No, health care reform should not allow you to keep your employer's plan, even if you like it

[eridani]

The reason it that by doing so you are denying other people health care. This happens when private insurers siphon off their profits and high administrative expenses. By consenting to this, you consent to the removal of money from the total health care money pool for unethical purposes. Spreading the risks of dealing with serious illness requires that healthy people pay for the care of sick people.

People don't want to stick with employer-based insurance because they are evil; the complexities of surviving in our current economy are a major hassle to deal with and they'd rather just not think about one more thing. Basic ignorance is involved as well. 5% of the population accounts for 50% of the expense, and 20% for about 80% of the expense. What this means is that most people are not going to get expensively sick, and for that reason they don't have and will very likely never have the slightest clue how good their insurance is, any more than they know how good their local fire department is. With any luck, they'll never find out.

The bottom line is that we can't afford Obama's plan or any other incremental reform, because they require an infusion of extra public money to prop up private insurance. That money would be far better spent on Obama's infrastructure and jobs plan, which does require such a cash infusion. In the case of health care, we just have to spend the money we are already spending directly on care--no new funds necessary.

Everybody in! Nobody out!

[CTyankee]

1. While I agree with you, surely you know that including private plans had to be part

of selling reform. Anecdotally, I can tell you that most people are not idealogues on health care as much as they are afraid if they give up what they have, they'll get worse. Plus they have heard all the phony "stories" about people in countries with socialized medicine not getting the medical care they need.

What the hope is, is that a kind of "Medicare for all" will prove so cost effective while still providing good care that private insurance will die on the vine. That's the hope anyway. And it can only happen with strong clout from our party. We simply have to outvote and outsmart the enemy here...

[eridani]

4. The public plan will be underfunded and crappy without access to the whole dollar pool

We already know about this shit--compare regular Medicare and Medicare Advantage. The latter has led to the defunding of the former and lousy reimbursement rates.

Instead of fighting back, you are recommending that we just give up. Obama's plan as it stands guarantees the crappiness of the public plan due to underfunding. We can't kill private insurance by subsidizing it.

[CTyankee]

8. That's where outvoting comes into play. You are right that if medicare for everybody

is underfunded people won't choose it. We now have the WH, House and Senate, and soon the Supreme Court. We can makeit happen. WE must make it happen. Eternal vigilance...that and outsmart the mfers.

If universal health care becomes as popular as Social Security and Medicare it will be hard for the RW to destroy it. Just look how miserably they failed with SS!

[eridani]

14. Exactly! Which is why we should all be pushing single payer hard

Obama's plan as is would be sort of a consolation prize if we failed.

[CTyankee]

16. Well, we have the best possible scenario for doing it "big", i.e. single payer.

We didn't have this dire a situation last year when Obama and others were formulating their health care plans as primary candidates. That is why I think they trod very softly on the "government run" health care side. No one except Paul Krugman was out there warning of the impending economic crash.

I just read somewhere that the opponents to Hillary's health care plan back in the 90s is not going to fight so hard this time. Hopefully, they see the handwriting on the wall: they will see that they have to insure everybody without barring pre-existing conditions. Given that, they know they can't make money any more on health care and must move on. They are not so much idealogues but capitalists. If they can't profit from a business, why do it any more?

[eridani]

18. We will probably not have a better chance anytime soon

We can still use insurance company employees for claims processing, which is the only value that they actually add. This could be done by farming out claims processing, or just hiring the relevant employees. In either case, outsourcing could be strictly forbidden.

[CTyankee]

20. You mean these employees would become government employees?

To handle the overflow to the new "medicare for everybody"?

[eridani]

23. Either that, or the government could hire the insurers to do the claims processing

Either way, no outsourcing allowed.

[lurky]

2. I'm sure most corps will drop or reduce benefits when we get universal hc.

They're dropping them anyway, and they aren't going to want to pay thousands of dollars a year for something you can get for free. Maybe they will still offer some kind of supplemental plans or something.

[eridani]

5. No problem with bells and whistles here

If unions or high-roller employees can get extra goodies not covered by the universal plan, fine. I don't care if Bill Gates has an expensive smoke alarm/sprinkler system that I can't afford. All I care about is that we get the same fire engines.

[snappyturtle]

6. Free? A new healthcare program will not be free. nt

[eridani]

13. But it will replace the vastly more expensive system we have now

It won't require new money if we can get ahold of what the private insurers are siphoning off.

[madokie]

3. There should be no insurance companies in health care

Do it like the VA except on a larger basis. I've been using the VA now for 6 almost 7 years and when I want to see the doctor I call and get an appointment, always within a day or three, go there and when I come home that day there is a 95% chance I will have the results of whatever with me. They'll say something like, you go down this hall take a right then go up the green elevator to the whatever floor then go to the left and its the second door and they will do whatever it is that needs to be done. In other words 95% or so of it is all done in house. No running half way across the state then wait a few days for that appointment and then wait a week or so for the results. Fuck that lets do it in house like the VA does. If you follow me that is :-)


Added: Companies

[snappyturtle]

7. Sounds good to me. I've been priced out of insurance.

This morning on Washington Journal a caller said that in NJ some doctors will not take insurance period anymore! The caller has insurance and is now shopping for a doctor who will take it. These same docs refusing private insurance are accepting Medicare. The reason given for refusing insurance was the paperwork and all the hoops to jump through. I found her story interesting.

[madokie]

9. My wife has insurance but it never pays for anything

they'll kinda' throw her a bone from time to time but its pretty much left up to her to pay.

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. And yet we just elected a President who campaigned opposing this

"On health care reform -- two extremes. On one end, government run health care, higher taxes.

On the other, insurance companies without rules, denying coverage. Barack Obama says both extremes are wrong.

His plan: Keep your employer-paid coverage. Keep your own doctor. Take on insurance companies to bring down costs. Cover pre-existing conditions, and preventive care.

Common sense for the change we need."

Obama: "I'm Barack Obama and I approved this message."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnk8minM3Qg&eurl=http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/10/ad_health.html

[eridani]

11. WhattheFUCK is wrong with higher taxes if they are less than premiums?

Lessee now, our Washington State version of single payer requires a tax of $100/month for all adults over tree times the poverty limit. (Also taxes on employers less than what those who provide insurance pay.) I just got forced into early retirement, and the COBRA payment is $767 a month. But hey, I don't mind paying it if I can avoid that horrible, horrible TAX! :sarcasm:

And when COBRA expires, then I can get the retiree health benefit which does not cover Group Health and my current doctor of 20 years. That's the fucking CHOICE that private insurance gives you. Preventive care is a great thing, but since 5% of the population has 50% of health care expenses, it doesn't mean jackshit to the bottom line what the other 95% does in the line of clean living.

Single payer is paid for by the government, which will not employ medical providers. That sure is fucked up--that way of doing things totally ruined the Interstate Highway System. Oh, wait....

[TexasObserver]

12. Agreed. Health care and employment should be unconnected.

[hendo]

15. I'm keeping mine

thank you very much. There is no such thing as a pre-existing condition under it. Its Grrr-eat!

[eridani]

17. For you. You are still taking health care away from other people though n/t

[The River]

19. Good To See

Young People still think they are immune from
the fickle finger of fate. If you live long enough
Sh*t will happen eventually. People loose jobs, insurance, spouses,
mortgages and too often their health as they age.

We need to do this now so our children and their children
will never have to worry about not being able to pay for health care...ever.

[gollygee]

21. I think we should have health care like in Australia

where I have family.

Everyone gets basic medical care with no out-of-pocket expense (obviously they pay through taxes but they don't give any money when they go to the doctor for any reason). People who have more money and don't want to wait for a knee replacement (or whatever) can buy health insurance at an additional cost that allows them to go to private hospitals. The private hospitals take the money from the national system plus from the insurance company, and there's basically no wait. But the basic medical care is very good, and people only have to wait for things where waiting isn't a big problem. If it becomes a big problem they are moved up the list.

The only reason they want to keep the insurance companies around is because they have strong lobbying power. It isn't in our country's best interest to keep the current insurance system. It's only in the interest of people who own insurance companies and make a ton of money off what appears to me to be largely a racketeering scheme.

[eridani]

24. I'm not against private insurers doing bells and whistles

Just like I don't care if Bill Gates has an expensive sprinkler/fire alarm system that I can't afford--as long as we get the same fire engine.

[leftofthedial]

22. Obama's plan is designed to ensure the continuing role of insurance companies

in owning America's health care system.

of course, it must include the right for the insurance company to keep their current profitable customers.

[eridani]

25. Which is why we need to fight hard for single payer.

Can we do it? Yes we can!