You cannot claim victory when you still have 140,000 troops stuck in a country.

[kentuck]

George W Bush may be holding his head high as he strides arrogantly from the scene. However, to say that he has "liberated" 50 million people is a bunch of bullshit. If indeed, he had won the wars and he had "liberated" all these folks, we would not have 140,000 troops still in the country and no plan for how to get them out. If there was a victory, we would have our troops out of the war zones and there would be independent and democratic governments set up and in place.

They are not set up and they are not democratic. We have no idea how either war is going to turn out. There is violence and instability in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Please don't let these assholes talk about "victory" when they have left so much to clean up and so much to define. If Mr Bush can get our troops out of Iraq in the next 50 days and the government in Iraq can operate as an independent country without our help, then he can talk about "victory" and success. As it is, he has left nothing but a pile of crap for someone else to clean up.

Enough bullshit! He has left Barack Obama a mess. Nobody knows how these "wars" are going to evolve. There is no victory at hand. There is nothing left but a big old stinking steamer. And that is the truth.

[onetwo]

1. The funny thing is we "won" when he originally said we won.

If we had removed the majority of our troops immediately after "Mission Accomplished" and left only the bare minimum necessary to hunt down Saddam Hussein, Bush's legacy would have been far better. He called it correctly the first time.

It is wrong to continue calling this conflict a "war." We are not fighting the state. Regime change happened years ago. The WMDs are gone. We have surpassed the standards of victory circa 2003 LONG ago. What we are doing in Iraq is not only pointless, but also potentially counterproductive -- lots of accidental civilian casualties = a whole generation of America-haters and a few potential vengeful and suicidal terrorists.

Bush, Cheney, and their war-profiteering cronies kept us there longer than necessary. Hope they enjoyed that $10B/month over the past four years.

[Mari333]

2. if we would have never gone in in the first place

we wouldnt even be discussing this right now.
there were never any wmds.
it was a pre emptive strike on a country to secure oil fields for large corporations.
and our soldiers died for nothing.

[Zywiec]

13. "The WMDs are gone"

What WMDs were there in 2003?

:shrug:

[Breeze54]

3. You also can't claim victory when 2-3 million Iraqi's are now refugee's, not

that there was ever any 'victory' to claim in the first place. Victory was not on the agenda.

[Mari333]

5. here is who emerged victorious

http://www.businesspundit.com/the-25-most-vicious-iraq-war-profiteers/?

[Breeze54]

7. Great link...thanks!

:hi:

[barbtries]

12. let me guess

war profiteers?

i've come to the conclusion that that is the true reason for the war: so bush, cheney, and their obscenely rich cohorts can get more so. the murderous bastards, may they be forced to answer for their crimes immediately and be imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

eta i nailed it. going to read now. thanks for the link

[Breeze54]

4. DU belch... uuurrrpp!

[kentuck]

6. Also, I can't wait to see how he spins Katrina??

New Orleans is coming back stronger than it was before the hurricane. People are working and re-building houses. Fifty years from now, history will say that I did the right thing by doing nothing...?

[leftstreet]

8. Babs already took care of that!

[StClone]

9. Victory may never be claimed in Iraq

[kentuck]

10. Tom Tomorrow sums it up nicely!

Thanks!

[madokie]

11. Only the occupied have victory

never the occupiers.

[spanone]

14. el presidente bu$hit....he's full of it.

the media will be hailing him as a fucking hero.....this entire shitfest we are in right now, economically and internationally is his making....fuck him

[Llewlladdwr]

15. There are still about 68,000 US troops in Germany.

And another 48,000 in Japan.

They've been there for over 60 years.

Do we count those as losses or wins?

[kentuck]

17. Are people still dying from carbombs and suicide bombings in Germany and Japan?

Are we there against the will of the people? I fail to see the parallel you are drawing?? Are you suggesting there is a moral equivalence in Iraq that is the same as Japan and Germany?? How many Americans have died in those two countries since "Mission Accomplished"??

[deaniac21]

18. Just showing you that your point is invalid.

[Llewlladdwr]

19. As of 1985 they were. Does that count as 'still'?

Rhein-Main AB was attacked by the Red Army Faction that year and they succeeded in killing three people.

I was present on a base in Japan which came under rocket attack by a Japanese militant group in 2000. Fortunately no one was injured.

There are very large percentages of the population in both countries that would very much like to see the US leave. Especially on Okinawa.

I'm suggesting that perhaps the world isn't as black and white as you seem to think.

[deaniac21]

16. Tell me about it. We have more than that in South Korea and

Germany!