Deer gets revenge after hunter shoots him

[cabluedem]

Deer gets revenge after hunter shoots him

SEDALIA, Mo. – A hunter bagged a big buck on the second day of firearms season, but the kill caused him a lot of pain. Randy Goodman, 49, said he thought two well-placed shots with his .270-caliber rifle had killed the buck on Nov. 19. Goodman said the deer looked dead to him, but seconds later the nine-point, 240-pound animal came to life.

The buck rose up, knocked Goodman down and attacked him with his antlers in what the veteran hunter called "15 seconds of hell." The deer ran a short distance and went down, and died after Goodman fired two more shots.

Soon Goodman started feeling dizzy and noticed his vest was soaked in blood.

So he reached his truck and drove to a hospital, where he received seven staples in his scalp and was treated for a slight concussion and bruises.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_fe_st/odd_deer_attacks_hunter

[Muttocracy]

1. "a lot of pain" and "15 seconds of hell" - was it a picnic for the deer?

this year or any other year?

And, no, I'm not anti-all-hunting, but those quotes are absurd. Clearly he was still able to keep shooting even after the "attack".

[GrpCaptMandrake]

11. Not a picnic for the deer

Glad you're not anti-hunting. There's a big difference for rural folks between shooting a deer for sport and shooting a deer to help cut the cost of that meat that sits in the grocer's meat case.

Most of the hunters I know pride themselves on their determination not to "gut-shoot" or otherwise maximize suffering, and most of the kills around here during hunting season go either into the freezer or to the Hunters Feeding the Hungry program.

This giggling downthread is genuinely ignorant, in the truest sense of the word.

[Muttocracy]

29. My grandfathers were poor farmers who hunted for meat in the winter

So that fed my parents, and maybe helped me be on this earth. Respectfully hunting for food I understand, and deer and buffalo as meat make a heck of a lot more sense than non-native cattle.

I doubt I'd have the stomach for hunting myself, but that's why I'm a mostly vegetarian who eats meat only a couple of times a year. Here in rural NY state the deer population is out of control. I'd rather we reintroduced wolves :) but in the meantime, hunting helps protect some of the plants, and I'm sure this winter it will feed many people. Some day when I have a house with a freezer maybe I'll buy deer meat for my dogs.

[riqster]

50. Wolf reintroduction can have some serious consequences in the lower 48

...or at least the more populous states. We already have problems with coyotes killing and eating outdoor pets and small livestock, adding wolves to the mix would exacerbate the issue.

Truly, every human who isn't living in a cave using flint tools and eating nothing but scavenged roots and plants bears some responsibility for the unbalanced deer population (and other wild animals, too), because we contribute to habitat loss, directly and/or indirectly. We messed up the natural order in a big way. So, is it any more moral to sit idly by and let 'Bambi' and his fellow deer starve to death than it is to hunt and ameliorate the population problem we caused?

From where I sit, the answer is no.

[saltpoint]

57. My plan involves going ahead with wolf introduction but at the same time

round up all the Republicans and ship them to the Seychelles.

That seems fair.

[marmar]

69. The Seychelles look beautiful in pics......Why ruin them with Republicans?

Cruel and unusual, OC. :)

[saltpoint]

73. LOL! True. But we face hard choices. The alternative is to allow Republicans

to REMAIN in the United States, permit them to vote, have children, and operate vehicles on the nationa's roads.

[riqster]

79. Now, THAT's a plan!

Send as many mosquitos as possible, too. That's another annoying pest that could be 'relocated' with the Reeps.

[saltpoint]

80. Agree. Plenty of room on th ark to add mosquitoes.

Also it's an excellent opportunity to get rid of the Orange Cleaner guy.

I've had about enough of him for several life times.

[riqster]

81. Add another deck to that ark

...and add all the people who want a Theocracy (you know, all those who say 'this is a christian nation').

And if Ron Popeil could be squeezed in, that'd be a bonus.

[saltpoint]

135. Excellent suggestion. We may want to charter a second ark, in fact.

There are PLENTY of fundie nutbags I'd like to see on that thing heading as far out to see as possible.

[riqster]

177. A theme song for the sailing?

"Ride, Captain, Ride" is all I can think of.

[saltpoint]

185. LOL! "Hit the Road, Jack" also deserves consideration.

Hell, let's make it a whole tape!

[riqster]

197. "Wooden Ships" would be good, but lyrically it is backwards.

[saltpoint]

198. True. But what a terrific song that is.

I really never get tired of it.

[riqster]

199. Yup.

Here's a more appropriate song: "Stick It Where The Sun Don't Shine" by Nick Lowe. Trivia fact-one of the Carter clan sang backup, in fact he married her IIRC.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. The Seychelles? Are you nuts?

I'd go to war with you over that plan. Why would you want to destroy one of the most beautiful and pristine areas of the planet by turning it over to Republicans? I say we ship them to Antarctica.


You would really want to inflict Republicans on this?

[saltpoint]

134. True, they are arrestingly beautiful. We should find a place with

a significant Islamic population, IMO. I thought Gov. Palin in particular might want to pal around with "terrorists."

[jmowreader]

179. Rounding up the Republicans is the right answer...

but sending them to Somalia is the right place. What did the Seychelles do to deserve Republicans?

[petronius]

182. They're beautiful, but they're going to be underwater if global warming

and sea level rise continue unchecked. So, we dump the Rs in the Seychelles and bring the Seychellians here to live in the now-empty mcmansions and drive the left-behind hummers. We'll see then if the Rs change their tune... ;)

[Muttocracy]

122. the wolves will drive out the coyotes actually

Coyotes spread after wolves were extirpated; wolves pushed out and/or killed a lot of the coyotes from Yellowstone.

But this is getting way off-thread.

[joshcryer]

14. Probably a bit better than being eaten alive, anyhow.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

22. Never thought of that

But how very true. I've SEEN a deer run down by a pack of coyotes. Yep. Coyotes. In West Virginia. It's a relatively recent phenomenon. It is, to say the least, an unsettling tableau to witness.

Extending your observation, it's also probably a bit better than being whacked by Aunt Matilda's Country Shitbox hurtling down the highway.

[joshcryer]

169. People hitting wildlife in cars has killed around 100+ a year.

It'd be interesting to see the posters in this thread praising the deaths of car owners...

In any case, yeah, once you actually see a real kill in wildlife (not on TV which is often quite watered down), you get over killing animals. Humans are so effective at it that it's nothing like the viceral bloodbath that nature generally employees.

Many comments in this thread remind me of that National Geographic last year that showed images of wolves taking down a moose. It was extremely violent, extremely bloody. Some people actually wrote in the next month admonishing the photographers for not shooting the moose and putting it out of its misery. That they were "reveling in blood and violence."

[Skip Intro]

2. Aw, the poor murderer got injured on his fun day of killing defenseless animals.

Pardon me while I grab a kleenex...

:sarcasm:

[GrpCaptMandrake]

12. It would appear the deer itself

invalidated your claim of "defenseless."

[joshcryer]

13. Wow, that's some powerful ownage right there.

Hat tip to you sir.

[quickesst]

17. "Pardon me while I grab a kleenex..."

Better to grab a sense of logic and common sense. A phony set of ideological woo-hoo is worth the price of deer over-population, and starvation, which results in these animals invading urban areas in search of food, which sends it one step further in the form of disease being spread into the deer population. The Bambi tactic has been proven over and over to be one held by the ignorant who cannot see further than their shallow ideological nose. For most hunters I know, a deer hunt puts food on their table, so why discriminate. Go save a cow or a chicken. They're treated much worse than a wild deer in the woods could ever be, and they both get killed for food AND profit. Thanks.
quickesst

[lamo]

21. Share the Harvest

Also here in Missouri, we have a program called Share the Harvest, by the conservation department, which I loathe, and with donations from groups like The Elks Club, where you can donate a deer you kill, it will be processed, and donated to the needy, and or hungry. Great program! Deer populations must be managed, or there will eventually be no deer. Blue tongue, wasting disease, a disease where the animals brain actually wastes away, are becoming prevalent in the deer population. The conservation department tests a certain percentage of the kill each year for these diseases. Hunting is a necessity, it teaches responsibility, respect, and an appreciation of wildlife.

[cabluedem]

42. Did you know that Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) is suspected to be in wild deer too? nt

Go ahead and donate that deer you killed knowing that you have contributed to the spread to the disease to the poor and needy who have no health-care, if it makes you "feel better" about your deadly kill of an innocent animal.

[lamo]

131. You just don't understand do you?

A kill is always deadly. ALWAYS! That's why its called a kill. You don't understand what it is to grow up in rural America. I'm as liberal as anyone here, but hunting, farm raising animals for human consumption is a way of life in this country. Always has been always will be. Small farmers in this country have feed you city folk forever. We hunt, we use what we kill, or give it to those less fortunate, that does not make us bad people!

[cabluedem]

30. LOL!!! nt

[Raskolnik]

54. So, I assume you think that every person that eats meat is a "murderer?"

Or is it no longer murder if you pay someone else to kill the animal for you?

[rch35]

117. i wonder if the absurdity of what you just said is apparent to you at all nt

[ContinentalOp]

3. Hahaha, awesome. Too bad the deer didn't finish the job. -nt-

[RebelOne]

18. My thoughts, exactly.

I have no sympathy for the hunter at all.

[cabluedem]

40. Yeap. Too bad he didn't go "code blue" like he wanted his prey to. nt

[amborin]

45. my thoughts, too

[Raskolnik]

85. Do all people that eat meat or wear leather deserve to be hurt as well?

[ContinentalOp]

143. Hmm, good question.

Maybe if they think eating meat or wearing is some kind of a FUN SPORT, then yeah. Leather clubs: you're on notice. :P

[Raskolnik]

149. Then you must *definitely* think that someone who enjoys eating a steak deserves to be hurt, right?

[ContinentalOp]

157. I think the punishment they get from eating a disgusting steak is bad enough -nt-

[Raskolnik]

84. What an ugly thing to say about a person being hurt.

[ContinentalOp]

144. Oh well.

It's an ugly world.

[uppityperson]

90. Are your shoes made of petrochemicals or leather?nt

[ContinentalOp]

145. Yeah, so?

I'm pro-hunting. That's why I'm lamenting the fact that this dumb deer was such a poor hunter that he didn't finish the job. It's pretty cruel that the deer didn't finish him off and end his suffering. :P

[smoogatz]

4. Damned fine deer.

Bonus points to any DUer who can identify the Hemingway character I'm pretending to be.

[saltpoint]

44. Hi, smoogatz. Is it 'Robert Wilson'?

[smoogatz]

48. dingdingdingdingding!

Wow! I'm impressed, Old Crusoe. A man who knows his Hemingway!

[saltpoint]

51. Your post was the cool water. I just fetched the bucket. In a thread

about hunting, I thought you invoked the right guy. Papa did him some hunting and some fishing, too.


:hi:

[smoogatz]

88. He would have loved this story, too.

And admired the hell out of the fight in that buck.

[saltpoint]

136. I think you're right. He felt the ferocity of living things in a very

visceral way.

[AndyTiedye]

5. Go Bambi!

[Number23]

8. I second that sentiment!

[cabluedem]

31. Amen to that !!!! nt

[Crunchy Frog]

6. It's unfortunate that he was so lightly injured.

Maybe he'll at least have some long term sequelae.

[cabluedem]

32. One can hope so, at least! nt

[Raskolnik]

56. What an ugly sentiment.

Could you explain what this man did to deserve serious injury?

[Crunchy Frog]

97. From the standpoint of the deer, he did quite a bit to deserve serious injury.

I ALWAYS root for the hunted when they turn on the hunter. Hell, it wouldn't even be sport for the hunter if this sort of thing never happened, he should be grateful. :shrug:

[Raskolnik]

99. So I assume you ALWAYS root for people that eat meat to be hurt too, right?

Because otherwise you'd be pretty inconsistent, wouldn't you?

[Crunchy Frog]

108. If they're in the process of killing it, and it fights back, yes.

What's the fucking problem? :shrug:

[Raskolnik]

109. Unless you're a vegan, you're rooting for people to be hurt for doing your dirty work

and if you are a vegan, then you're just an asshole for rooting for people to be hurt.

[Crunchy Frog]

114. Ooooh! Raskolnik thinks I'm an asshole.

I think I'll crawl off into a corner and cry. :cry:

[tabasco]

155. Maybe they should shoot the deer from helicopters.

Then there would be no risk of injury.

What kind of fucked-up "hunting" is it, anyway, in which there is no risk.

I prefer bow hunting. Rifle hunting is no challenge.

Oh noes! You might get scratched by a deer in its death throes!!

Heaven forbid.

[ashling]

7. What kind of Stapler

stanley Bostich

Swingline

good thing he didn't have to go to the ER because of a 4 hr Viagra high!


...then again ....:rofl:

[saltpoint]

9. Mr. Goodman picked a fight. He got one.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

10. Ignorant story. Responses to match

Would any of the sillier responses here have been mitigated if the story had had a line such as ". . . a hunter who spends each deer season filling his freezer so his children don't eat hormone-injected, fat-laden meat from a feedlot where the animals stand up to their knees in their own feces?"

Extra credit: anyone here ever spent back-breaking weeks plowing, tilling, planting and maintaining a garden only to have sweet, precious "Bambi" and his pals come and eat it down to stubs because an unhunted, underfed deer population didn't have enough to eat in the woods, or got driven out if its habitat by the nearest McMansion development?

Just curious.

[moriah]

16. I like your style.

If you eat meat, don't bitch about hunting -- well, unless the hunter doesn't eat the meat he kills.

Deer get to spend most of their lives happily running free, not penned up and fattened up and genetically modified and fed antibiotics and as you mentioned sitting in their own excrement.

Especially if the hunter is a good shot, deer suffer less than domesticated food animals do. Obviously this hunter wasn't a good shot, so maybe his experience will teach him to aim better so they die quickly.

Now, anyone who kills animals and then either doesn't eat the meat, or only cuts out the choicest cut and leaves the rest to rot... they need to be attacked by a whole herd of these deer without a gun to even things out. Or anyone who decides to shoot wolves from a helicopter.

[ContinentalOp]

146. Or alternately...

maybe the deer wasn't a good enough shot and he should have learned to aim better so his enemy would die quickly. :shrug:

[stuntcat]

20. .

ty, that does need to be pointed out. I'll never eat meat again because of what goes on in the meat "farms", the torture and the waste, it's sick.


(I like the story anyway though! :) except for the big animal getting killed)

[ecstatic]

25. except... he's not hunting for food... He's hunting for pleasure nt

[moriah]

26. Uh, articles said he ate the deer.

If he didn't eat the deer, I would be very, very upset.

I also like my brother-in-law's take on it -- he prefers to only hunt with a bow and arrow, he said it gives the deer a bit more of a chance. He often is happy coming back from deer camp without having gotten anything except some good photos, but if he does kill a deer, it is eaten and the hide is tanned and used.

[uppityperson]

28. Why do you assume that?

[cabluedem]

35. Most urban hunters are exactly like this man. My late uncle was exactly like this "hunter". n/t

[uppityperson]

89. Poor logic on 2 points.

1) just because you know "urban hunters" who are like that does not mean "most" are like that.

Edited to add bonus info and question: http://www.cityofsedalia.com/content/190/68/default.aspx
20,339 is population of his town. Median Household Income: $28,641, Median Housing Value: $59,600
Is that rich enough or big enough to fall into your "urban hunters" category?


2) even if he hunted for pleasure as well as for food, does this mean he deserves to be hurt? Do you enjoy your food? Should you be hurt?

[Raskolnik]

72. Do you deserve to be hurt if you eat a chicken sandwich more for the pleasure than the food value?

Just curious.

[Crunchy Frog]

33. Hey, I always just root for the underdog in these encounters.

And what do you suggest we do about the unhunted, underfed human population?

[cabluedem]

41. Simple. We give idiots like this "hunter" a license to shoot humans, instead of deer. nt

[DutchLiberal]

83. Too bad the deer didn't hurt the hunter even more.

Everybody who murders defenseless animals deserves it.

[uppityperson]

91. You are a vegan who never wears shoes with any leather in them, right?

[DutchLiberal]

127. I'm a vegetarian, yes.

[uppityperson]

159. delete dupe

[uppityperson]

160. Yet you wish harm on someone. Shame. You must be a vegan also.

You must wear shoes made from plant materials that are raised organically without imposing on any animal's habitat. Interesting. I didn't know there were any on DU who went that far.

[TheMightyFavog]

96. Spoken like one who has never gone hunting.

Deer aren't defensless. They have superior senses and camoflauge. And they know that when it starts to get cold and when they hear the popping sounds, they know to hide in the woods and stay there all day. When I used to hunt, I hunted from the ground (Due to the type of gun I was using, tree stands weren't really an option for me.) One day, I was walking through the woods, I stopped by a nearby tree to relieve myself, heard a crash, wheeled around with my gun, and saw a deer sprinting away, gone before I could shoulder my weapon. upon further inspection, I saw that that deer was bedded down about 10 meters from where I was walking. The bugger waited for me to walk past before bugging out. Smart Deer.

I don't hunt anymore, because frankly, I don't like sitting outside for long periods of time freezing my ass off anymore. However, I still support hunting, so long as one eats what they kill.

[DutchLiberal]

128. Didn't read it. Not interested. Hunting is murder.

[boozepusher]

129. LOL

:rofl:

[DutchLiberal]

130. You find that funny? Good. Shows your true colors.

[boozepusher]

140. Not really funny

more like sad. To equate hunting with murder is in my opinion ridiculous.

[DutchLiberal]

151. In my opinion, your opinion is ridiculous...

[Raskolnik]

173. So you really do think hunting is "murder"? n/t

[DutchLiberal]

191. Didn't I already write that?

[smoogatz]

87. I'm torn.

Venison is delicious, although up here in the north country we have chronic wasting disease to worry about. And as you say, the deer really have no natural predators (all the wolves and panthers are gone, just about), and it turns out that they thrive in man-altered environments: farmland, golf courses, suburban developments, etc. I have a certain admiration for hunters who are safe, sober, able to take their deer efficiently and without a lot of fuss, and courteous to land-owners. Unfortunately, in our neck of the woods the majority seem to be obnoxious drunken yahoos who trespass on your land, shit in your bushes and leave their gutpiles behind for your dogs to drag home. I also have a great deal of respect for a shot buck with enough fighting spirit to stomp the hell out of the guy that did the shooting. Damned fine buck, as Hemingway might have said.

[orleans]

15. oh deer....n/t

[saltpoint]

19. The newspaper piece from Sedalia does not offer one syllable about

Mr. Goodman being a subsistence hunter.

We do hear, however, about his plans to mount the animal's head on his wall at home.

[cabluedem]

36. Bingo!!! Can you say Wealthy, SUV driving hunter is attacked by his own prey? n/t

[saltpoint]

39. Hi, cabluedem. The local paper can run what it wants, of course, but

the piece was all Mr. Goodman this and all Mr. Goodman that.

It wasn't much on analysis. I think the editors were looking for something that would spark gab at the barber shop and tavern, and pretty much got it.

In another post in this thread you reference Glendon Swarthout's novel BLESS THE BEASTS AND THE CHILDREN, a book I read long ago but still remember. Swarthout was one of the early, clear voices for preservation of natural habitat and environmental integrity for native species.

Some of his interviews on the environment with the media in Arizona (and others) are really good. I get the feeling that you and Swarthout would have a lot to talk about over a cold beer or coffee.

[uppityperson]

112. Info on Sedalia...

http://www.cityofsedalia.com/content/190/68/default.aspx
20,339 population. Median Household Income: $28,641, Median Housing Value: $59,600

Is that "wealthy"?

[leftchick]

105. I know so many of these Palin types

I do not know one who actually NEEDS to hunt for their food. Not one.

[saltpoint]

137. You mention Gov. Palin -- I'm still not quite over the notion

of her blowing wolves out of the woods from helicopters.

Unbelievable.

[leftchick]

152. and her home full of trophies

it is truly disgusting.

[saltpoint]

153. Hi, leftchick. Gov. Palin was really getting off on being an up-North,

moose-guttin' wolf-blastin' rough-n-tough Frontier Gal.

God. I hated that shtick. I hated the cheapness of it. And then to throw Jesus into the mix, and a kind of End Times Rapture vibe . . . it was way the hell over the top.

I'd love to see the Republican Party grow up a bit. But if they don't, they get what they pay for.

[lame54]

23. Finally, it's a real sport...

I think there would be a lot less hunters if this was the norm

[GrpCaptMandrake]

24. I think there would be a lot less hunters

if the "Yay, Bambi" crowd got its way. Why? Because eventually there would be a lot less deer, the result of habitat loss, carrying capacity reduction and disease, overall bad for "Bambi" and hunters AND the "Yay Bambi" types who appear to know little or nothing about what happens in what woods the U.S. has remaining.

Deer, while wild, aren't an unmanaged species. In many parts of the country, they were nearly extinct by the turn of the century. Such was the case in many parts of West Virginia. The population only returned after careful management and breeding control.

Now, with deforestation on again, we're seeing a repeat of the process. In addition, other species compete for the same limited reserve of forage. A flock of turkeys can induce starvation in a deer population in little more than a year.

[Enthusiast]

47. Overbrowsing by deer has nearly destroyed

Pennsylvania forests. Young trees are eaten by hungry deer as soon as they germinate. It is a serious problem.

Not only that. Humans are predators and there isn't a thing wrong with it. We need more hunters, hunters of deer. Overpopulated deer are susceptible to disease.

[saltpoint]

52. Deer eating away forests versus human-directed destruction of domain...

I don't believe all the deer in the joint can eat as fast as a Catepillar earth mover.

[Raskolnik]

59. Then you don't know very much about deer. n/t

[saltpoint]

61. I generally up on my deer and on my earth-moving equipment as well.

[Cleita]

92. Also there is a lot of trees that they don't eat because they don't like them.

Deforestation and then the reseeding of virgin forests have upset the balance of nature because the reseeding is often of vegetation that's different from the original old forest mix causing animals to adapt and over graze.

[joshcryer]

167. Don't forget the contribution by hunters to wildlife funds.

And the overall support of blm lands and parks by hunters.

Yuppies seem to neglect that the hiking trial that they go on is being paid for by "evil terrible blood sport."

[cabluedem]

34. Reminds me of "Bless the Beasts and the Children". nt

[saltpoint]

43. Just to call in Glendon Swarthout's buffaloes in support of your OP, here is an

excerpt from that novel:

- - -

"And one by one, driven to exhaustion, trapped by fence and bewilderment, under an immaculate sky, the creatures died. They died not in mercy, not in the majesty which was their due, but as the least of life, accursed of nature. They died in the dust of insult and the spittle of lead."

- - -

[moriah]

27. Youtube Video -- Deer Attacks Hunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxaTCz96y68

Edited to add link to better video that explains just how this guy managed to start wrestling with a deer. This is not the same guy as the story this thread is about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khKrd1RNy2U&feature=related

He sprayed himself with elk urine, including spraying it into his *mouth*.... Eugh. He had only a bow-and-arrow, and deer did not die. He came out of it a lot worse than the deer.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. Awesome video, thanks!

This is a guy who really needs removing from the gene pool.

[saltpoint]

37. Many hunters and anglers are Democrats.

No argument there.

But quite a few hunters are Republicans through and through. They are Nixon voters, Reagan voters, Poppy Bush and Junior Bush voters. They vote for GOP candidates from the top of the ballot down to their local city and county officials. They are Murkowski voters. Inhofe voters. Barbour voters.

It would be interesting to know Mr. Goodman's politics. Hunting connects to a very early time in human survival and is borne along these days relative to the predominance of habitat, habitat expressly targeted and increasingly jeopardized by the very people from Nixon onward whom many Republican-voting hunters support and sustain.

[Enthusiast]

126. Me, my son, nephew and brother, for example. nt

[saltpoint]

138. And an uncle of mine, one of the very first U.S. outdoor writers invited to

Cuba.

He was an expert woodsman in all respects, and could put a sentence together nicely as well.

And was a union-loyal Democrat, head to toe.

[Enthusiast]

170. Cuba, back in the day, was

an amazing blue water fishery.

I think Obama should quickly move to normalize relations with Cuba. The tourism boost would help Cuba and do wonders for Florida tourism as well.

[saltpoint]

171. I'm with you. There is such an opportunity, too. Obama could make

his name in history early on with such a move, IMO.

[saltpoint]

46. Acteon and Ahab. Both hunters. But very different sorts of hunters.

Hunters, anglers. Acteon of the wilderness, Ahab on THE PEQUOD on the high seas.

Mr. Goodman's story is a greatly diluted gruel of Acteon's and Ahab's rich nectar, but Mr. Goodman shares something of the same mythology.

Acteon spies The Huntress in a pool in a forest glen, is caught looking, and dies at the fury of his own hounds once the goddess avenges herself.

Ahab, already lame from a previous encounter with the white whale, sales into Fate again and the whale bests him and his crew, save for Melville's narrator, the lone survivor.

Mr. Goodman of Missouri survives his encounter with the deer but not without wound.

[leftchick]

49. good for the deer!

at least he bagged an asshole before he died a painful death.

[Raskolnik]

53. What makes the man who got hurt an "asshole?" n/t

[originalpckelly]

55. "I'll take douchebags who kill animals who weren't bothering them for $500, Alex."

[Raskolnik]

58. Are all people who eat meat "douchebags?"

[originalpckelly]

63. No, only people who out of their way to kill other living things.

I eat meat, but then again, I don't go on trips designed around the pain and suffering of another animal.

I'd feel for this guy if he'd been walking down the street and out of nowhere this deer came and tried to fuck him up, but this guy went out to go looking for the deer.

[Raskolnik]

65. So you pay someone else to kill animals for you. How does that make you any different?

You "go out of your way to kill other living things" every time you eat a hamburger. The only difference between you and the hunter is that the hunter isn't deluding himself about the fact that an animal has to die for a person to eat meat.

[originalpckelly]

70. I don't find enjoyment in death.

Is this man hunting to survive or is he killing for pleasure? Isn't it sick to take pleasure from killing like that? I doubt many chicken processors take joy from their work, they have to do it to survive.

Perhaps I'm a nut to think that someone who takes pleasure in killing an animal is more likely to take a human life?

[Raskolnik]

74. Who cares if he is doing it to "survive?" You could "survive" without meat, but you eat it because

it is pleasurable. You pay other people to kill the animals for you, well out of your sight, so you now you feel morally superior to people who do something that is almost certainly less cruel than the factory farming that you use to put meat on your own plate. That's just hypocritical.

[originalpckelly]

100. What an utterly idiotic thing to say. As we all know, eating a bird...

is the same as taking joy in seeing it die.

[Raskolnik]

103. If you take pleasure in eating meat that you don't strictly need to "survive"

you are taking joy in something that couldn't have happened without its death. Go ahead and delude yourself that the meat you buy in the store somehow magically appeared there without any suffering or death, but don't act morally superior for your own hypocrisy.

[uppityperson]

94. Do you enjoy your food? Do you enjoy a chicken sandwich?

Isn't it sick to take pleasure from killing an animal just for pleasure?

[uppityperson]

93. eating plastic wrapped meat that someone else killed after it lived a poor life is morally superior?

Who killed your meat? Do you think that that animal didn't suffer pain, didn't suffer nasty living conditions?

[originalpckelly]

101. Are you a vegetarian?

[uppityperson]

102. No. I also don't think eating factory meat is morally superior to hunting or growing own.

I eat my own chickens, though not those with names as those are the egg layers. I eat local fish and local beef.

Are you a vegan?

[saltpoint]

60. Mr. Goodman may have his virtues for all I know but in the bout with

this deer, he went in with a deliberate and decisive advantage.

The deer, unless the Sedalia newspaper article was lax in coverage, was minding its own business and was unarmed.

[Raskolnik]

62. Are the hundreds of millions of cows, chickens, turkeys, and fish eaten every year

killed in a fair fight?

[originalpckelly]

64. Would the millions of cows, chickens, turkeys and fish eaten each year...

exist without human intervention? Perhaps for the fish caught wild they would, but not for the cows and etc that are farmed.

[Raskolnik]

67. Poor argument. A very large portion of the deer population exists

because humans have modified the environment to suit them.

[uppityperson]

95. So it is ok to raise animals in inhumane conditions since it is because people do it for food?

Rather than killing animals in the wild, which is bad.

[saltpoint]

66. IMO the hinge swings less to how animals are rendered than to why they are

killed.

In another post I inquire into Mr. Goodman's politics, wondering if he is a Democrat or a Republican. For all I know he may not vote at all, or may be an independent with unpreditable political purposes and intents.

If -- I'm just sayin if -- Mr. Goodman is a Republican, there's a very strong chance that he has supported candidates at all levels of the ballot who are in the deep comfy pocket of anti-environmentalist interests whose vision for the country has involved fattening their wallets while reducing total domain.

And of course it is that domain that is in dispute here, not hog farming or poultry farming.

You got a guy with a gun and a deer in that domain, the guy possibly -- possibly -- a Republican whose votes go to guys who diminish that domain -- a form of social rendering if you will.

There's a hinge problem there.

[Raskolnik]

68. Oh, please. This hasn't anything to do with Democrats/Republicans

Nothing at all.

[saltpoint]

71. The domain in which any animal lives in the wild has quite a bit to do

with human husbandry of the land.

It has quite a bit to do with it.

[Raskolnik]

75. Because humans have been poor stewards of the land, this man deserved to be hurt?

[saltpoint]

76. I think you are inhabiting a world in which deer, or wolves, or what have you,

are armed stalkers of human beings, who, toting their weaponry, wander into housing developments and retail stores etc with the expressed goal of bagging you or me or Mr. Goodman.

God knows I haven't been everywhere. But I am yet to see an armed deer stalking anybody.

The reverse however is in question in the Sedalia account. Mr. Goodman was the interloper and Mr. Goodman had a gun.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Raskolnik]

77. That has nothing to do with anything. No one is saying that hunting is appropriate

because if humans don't kill wild animals, they will kill us. That is a foolish notion, and no one subscribes to it.

What I am saying is that people who take pleasure in another person's injury (as many of the posters on this thread are doing) are reveling in a human being being hurt for doing something personally that they pay other people to do on their behalf, out of their sight.

That's ugly.

[saltpoint]

78. We return, though, to Mr. Goodman's expressed goal for that given day

in Missouri.

Would you not say the advantage goes to Mr. Goodman with his rifle as opposed to the deer with no rifle?

Hunters and anglers incur the risk of the conditions they invade to pursue their sport. Period.

Ask which of the combatants held the distinct advantage. It seems to me it was Mr. Goodman. When he decided to go deer hunting, he incurs by unwritten contract the risk that he may become injured.

He did in fact become injured.

That's pretty much what happened, wasn't it?

[Raskolnik]

86. Whether the human being has an advantage is irrelevant to whether he deserved to be hurt.

[Crunchy Frog]

107. "Waaahh, Mommy! I was trying to kill something and it hurt me!"

I've actually got a little bit more respect for most hunters than that. Too bad you don't seem to.

[Raskolnik]

111. No one, least of all the hunter in question, is saying this is the greatest human tragedy in history

but what is fucked up is people on this thread taking pleasure in another human being being harmed for something that they pay other people to do for them out of their sight. That's hypocritical, and quite ugly.

[saltpoint]

139. Is that true, though? If a 7th grader invades the playground of the

5th graders and, without provocation of any sort, roughs up an 11th year old, are you telling me you're rooting for the 7th grader?

I'm rooting for the 5th grader to deck his ass.

[Crunchy Frog]

106. No. Because he went looking for trouble, and found it.

Look, I respect the fact that we're all part of a food chain, but the fact of the matter is that there are no guarantees that things in a food chain will always only go in one direction. I'm a meat eater, but I've also never found it particularly tragic when someone gets eaten by a crocodile or mountain lion. As much as we may try to deny it, we are not separate from the web of life but a part of it.

A hunter who can't tolerate the possibility of getting a little scratch while out hunting would be better off staying home with his nursemaid. Or maybe he could go to one of those Dick Cheney petting zoo/canned hunt parks instead.

[leftchick]

104. because he kills harmless animals for fun

asshole.

[Raskolnik]

110. Are you a vegan? n/t

[leftchick]

115. I don't eat meat

and I don't shoot and kill animals because my dick is so small that I have a complex that makes me have to feel 'Macho'.

[Raskolnik]

116. With regard to the latter, that makes two of us.

But I'm just curious if you feel the same way about people that eat meat as you do about hunters.

[leftchick]

118. are you being intentionally obtuse?

No I am not thrilled about meat eaters and I also contribute to The Humane Farming Association to offset the cruelty there. Shooting animals for fun is really not the same thing at all. I have NEVER met anyone who hunts that NEEDED to in order to survive. That includes my aunts, uncles, cousins and former friends. They call it a sport yet it is really slaughter.

[Raskolnik]

119. Who cares if they NEED to hunt to survive. People don't NEED to eat a chicken sandwich

to live, but they do so because they like it. People on this thread are taking pleasure in another person being hurt because that person was killing an animal himself rather than having a factory farm do it for him out of his sight. That's hypocritical, and ugly.

[leftchick]

123. you are being intentionally obtuse

now I understand. bye.

[Raskolnik]

124. I'm not pretending I don't understand your point.

You simply don't have much of one.

Bye.

[cabluedem]

133. Next time he will do a "Sara Palin" number and shoot at deer from an aircraft. What "hunters"....

these creeps are. So one finally got what was coming to him. Too bad.

[Raskolnik]

147. Do you think all meat eaters should "get what's coming to them"?

[leftchick]

190. just the ones that kill for the pleasure of it

For the majority of hunters meat is a byproduct and an excuse to be a macho big man hunter. Pretty straight forward.

[flvegan]

82. I figured this thread for a much larger trainwreck.

Hmph.

[uppityperson]

163. patience. will keep kicking it

[ddeclue]

113. The deer played "possum"???

:rofl:

I saw a youtube where the deer tried to do something "else" to the hunter and that was hilarious...

Doug D.

[mitchum]

120. Pretty unsporting attitude from someone engaged in an alleged sport

[Fire Walk With Me]

121. Even the Waaambulance driver would laugh at him.

[Raskolnik]

125. Yeah, a person getting hurt is *hilarious*

Too bad he didn't get hurt any worse.

[Fire Walk With Me]

132. If people went out and wrestled wild deer, I'd think it a tad fairer.

I'm going to have to lobby that. Real men don't need guns; only a one-piece wrasslin' jumpsuit. I'd also enforce the "Wear a Mexican wrestler mystery mask" law.

[Raskolnik]

141. Do you kill your food with your hands, like a realy man would?

Or do pay other people to do it for you so you don't have to get your hands dirty?

[saltpoint]

154. You keep using this point as a hinge, but I don't accept the premise that

"males" -- or more accurately "real men" -- kill what they eat bodily, or have to.

Among the things wrong with that sort of argument is that women also eat food.

"Real women" and "real men."

I honestly have no idea in hell what that means. I hope you aren't suggesting that someone who uses a net to fish in Polynesia is not a real man or a real woman for eating the day's catch from the sea.

If I order a pizza tonight with tomatoes, black olives, mushrooms, and onions, and I by god might do just that, do I have to personally have cultivated gardens in which those vegetables grew to justify eating them?

Would any of us be less "real" as women or men if we did not grow the vegetables we eat on a pizza?

In the grand scale of living things, a black olive = a deer. Both have an independent genetic future, do they not?

[Raskolnik]

172. "a black olive = a deer"

Sophistry.

[saltpoint]

186. No, I'm serious.

Olive trees live some 1-2 thousand years.

[Raskolnik]

174. And, for the record, *you* brought up the "real man" nonsense, and then mocked it

You're the one that made the issue of bullshit machismo an issue, and then you feign that *I* was using it as a "hinge".

That kind silliness may have made you feel clever in your Intro to Philosophy course, but it isn't really getting you anywhere here.

[saltpoint]

187. 'realy man' is your phrase. Post #141.

Not mine.

[moriah]

180. In those cases, the deer wins. Video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khKrd1RNy2U

Man came out a lot worse than deer.

This one I laughed like hell at. Guy asked for it, totally.

[saltpoint]

142. I call on Wendell Berry, poet, to offer an alternative hunting:

- - - -

"Lilies"

Hunting them, a man must sweat, bear
the whine of a mosquito in his ear,
grow thirsty, tired, despair perhaps
of ever finding them, walk a long way.
He must give himself over to chance,
for they live beyond prediction.
He must give himself over to patience,
for they live beyond will. He must be led
along the hill as by a prayer.
If he finds them anywhere, he will find
a few, paired on their stalks,
at ease in the air as souls in bliss.
I found them here at first without hunting,
by grace, as all beauties are first found.
I have hunted and not found them here.
Found, unfound, they breathe their light
into the mind, year after year.

--from A PART
- - -

[ContinentalOp]

148. This thread is hilarious. You don't have to be vegan or some kind of cruel sicko to cheer the deer.

This guy voluntarily entered into a one on one battle with a deer. It's a "sport" right? So it's kind of exciting to see the underdog fight back a bit. What's the problem hunters? You only like risk-free hunting from the safety of your helicopter?

[Raskolnik]

150. No one is saying that a hunter has the expectation of absolute safety.

What is ugly, however, is the people on this thread taking pleasure in another person being hurt for doing something that the overwhelming majority of people pay someone else to do for them.

Hypocrisy and ugliness.

[saltpoint]

156. Philosophies are banging together, is all.

I think in the thread there is a discernible call for the dignity of the animal.

A call that the deer has little chance to survive an encounter with a human hunter with a powerful rifle.

I think it's natural for many people to argue for the animal's dignity and against the interloper with the firearm.

[ContinentalOp]

158. Hahaha, W...T...F!?

I don't take pleasure from boxing or football, or slow down at a car crash like the vast majority of Americans do and I sure as hell don't take pleasure from killing and torturing animals. I do think it's pretty funny that this asshole got what was coming to him. I think that's something I might actually pay to see. The guy is OK after all so what's the big fucking deal? He won. He proved what a "man" he is. Why should I shed any tears for this idiot?

[uppityperson]

162. You must be an organic cotton wearing vegan. Oh yes, and no animals were

harmed or habitat destroyed in growing your food, clothing, computers.

Most people eat food that comes from factory farms, where the animals are treated inhumanely then killed so people can eat them. The majority of people pay someone else to provide them with food. Taking pleasure seeing someone hurt for getting their own food is hypocritical.

[Raskolnik]

176. No is saying you should shed tears for anyone.

You don't have to give a shit about any other human being on the planet if you don't want to.

What is ugly, however, is taking pleasure in a person being hurt for doing something that most people pay someone else to do for them.

Do you think you are an "asshole" for using animal products that require the death of a living thing? Do your friends and family that enjoy eating meat deserve to get what's coming to them for taking pleasure in something that requires the death of an animal?

[moriah]

168. Yeah, it's funny. You saw me post the video of a deer getting revenge too.

That one was funny as hell, especially since the deer in that case came out of it with less injuries than the silly human who sprayed himself with elk urine trying to make a video of elk.

I am not upset about cheering the deer... I just don't think hunting is a bad thing, as long as the meat is eaten. If an animal is killed simply for a trophy and not eaten, that to me is disrespectful to the animal.

I also think a hunter owes it to the animal to strive for as clean of a kill as is possible, to keep the animal from suffering longer than it has to. This hunter obviously wasn't that great of a shot if it took three bullets, so hopefully he learned the lesson and will work on his aim -- if he's going to hunt, make sure the poor deer don't suffer longer than they have to.

And as I said in my other post about the subject, people who shoot animals from helicopters need to be attacked by a herd of deer or elk or moose without a gun or a bow.

[MrSlayer]

161. And this is why we need to be allowed to hunt with M-16s and AK-47s.

If he could have raked the deer ala Sonny Corleone this would never have happened.

[Raskolnik]

175. You know that an M-16 and an AK-47 are significantly less powerful than most deer rifles, right?

But I'm sure you knew that.

[MrSlayer]

193. Yes, it was a joke.

[Hanse]

164. That's as funny as a Wal-mart employee being trampled to death by crazed shoppers.

Am I being sarcastic? Am I being serious?

I'll never tell.

[saltpoint]

165. There's not enough religious crossfire in this thread, prompting

this observer to throw in the challenge laid down by What's-His-Name to his soon-to-be apostles to abandon their nets and become instead fishers of men.

What might it have taken for a person or a cause or an idea or a revelation to prevail upon Mr. Goodman to put away his hunting rifle and instead become hunters of lilies like the narrator of Wendell Berry's poem? (See post 142 for text)

On the same hinge between a Missouri man who goes out to hunt deer and a Kentucky man who goes out to hunt lilies is a wide swing of a damned interesting cultural door.

[boozepusher]

178. I guess when

lilies begin tasting like venison, Mr. Goodman can put down his rifle.

[saltpoint]

183. Appetites there are of a myriad selection.

Whose hunger gets fed what to sate the soul?

[boozepusher]

188. The chair is against the wall.

[saltpoint]

189. Don't say that. You'll upset Neil Diamond.

You know how volatile he is.

[moriah]

181. If you want religious crossfire...

I'm Pagan. That does influence some of my views about hunting.

I personally do not hunt.

The people I know who do, eat what they kill, and often use other parts of the deer. The ones I know who don't tan the hides themselves, I have spoken to and hooked up with people who tan hides for various things -- including several drum makers.

I actually think catch-and-release fishing -- where the goal is not to get a catch to bring home for dinner, but to catch the biggest fish, take a picture of them with the fish, and then releasing the fish -- is more cruel than hunting, so long as all useful parts of the hunted animal are used.

Why? The animals aren't killed, right?

But they suffer snags in the mouth, are pulled out of the water and essentially smothered for the time it takes the picture to be taken. Tortured for no good reason.

I believe in the concept of 'harm none', but I also realize that it is impossible to live your life without harming something. When we breathe in, we breathe in bacteria that our lungs may harm. Even if you eat only soy, you are harming the soybean. This is what makes 'harm none' a guideline and a goal, not a rule.

So, if I am going to harm something else for my continued survival, I do my best to make the sacrifice worth something. I do not waste food, I put scraps in compost instead of down the garbage disposal, so that the compost can grow vegetables and be used instead of wasted. When a relative or friend gets a deer at deer camp, I eat the meat they give me, and if they aren't into tanning I get the hides to people I know who are into tanning hides. I know several people who use antler to make various things, including beads. I even know people who will use the stomach and bladder of a killed deer to make useful things.

We modern humans have been able to disassociate ourselves from the actual act of slaughter by buying our meat pre-packaged, but I've raised feeder calves, I've raised chickens. I've never been able to participate in the slaughter (I do not want to ruin a perfectly good hide by puking on it, the most I can do is clean fish without losing my lunch) but when you have known the name of the bovine you ate for supper one night, it brings a different perspective to the act of eating meat. I would rather eat a cow that I know was pampered and scratched and had a huge green pasture as well as corn when it wanted it, or a deer that ran free in the wilderness until the very end, and know that all of each animal was used, than to eat a cow that might have been penned up and essentially tortured its whole life, and then parts of it left to rot.

But I'm weird.

[saltpoint]

184. For my take, moriah, it may be pagans who have the keen instinct

on this issue.

I loved your post.

We align not on every single element but on many things.

Also the next time someone calls you 'weird,' let me know. I'd like a word with that person.

Physiologically we human critters are equipped with things we maybe used to need more than we do know. Certain of our teeth, for example, are clearly designed to tear flesh. Pubic hair, although quite delightful, is more or less superfluous. And the reptile brain, way down there, is at a point where it interferes with the newer, more evolved outer layer.

Etc.

If we are going to survive as a species, it appears we have to ingest some combination of sustaining food source, and it seems as if the argument cannot be over whether Rita has the crushed yeast and garden pea casserole at the vegetarian cafe versus Chuck, who takes the kids for a birthday meal at McDonald's.

Either one of those is an arbitrary cut-off. Rita, Chuck, and the kids all have to have something to eat. And everything they have to choose from has an interdependent genetic profile and an independent genetic future.

I love my peas and carrots and mushrooms and olives but in eating them I'm still consuming something that was alive, that interacted with multiple other species and elements. With sunlight, with wind, with soil, and so on.

The geography of hunting has been diminished by human expansion into wild domain.

As a pagan, I'm guessing you would feel the tension there. Pan's meadow is a beautiful meadow. It is quiet and still before a storm and it is abuzz with the bee-loud glade sounds that Yeats describes.

"There's a pasture in the countryside I used to call my own, " James Taylor sings. Odds are dangerously high that that pastureside is a housing development or a strip mall or some other slew of neon crap.

Well. I'm rambling like a fool. But I loved your post and say thank you for it.

[stlsaxman]

166. Deer: "It is a good day to die!"

or "Ho ka he" in the original Cherokee, i believe...

[carlyhippy]

192. that will be some expensive dinners at that house

price of ammo, a licence, hundreds of dollars to process the deer if they don't do it themselves, and thousands in medical bills, that's some expensive deer meat on their plates.

I live in the middle of deer heaven...I don't condone the hunting of these beautiful animals, but am fully aware that overpopulation will ultimately result in disease, starvation and the eventual demise of even more deer.

The hunters who track deer for days or weeks, stalking and killing that one deer that will be bigger than their neighbors, hunting just for bragging rights, with the trophy rack on their living room wall. I can't deal with hunters who shoot from their vehicles towards houses either. We lived in the country, and the deer would bed down at night in our tree shelter belts, they saw us outside and didn't run, because they knew they were safe; and from time to time some idiot would come by and try and take a shot.

[Avalon Sparks]

194. Wish that would happen to Nugent....

eom

[Suji to Seoul]

195. Okay, Randy Goodman, as a life long hunter, you suck!

This is pathetic. Hopefully, you'll learn to wait before inspecting. . .at least a minute.

And two shots??? Amateur!

You're a bad shot, a terrible hunter and stupid to boot. Don't go hunting again.

[ZombieHorde]

196. That is pretty funny.

Jerky made from venison is delicious, I wonder what jerky made from hunters would taste like?