]

1. President Obama can undo it

And President Georgie can't weasel out of needing 2/3 of the Senate to approve a treaty by claiming that it's NOT a treaty!

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

6. I hope they just ignore Bush on this

. . . but do I expect him to come before them with some sort of legacy feathering proposal (coercion) to adopt the language of any agreement that may emerge.

[davidswanson]

2. senator obama

can insist on senate's right to reject a treaty -- which is in any case unlikely to pass the Iraqi Parliament which does insist on its rights to represent its people

[bigtree]

11. it's been a long time since I've heard Mr. Obama talk about Iraq

. . . I can't remember whether he took a position on this 'agreement' effort by Bush. Looks like he's waiting . . . to see what unfolds . . .?

here he is on 60 minutes:

Mr. Obama: . . . I’ve said during the campaign, and I’ve stuck to this commitment, that as soon as I take office, I will call in the Joint Chiefs of Staff, my national security apparatus, and we will start executing a plan that draws down our troops. Particularly in light of the problems that we’re having in Afghanistan, which has continued to worsen. We’ve got to shore up those efforts.

That's it, and that's the most he's said in a while.

[Lasher]

3. Out in 16 months.

Countdown starts in January.

[NeedleCast]

8. Sounds both doable and reasonable

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. After this agreement, I'd bet my bottom dollar that a 16 month timetable is a thing of the past. n/t

[Lasher]

12. I've got no dollars to bet after 8 years of the Bush 43 economy.

But I'm hoping Obama will come through on this, Brother.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. I'm with you on that. I'm about to uncover my bottom dollar soon.

But the skeptic in me says that campaign promises are just that. Campaign promises.

I was hoping, before the primaries started, that at least one candidate other than DK stood up and promised that the withdrawl would start in earnest on 1/20/09 at 12:01 p.m. He or she would surely have gotten my vote.

It was the single biggest issue for me.

[bigtree]

14. It's hard to say what President Obama will do

There are the promises, like you say, and there is his hedging on 'doing it right.'

I wouldn't be surprised to see a plodding withdrawal under him, nor would I be surprised to see him assert the same assumed authority Bush used to keep our troops there to effectively draw down the forces.

The issue then would be (without much complaint from me; only concern) the exercise of that assumed authority outside of Congress, codifying Bush's own assumption that he could conduct his occupation indefinitely outside of congressional will.

[stevenleser]

19. No it isnt.

He as much as said only two days ago that one of his first actions is to meet with the joint chiefs and national security apparatus and tell them to start withdrawing in as orderly a manner as possible.

[Billy Burnett]

4. Didn't Sadr promise another uprising from his armies if this goes through? eom

[bigtree]

5. It's hard to imagine that the enabled Iraqi regime is serious

. . . about ejecting their protection forces.

The decision about whether we continue to commit forces shouldn't be swayed by the back and forth between the resistance and the hapless regime. It should be expected that there will be forces in Iraq working to exploit any agreement, decision, or move to their advantage. The only prudent course in the middle of all of that is to remove the most pernicious aggravation of our imperialistic invasion forces. What occurs afterward is for the Iraqis to manage. It's likely that they'll get an abrupt notion of what it means to rule without the true support of the majority of their people.

[louis-t]

7. There are some conditions. I read this morning

that American forces can't conduct raids without Iraqi approval, no blanket immunity for US troops or contractors, etc.

[bigtree]

9. those are certainly worthy of support

. . . but, essentially meaningless to the administration who's 'negotiating' at present and made mostly moot by the blanket withdrawal promised during the campaign.

I'm going to be disappointed if the President-elect is considering using this as anything more than a template for his own more aggressive initiatives regarding Iraq, including the protections cited.

[Alamuti Lotus]

15. (not so Grand) Ayatallah Sistani flipped at the last minute

Predictable, the shut-in is more concerned about the evils of chess and masturbation than the occupation. The years of also doing absolutely nothing under Saddam prepared him well for this time. Sayyid Muqtada, however, has outlined potential consequences for the puppet regime in doing so. Truly Grand Ayatallah Mohammed Husayn Fadlallah (heavy influence over most factions of the ruling al-Da'wa party) has and will continue to oppose these foolish plans. The factions of the ruling gov't will be split and continue to be ineffective, relying more on the occupyers to sustain themselves in the face of the opposition to their bad decisions.

[stevenleser]

17. I have a feeling that the reason he and the Iraqi government 'caved'

is that they realized with an incoming new US administration that they would be renegotiating this in a few weeks anyway with someone who was already on the same page with them. In light of that, I wouldnt be too hard on Al-Sistani or any other folks over there just yet.

[Time for change]

16. If Obama doesn't adhere to his plan to withdraw from Iraq

my guess is that he will have a failed presidency. Just like LBJ's second term and Nixon's presidency. Not only will it be disastrous from a foreign policy standpoint, but it will mean that our national debt will continue to skyrocket and the economy will not recover.

That would be such a shame.

[spanone]

18. i guess * has all the authority he needs...no need to consult that silly body of congress

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Hey, It's Just A Damned Piece Of Paper

At least that's what Silverspoon says!
The Professor

[OwnedByFerrets]

21. There was a post yesterday that stated that Iraqi's are NOT

the ones who agreed to this fiasco agreement. They are monkeyboy's chosen ones.