In Rush Hour Labor, Ticket Issued

[joeunderdog]

Jennifer Davis was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on Nov. 18, her contractions just 3 minutes apart. Her husband, John, was trying to appear calm for his wife's sake, driving in the breakdown lane of Route 2. They pulled up behind a state trooper to ask whether they could continue using the lane to reach the next exit, near Alewife Station.

Not only did the trooper say no, he gave them a $100 citation for driving in the breakdown lane, made them wait for their citation while he finished writing someone else's ticket, and even seemed to ask for proof of pregnancy, Jennifer Davis said.

"He said, 'What's under your jacket?' I said, 'My belly,' " Davis said. "He waited and gestured with his head like, 'OK, let's see it.' He waited for me to unzip my jacket. I mean, it was so clear that I was pregnant."

snip

State Police policy discourages the use of police escorts for private vehicles, except in life-or-death situations, Procopio said. But for a misguided moment, when the trooper left their car to finish up with the other motorist, John Davis hoped that the officer would come back to help them through traffic.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/12/04/in_rush_hour_labor_ticket_delivered/?page=2

[Kalyke]

1. OK... isn't a baby a life or death situation??

What a fucking jerk (and I usually stand up for cops because I know how hard their jobs are).

As pittance, this trooper needs to be forced to sit in a room with a bunch of women who have pregnancy-induced hormonal imbalances (not all women do, I didn't, but I know some do) while explaining to these women why he was such a jerkoff.

[musette_sf]

89. "isn't a baby a life or death situation?"

i wonder if the cop was a forced-birther. to them, having a baby is NOT a life or death situation (to the woman, that is). to them, there are NO pregnancies that are life-threatening (to the woman, that is). to forced birthers, giving birth is ALWAYS just like in the "Every Sperm Is Sacred" sketch:

(Inside the house. A pregnant woman is at the sink. With a cry a new-born baby, complete with umbilical cord, drops from between her legs onto the floor.)

Mother: Get that would you, Deirdre...

Girl: All right, Mum.

(The girl takes the baby. Mum carries on.)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

90. I'll bet he has kids too.

Probably never changes a diaper nor lifts a finger to help his wife.

[dbackjon]

2. That guy should be fired

[screembloodymurder]

3. Assholes like that give cops a bad name.

:mad:

[trueblue2007]

6. wHAT IS THAT COPS NAME? They should publish it.

that cop is a moron and should be fired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Officer Michael Galliucio.. worst person in the world... I love Keith

:-)

[joeunderdog]

44. Two things that are hard to debate and nearly impossible to justify here...

2 tickets. He took the time to write 2 tickets--one for the operator of another vehicle--putting this woman and her child at increased medical risk.

You can debate the ambulance issue and the police escort policy all you want. There was no reason to cite this driver under these circumstances. Every cop knows--SAFETY first.

To protect and to serve? :wtf:

[emilyg]

58. Absolutely.

Power hungry moran.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Mass Staties are by far the biggest dicks in the police world.

Fucking highway meter maids.

[DS1]

5. No way. CT staties are rabid snakes

[TwilightGardener]

7. They turned down an ambulance offer from the trooper--twice. Not an emergency, then.

Sorry folks, but had they gotten into or caused an accident from driving in a non-driving lane, the story could have been much worse. Not sure a ticket was necessary, but the cop did his job--ensured both the mom's safety (ambulance offer) and the public's safety.

[pitohui]

8. they couldn't afford an ambulance

you've never had to call an ambulance, can you?

[TwilightGardener]

9. Puh-leeze. You've got to be kidding. If you really think you're going to

pop out a baby on a roadside, you aren't worrying about ambulance transport costs. edit to add: she was gainfully employed as a social worker at a hospital--pretty sure she had insurance.

[Fumesucker]

13. Of course you're worried about ambulance costs..

Not to mention that calling an ambulance would have taken much longer than simply allowing the couple to drive to the hospital.

The baby could have "popped out" while they were waiting for the ambulance.

[amdezurik]

14. since you have no clue on their situation

and seem to enjoy speaking from your nether regions perhaps consider that ambulance would still need to come to that spot through traffic with no place to go to get out of the way and then back to the hospital, so it would take at least twice the time to arrive.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Bizarre personal attack means you've lost the argument. Goodbye.

[amdezurik]

69. so you know that couple personally?

at least that now seems to be your claim, and if you do not in fact know them, then yes i correctly described your speaking habits in this thread. aAnd since you seem bound and determined to blame anyone excpet the public servant involved, buh-bye to you loser.

[malaise]

16. In many parts of the planet the ambulance would be free

and that includes more than a few developing countries. There are people who cannot afford the cost of an ambulance.
add.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. At least when I was doing it in Mexico with the Red Cross it was free

we even transported some patients to US Hospitals from our ER since they could not afford the cost of the American Ambulance.

A BLS transport that was International in nature ran 5K minimum fifteen years ago.

ALS... sky's the limit

Our cost, BLS or ALS... a thank you, perhaps a donation of a hundred dollars if we were lucky... and that was too much for some of these families. I actually refused the donation a couple times (For poverty stricken families on either side of the fence) Hell in one case we even fed some of these folks.

We took donations, if people could afford it

And we had a lady, from Chula Vista, who could not afford her meds in the states for Diabetes, that went to OUR ER like clockwork, (every month or so) Her name was Marge, she worked on the line assembling planes during WW II, and a nasty divorce left her in deep poverty. Yes, we did the Social Services assessment, we even tried to get social services involved.

That is what I call a tragedy... this country should not have senior citizens going over the border to buy meds, let alone get them to get them for free from charity since they could not afford them... or they could and no heat, or electricity or food.

And I can bet that these days these stories are even more prevalent.

[Missy Vixen]

31. My husband had an ambulance ride last year

WITH insurance coverage, and less than ten miles: $700.

We're still paying it off.

Could it be possible that the couple knows they couldn't afford it, and just needed to get to the hospital?

Julie

[TwilightGardener]

37. Again, if you're experiencing a true emergency, especially one involving

your precious baby, you aren't thinking too much about the money. You're thinking about getting medical help. If my son got hit by a car or got slammed in the head with a baseball bat at a Little League game and was injured and unconscious, I'd call an ambulance. If I thought I was having a heart attack, I wouldn't drive myself 40 miles to the hospital (and endangering everyone else on the road, might I add), because I can't give myself morphine and defibrillation--I'd call an ambulance. And if I thought my contractions were too close together and I wasn't going to make it to the hospital without extreme and heroic driving, I'd allow the police to call an ambulance. Because EMT's and paramedics aren't cabbies, they are trained medical professionals.

[MadHound]

51. And sometimes it is simply more practical, and less time consuming to drive yourself

Rather than wait on an ambulance. I've had that happen to me. My wife had an eye injury a few years back. We live out in the country, and if we had called an ambulance if would have taken at least twenty minutes to get there, twenty minutes to get to the local podunk hospital, which couldn't have treated her. Then she would have been bundled up and shipped off to the nearest hospital that could have handled her emergency, another thirty minute trip. In eye injuries, like many others, time is critical. I bundled her into the car, and sped, yes sped at high speed for twenty minutes to the nearest hospital. I never dropped below ninety on a four lane highway. We got there and got her treated by the correct specialist, saved her eye. If we had done as your suggest, we might have lost her eye.

Sometimes waiting on an ambulance is the worst thing you can do.

[TwilightGardener]

54. OK, I understand that now I will be flooded with people who insist that

they got to the hospital faster, and that they could have lost an eye, or bled out, or whatever. I never, ever said that it's ALWAYS FASTER to take an ambulance in EVERY SITUATION--but in THIS CASE, they were stuck in traffic anyway, and there's no guarantee that driving on the shoulder and then taking a random exit would have meant they got to the hospital any faster, because what if there had been even MORE traffic on an alternate route, or if they got lost, or got into a wreck? Far better, IMO, to have your baby in an ambulance then in the back seat of a car. And again, paramedics and EMT's are not just drivers, they provide care and treatment.

[Missy Vixen]

57. Hmm. Let's see here.

Ambulance ride: Several hundred dollars at least. (They didn't mention the distance between the exit and the hospital. They also didn't mention whether or not the couple had health insurance.) They also had to WAIT for the ambulance to get through rush hour traffic, didn't they?
Getting one's car out of impound: Another several hundred dollars.
Getting a ticket after having to prove one is in labor: Priceless.

Shall we debate the fact that the negative public relations as a result of this $100 ticket is going to follow the Massachusetts State Police for quite some time? It's STUPID. Here's a thought: Good thing that baby took another five hours to make her appearance, because if they were clogging up the breakdown lane THEN, imagine how much fun it would have been for the woman to actually deliver on the side of the freeway. Does that cop also require someone who's having another type of medical emergency to "prove it" as well?

Whether you believe it or not, there are millions right now who are worried about every expenditure because they either have no job or have lost their medical insurance. Those who can throw caution to the winds and run up bills right now are few and far between.

It would have been a much better situation for all to let them take the next exit and GO TO THE HOSPITAL. Considering the fact that story is the #1 most e-mailed story at boston.com right now, I'm thinking the cop in question is probably in some trouble.

Julie

[TwilightGardener]

61. Cop says, by all means, use the breakdown lane.

5 minutes later, wife gushing amniotic fluid, possibly blood, baby crowning, severe contractions, panicked and distracted dad driving 50, 60, 70, 80 miles an hour on some side street somewhere, either putting the rest of the driving public or his own family's safety at risk, and they may STILL end up in traffic somewhere else, or in a wreck, and that baby might come out in the backseat. This is possibly what's going through a reasonable cop's head. This guy sounded like a prick for giving them a ticket, but I can't blame him for wanting to call an ambulance rather than let this guy continue driving with an "imminent" birth that turned out not to be quite so imminent. Was this a true medical emergency, and was the family's and the public's safety at risk? That's a bad situation to be in, for an officer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. not all insurance plans cover the ambulance

and you are talking MINIMUM 2000 for that call

You sure they could afford it?

I'm not

Why we NEED national health single payer service, that would put an end to those worries

[TwilightGardener]

55. Again, I wouldn't risk having a baby in a car if I REALLY THOUGHT it was

on its way out within minutes. I just wouldn't--$2000 means little to me in that event (although it's certainly a lot for me otherwise). That's MY priority set--I'll take a bill in the mail that I can ill afford over the chance of being in a medically bad situation and also subjecting my newborn to a medically bad situation. Your mileage may vary. And yes, it would be nice if we didn't have to make such a hard choice, but that's reality in America right now.

[Fumesucker]

11. Not everyone has insurance that will cover an ambulance..

That could easily have cost the couple involved thousands of dollars.

[TwilightGardener]

12. Are you people shitting me? Are you all willing to put a baby at risk

because you don't want to pay a couple thousand dollars? SERIOUSLY??? Jesus, have a fucking home birth with a neighbor attending, then. Holy crap. Babies are expensive.

[Fumesucker]

15. Not everyone has a couple of thousand to spare..

And it was the trooper who put the baby at risk, there's no telling how long it would take for an ambulance to get to the scene.

[TwilightGardener]

18. No--it's not SAFE to allow people to drive in the breakdown lane--that was

a judgment call by individual officers to make.

[Fumesucker]

23. Nothing in life is SAFE, there are risks to everything..

And the ambulance would have been driving in the breakdown lane too.

[TwilightGardener]

26. EMT's and paramedics are trained to drive under such traffic conditions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. And talking as a trained paramedic.... the cop made the wrong call

even as a trained medic driving a rig in those conditions is SLOW going... and it would have taken the rig quite a bit to get to the scene... more than the ideal seven minutes.

I know you think you are correct here, but it was truly a judgement call and MOST babies (and moms) arrive at Labor and Delivery in PRIVATE VEHICLES not ambulances, even with three minute contractions.

But some points

1.- NOT all plans cover ambulance rides

2.- That particular ride would have run at least 2000 bucks

3.- Babies ARE expensive... but if you are a mom, you probably know this and are being quite sarcastic

4.- Not everybody can AFFORD 2000 bucks, least in this economy

5.- Why we need national health care... single payer, where these worries about cost will go up like smoke

6.- You have NO CLUE just how dangerous it is to drive, even for trained emergency workers, in those conditions. We do it, but at least the rational ones hate it. By the by, at least in california... this is not a lights and sirens drive situation... not on the freeway. And where I did it, we absolutely hated it.

7.- And as it has been pointed out to you... there are exceptions to all rules... and at times (a few) the ambulance is not the right call... they are very few... count them with one finger.

But will give you a personal experience. Dad had to go to the ER wiht a broken hip. We called 9.11... leave the fact that the medics made some serious basic mistakes, which at least they did not bill for... that ambulance ride... was 1700 dollars. Mom and dad could afford it... the whole bill in fact... but the ambulance alone... which was BLS, no oxygen (one of my peeves) no backboard (another of my PET PEEVES) no C-Collar, (another one of the peeves) ran 1700 dollars. If they had used the equipment that by protocol they should have used, it would have sent that bill to about 2500

[TwilightGardener]

59. OK--all I was doing was defending the cop's judgment call. Everyone here

is calling the guy a complete bastard, and I think he made a judgment call with both the woman's/baby's safety and the public safety in mind, even though he was a bit of a dick. Again, if this baby was REALLY REALLY CLOSE to being born, and I was stuck and didn't have police escort or guaranteed open traffic to make it to the hospital, I'd want an ambulance, even though it will cost. That's MY judgment. Everyone else's may vary. As it turns out, this was NOT a medical emergency, she had plenty of time to get to the hospital, and thus turned down the ambulance offer--I am fully aware that most babies are NOT born in back seats and ambulances. I have made that labor trip to the hospital twice myself. BTW, I got certification as an EMT, and I'm a registered nurse--I understand the limits and realities of emergency medicine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. My husband was a cop, I told him the skinny

and he said the same thing... the cop made a judgment call mistake

I would not call for him to be fired, but I will not be TOO SHOCKED if the judge throws the ticket and reminds the cop that there is thing thing called INTENT...

And you got certified as an EMT... you ever gone to the field?

[TwilightGardener]

62. Ride alongs. I thought the cop was a dick, but I can certainly understand

being hesitant to allow them to continue driving in a breakdown lane and then off an exit somewhere with a baby coming out unassisted--had this couple gotten into a wreck or caused a wreck, the cop would have borne some responsibility. Except that the baby wasn't coming out. She was just having contractions, like all women who have babies vaginally. In which case, they weren't in an emergency and shouldn't have been driving in the breakdown lane to begin with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Ride alongs are usually not good to get judgement on what goes in the field

the TICKET is the bad judgment call

The ASKING the woman to prove she's pregnant is the bad judgement call

THE ISSUING of a second ticket is the bad judgment call

And two people now, who WORKED in the emergency field just told you that he made a bad call.. based on INTENT of law

We've been there, done that.

As to not driving on the breakdown lane... sure get them to drive in regular lanes.

As to the no-escort policy... I am sure the PR flack is now leading to that one being under review as well.

I am also sure the cop had all kinds of thoughts going through his mind, but when THEY REFUSED the ambulance is the equivalent of an AMA... for law enforcement...

And reality is your worst case scenario usually occurs in those conditions, stop and go traffic, and usually the person greeting the baby is the hubby, at times a bystander

And from having "caught" plently of babies (and those calls always scared me) I know 99% of the time I am there to cheer them on... it is the other 1%

Now you are engaging in very black and white thinking... so what the cop

[TwilightGardener]

68. I said that the ticket was unnecessary, and that the guy sounded like a prick.

I think we all agree on that, so I'm not sure why you're harping on it. But if you're having a true medical emergency on the highway and you actually have a police officer offering to get an ambulance out there to you, rather than letting you continue on ALONE in a possibly unsafe manner that may not guarantee a timely or safe arrival, then you take him up on that--and if you're NOT having a medical emergency, then you are expected to follow traffic laws. Maybe this cop didn't think she was in bad enough shape to justify allowing them to drive on the shoulder or speed (which they would almost certainly have done once past the cop's view). That's my take on it--and in the end, his judgment was correct in terms of her not being in a state of delivery--even though he wasn't exactly a nice guy. I am not willing to say that this cop was wrong on all counts. I'm not engaged in black and white thinking at all--I've acknowledged that it's a TOUGH SITUATION and a judgment call, which is why I am defending the cop on some level. And I didn't say I worked as an EMT, but I have been exposed to the field, enough to say that I'd rather deliver in an ambulance with a trained/licensed EMT or paramedic assisting me expensively, on the way to the hospital, than with my poor and clueless husband assisting me on the side of the road for free.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Is he a trained medic? Let alone a trained nurse or doctor?

Cops are not trained to make medical calls.

They are trained in CPR and basic first aid at the academy... a few later train as EMTs and serve as first responders

So he did not know... nor was qualified to make that call.

He made some serious judgement calls here, and it will cost the department

The least they will get is a slap on the wrist, aka the judge going off on the cop for a bad judgement call

And that is what this is... a huge PR flack due to a BAD JUDGEMENT CALL.

And as many of us have pointed out to you... some folks cannot AFFORD that expense... it means the difference between eating and heat with a new born, or not.

And that is a policy discussion. But it may very well be their reality.

We also pointed out to you that there are exceptions to every rule and quite frankly most women loaded in the back of an ambulance and transported to a hospital do not deliver either... so they chose to take their chances. In an ideal world I would have preferred they took an ambulance, but I know I don't live in an ideal world. I also know that black and white thinking leads to flaps like this one.

My experience, over 500 calls involving pregnancies, I only delivered ten kids... the rest delivered in the hospital, some, what am I saying, most, hours after we got them there, with three minute contractions... Now one of them that I actually greeted was a premie.. ah the scary one. Where having that trained Paramedic with all proper gear and equipment made the difference.

Now go ask crews... ask them how many times they actually deliver a baby in the field. I am willing to bet that their numbers are similar.

[TwilightGardener]

76. What is this weird "we told you" shit? I have my opinion, and it's every bit

as valid as yours or anyone else's on this forum. Argue the merits, and we can agree to disagree without getting personal. You all seem to want to make up hypotheticals to justify the couple's position: Maybe they're poor and couldn't afford an ambulance? Maybe the hospital was only 3/4 mile away! Maybe the cop was not qualified to deliver! Maybe the ambulance would have taken 10 minutes instead of five, etc. It's almost certain that NEITHER you nor I know the full details. However, all we have is one side of the story, and ALL I'M SAYING is that I'm trying to understand the cop's reasoning and giving him some benefit of the doubt in terms of thinking of her safety and the public's safety--at least until his side of the story is known and the department renders its judgment, unlike the knee-jerk condemnation here. I tend to sympathize with those who serve and protect as police and military personnel (two groups subjected to a lot of knee-jerk hatred or suspicion on DU), at least until the facts are known, because I sure as hell would not want to take a bullet for my fellow citizens--I think their willingness to do so means they're entitled to some benefit of the doubt in the line of duty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Well when people don't agree with you it becomes a personal attack

that said...my opinion is based on the reality of actually going to those calls...

And your definition that it was not an emergency since it took so long for the kid to deliver applies to 90% of my patients

Also my opinion is based on being married to a former cop, who comes from a police family

He offered EMS...they refused... ever heard of good samaritan law?

I am sure you have.

He made a very serious mistake... the kind either made by rookies...or by black and white thinking officers...

They are trained to look not only at the letter of the law...which he (and you) looked at...but also intent

Now as to why they no longer escort to hospitals?　Ｉ’ｍ　ｂｅｔｔｉｎｇ　ｏｎ　ａ　ｌａｗｓｕｉｔ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｐａｓｔ　ａｇｉｎｓｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｄｅｐａｒｔｍｅｎｔ．

[TwilightGardener]

21. If it was a true emergency, then they would have wanted an ambulance.

Instead, they just wanted what they wanted, at risk to their own and baby's safety and the public safety, by driving on the shoulder. It's that simple. An ambulance can get around traffic and handle an impending birth better than they could have.

[pitohui]

30. you clearly have no experience of life

in a "true" emergency people don't have the cash to throw away on an ambulance, i've seen it many times, including with heart attacks, fuck, one of my relatives drove himself to the hospital during a heart attack (he survived)

the greed of this society, where you have no idea what the ambulance might cost, but you know only that you don't have $500 to $2K to pay on top of what the other future hospital bills will be -- means that people have to take hard choices

if you have a car, you're already on the road and part of the way there, no, you don't sit on your thumbs waiting for an ambulance you can't afford, you just do what you gotta do

i'm glad you AND everyone you know, wienerdoggie, is so wealthy that they have never had to make this cruel choice, but most of us are not so fortunate, even those of us who have lots of $$$/or insurance know people well who have nothing and who won't use ambulances, won't buy their medicines, etc. and so on -- hell i myself went 15 yrs w.out health insurance or care, at times i thought i would just die (once of a pneumonia that killed two other people i knew) but what could i do? it's a "true" emergency but if i don't have the $$$ what's the point of living anyway if i am to be hounded forever for what i don't have?

and besides it isn't always so obvious -- in this case it is non obvious to me -- why an ambulance would be safer than just getting the car she's already in to the damn hospital already

the officer in question is a dick and should be removed from his job in my humble opinion, it is unlikely that a cop would not know of people personally in tough financial situations esp. during the baby-making years -- so he has no heart -- he is a sociopath -- and i don't believe that sociopaths belong in law enforcement

[TwilightGardener]

34. I have "no experience in life"? LOL! Again, I'm refraining from personal attacks, but

apparently no one else can.

[Lance_Boyle]

73. ambulance would get there faster

if some jackass wasn't parked in the breakdown lane arguing over a well-deserved ticket - ambulances are ALLOWED to drive in those non-lanes. Guys with pregnant wives aren't. He should not be demanding special treatment.

[grace0418]

28. Are you shitting everyone else? All they wanted to do was get to the hospital, not

necessarily an emergency in terms of "this baby will absolutely die if delivered in the car" but certainly it's much safer and better for everyone involved for them to get to a hospital. Like everyone else said, maybe they didn't have extra money to be laying out for an ambulance, or maybe they figured that would take twice as long. Either way, they were just looking for a little assistance and the cop just had to be an asshole.

[TwilightGardener]

32. Again, there's a reason why you aren't allowed to drive on the shoulder--

it's not safe. You can want whatever you want, but if you're stuck in traffic and you think your baby is crowning, you'd be begging for an ambulance. At the very least, it would plow you through traffic with its lights on, and if the baby DID come out, you'd be taken care of. Sorry, I think the cop was a little dickish for the ticket, but the couple sounds like airheads.

[grace0418]

64. I prefer not to judge them so harshly, as I have never been in hard labor in a traffic jam.

Apparently you've been in the same situation and did exactly the right thing.

[TwilightGardener]

71. I just said I thought they sounded airheadish, and that the cop sounded like

a dick. Your take on them might be different.

[grace0418]

67. And anyway, is it safer for them to be blocking traffic while waiting for an ambulance?

And couldn't the ambulance cause some additional traffic snarl-ups trying to meet them in the middle of a highway? Would that scenario be any safer than the cop allowing them to get to the next exit on the shoulder?

[amdezurik]

66. don't bother

wiener is too busy thinking up excuses for the public servant not doing his job then about how real people live.

[lostnfound]

83. No one I know takes an ambulance to the hospital for birth.

Just because someone drove me there doesn't mean I'd want to be stuck in a traffic jam and living through the stress of contractions.
Have you ever given birth?

[hughee99]

80. The article doesn't really say

but I used to drive Route 2 on a fairly regular basis, and if I remember right, the exits are very close together. As far as driving in a non-driving lane, they couldn't have been looking to go very far or very fast. Yes, it's very dangerous to drive in a breakdown lane if you're going 50mph for 10 miles, and a agree with that aspect of the safety issue you bring up. It's not quite as dangerous when you're going 20mph for a few hundred yards. Given the distance between the exits, I actually think it's quite likely that while they were pulled over, they could see the exit they wanted to get off not too far ahead of them.

The Hospital (Mt. Auburn) is less than 1 1/2 miles off the exit, so I'd be a little surprised if, given the traffic they were in, an ambulance could get to them, load them up and get them to the hospital quicker then they would have gotten their on their own, and probably would have taken considerably longer. While the baby was delivered 5 hours later, but I doubt either the officer or the parents had any way to know that it would take that long. Regardless of the price of the ambulance, they may have been more concerned with getting to the hospital ASAP, and judged (probably correctly) that this would happen a lot quicker without it.

Given the distances involved, I suspect it probably took longer for the officer to write up the ticket then it took them to get to the hospital from where they were.

Again, the article doesn't really say exactly where they were, so most of this is just an educated guess on my part, but if the Alewife exit was the next exit (as it says in the article) I suspect I'm not too far off.

[amdezurik]

10. did that jack-booted thug think

he was patroling the Green Zone?

[Merlot]

19. What bothers me most about this isn't the ticket

It's him kaing her unzip her jacket. That's just perverse.

I had a friend once who got pulled over, young guy and his really pretty girlfriend. The cop made the girlfriend get out of the car so he could check her out. Boyfriend had to sit in the car and take it.

[grace0418]

70. I know, I thought that was gross too. If I were that woman I would've been tempted to say

"would you like to check to see how dilated my cervix is as well?" Probably wouldn't have been a good idea to mouth off to such an asshole, but that would've have pissed me off to no end.

[lame54]

20. The proof was almost the new- born baby

[TwilightGardener]

24. Not really--she was born FIVE HOURS after arrival at the hospital.

[lame54]

25. The cop had no way of knowing that

[TwilightGardener]

27. He offered them an ambulance. They didn't want it. They just wanted to

keep driving on the shoulder.

[lame54]

29. Which would have been much faster

[TwilightGardener]

33. Well, we could all get where we're going much faster if we break traffic laws.

Fuck public safety.

[lame54]

35. And seeing how everyone of us is pregnant at the same time...

that would be chaos

[TwilightGardener]

39. LOL! That would be chaos.

[Are_grits_groceries]

36. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

I was very sick and thought I was having a heart attack. I didn't know anyone to call nor did I have the cash at

hand to call a cab. I didn't have health insurance, and I wasn't sure how I was even going to pay the emergency room bill.

It took all I had to get to the hospital, park, and get into the emergency room. Yes, I parked because I had no idea what

would happen to my car if I just left it. It took me forever to pay off that bill, and I couldn't have managed any more for

an ambulance.I won't insult you and all I'll say is you better be ready because the Karma train is headed your way.

[TwilightGardener]

38. I don't know what to say to folks like you--I don't worry about bills when I

am facing possible death. EMT's can get you to the hospital WITH early medical care along the way, and they can save your life if your heart stops completely. Plus, you realize that you could have blacked out or died while driving and killed...me, or someone else, on the road, right? Because you didn't want to pay for an ambulance.

[Are_grits_groceries]

41. When one is having to think about money 24/7

and is down to counting coins, the mind concentrates at times on one thing. It may not be what you consider the right thing, but it has become the only
thing. At that point, I was really in denial that it was a heart attack. I'm not the only person who does that. A lot of people do. So my mind was thinking about
no food, no heat or some such choice.
The karma train is coming. Count on it.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Another weird personal attack--"kharma train"? What, praytell, will I be punished for?

For wishing that people would act responsibly, take care of themselves and others on the road, and seek timely medical help instead of trying to avoid paying money? edit.

[Are_grits_groceries]

43. You are clueless. nt

[TwilightGardener]

46. I'm not the one that risked heart muscle and possible death, and a

traffic accident that may have claimed someone else's life, just to save money.

[Are_grits_groceries]

52. May you never be as sick, broke, alone, depressed, or as tired as I was that day, nt

[Fumesucker]

45. You might end up in a similar situation one day..

None of us ever knows how things are going to work out in our lives.

Actually I've done something quite similar myself, no insurance, wife having extreme problems with a pregnancy, sent home from one hospital (due to no insurance) so I drove her to another.

Turns out she was but minutes from death with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy, if I'd waited for an ambulance she may well have died. The ambulance we called to get her to the first hospital took over half an hour to get to us.

In your world my wife dying would have been a better outcome than me breaking some traffic laws to get her to a hospital.

[TwilightGardener]

47. OK, the issue here, in case anyone forgot, is "stuck in traffic with

a baby on the way"--if the dad in question can't get his wife to the hospital without extreme driving and violating traffic laws, then an ambulance is appropriate. There's no guarantee on what's faster for ALL individual medical emergencies, but in general, ambulances are the best bet for medical emergency transport. That's all I'm going to say. Glad your wife made it OK. Not sure why you had to add that last sentence.

[Fumesucker]

48. I added that last sentence because of your position..

That we should never try to get someone to the hospital on our own and always wait for the ambulance.

Not to mention that the great majority of people violate traffic laws every time they get in the car.

[TwilightGardener]

50. When did I ever say that we should NEVER try to get to the hospital

on our our own? In some rural/isolated areas of America, you have no reasonable choice but to go there on your own, if you live far away on a ranch or something. Or, you simply broke an arm, or cut yourself and need a few stitches, or have a bad case of the runs, and can get there safely on your own. I'm just speaking about this case, and in general regarding life-threatening emergencies.

[noiretextatique]

74. you do understand your lack of thought is a luxury, don't you?

some people don't have the luxury of "not thinking about bills," even in life-threatening situations.

[TwilightGardener]

77. Give me a break. If someone's number one priority in a medical emergency

is getting transport to a facility on the cheap, then that's their and their family's business--UNLESS they're in no condition to drive, or they expect full exemption from traffic safety rules--then it's everyone's business. You don't know what my financial situation is--I've only let you know where my priorities lie.

[noiretextatique]

78. you do understand that your priorities are not everyone's don't you?

"on the cheap" as opposed to $2,000.00 for an ambulance? as i mentioned, not everyone would make paying $2,000.00 a priority if they felt they could get there on their own, safely or not. it's a damn shame that some people feel they have to choose between health and debt.

[TwilightGardener]

79. Didn't I make myself clear in my response to you?

You don't have to be made of money to judge that sometimes $700, or even $2000, is an acceptable price to pay for medical intervention and a faster ride (in most cases) to the hospital--say, if your kid was having a severe asthma attack and couldn't breathe...if I were dealing with that situation, I wouldn't hesistate to call an ambulance, no matter how much that bill might be two weeks from now. But, to each his own (unless you're wrecking into me while trying to drive to the ER with seizures or shortness of breath).

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Ah the many times I had the pleasure of taking care of

patients with asthma who's parents could not afford the ER.... or the taxi to go home afterwards.

You know what? I think you do live in a comfortable middle class setting where this reality has never entered your train of thought. Having seen abject poverty, as well as smelled it... I count my blessings that I have health insurance, a roof, money for food, electric bill...and yes the money for deductibles for my meds

I also count my blessings that my parents have enough to deal with those emergencies of aging

But I have seen a mom have to choose between a rescue inhaler and food more than once

I have also gone out of my way to make sure they had that rescue inhaler when we ended our contact.

Count yourself lucky.

And to a point count your blessings... I know I do.

After all little Javier still haunts my dreams... to give you a concrete example. He was a bright and happy seven year old, with rudy skin, the most beautiful green eyes I've ever seen, and a happy go-lucky smile. On our last contact we gave him meds under the direction of medcontrol and a teddy bear...the first and last toy he ever had. He died two months later during a cold spell. And he died due to that crushing poverty that you cannot even fathom. The next crew got to them too late to do a thing beyond CPR. He was buried in his white suit and his teddy. We HELPED the family pay for the funeral, since even that was out of reach...seven hundred dollars were out of reach...

So what if this happened outside the US and the kid didn't speak English? That is the reality in the projects...South East SD, South Side of LA...much of Appalachia... Chicago's West End...the areas of Cleveland near the lake...and so on...

This is the reality we in the US like to ignore...by the by.

Have a good one Wiener...and I do hope you never, ever...have to make those decisions...food or medicine...heat or medicine...I really hope you can continue to live that comfortable middle class lifestyle that affords us the luxury of ignoring that poverty in our midst

Oh and I do expect you to call this a personal attack as well.

Par for the course...

[pointblank]

84. If I cann add to this gem of a discussion

:wink:

I am a medic x 7yrs and most cops are dicks and have no business making any judgement calls when it comes to medical situations, although they try.

From what I have heard the cop should have escorted them to the hospital and made the decision as to whether to ticket them or question the validity of their claim when they arrived. Too many times I have seen cops make stupid decisions...

Maybe because they have on average six months of training and then are given a gun and a WAY too much power. IMO cops should have at MINIMUM 1 year of training, be subjected to much more rigorous psychological testing and be paid much more than they are to attract better personnell to the job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Several points here, as not only a former medic but as the wife of a former cop

the training (at least in my town) is seven and a half months... and if I include Field Training, a year and some change, so I guess I depends where.

They are instructed to defer to Medical Personnel for those decisions... and not to question if a patient (potentially) has insert malady here, In fact, due to some disasters in the antediluvian times with diabetes, these days they are trained to ask medics to do a simple sugar test to dismiss things like hypoglycemia easily confused with being a happy drunk. I remember those fights to get MY cops to do that in Tijuana... sadly, as usual, took a couple deaths in jail. And yes, back then they were dicks about it. I will say it.

There is more.. I agree with you, this cop is a dick and had no place beyond doing the ever so popular do you need or want an ambulance? After they said no... worst case scenario, a warning was in order, not a ticket.. and that is the worst case scenario, and even that one is debatable. He did not use intent of law, but letter of law... something at least locally, they are instructed to do as well. And the famous example is the CHP officer who gave a ticket for not wearing a proper seatbelt to a kid wearing a five point restraint system since there was no lap belt... the judge had fun reminding said Chiippie about that thing called intent.

Oh and even more since you work in the streets. The level of dickiness is directly proportional to how far to the East Coast or deep south you are (n General, we know Los Angeles PD is the sore point in California, they are self insured and are not certified by the state of california, perhaps that has something to do with it... actually it does. They are feared, with good reason. And I wish Massachusetts had a good civilian review board... this is a classic for them. So let me assume you work in the east coast? Or close to it? Not to say that some of my local cops are not dicks... yes, we have them too.

:-)

As to escort to hospital, as much as I agree with you and the CHP would have done it, it is apparently against their policy (which I can bet is under review) and I can almost bet that this is because of a lawsuit. IN that sense, due to the litigious nature of the US... Police Departments, and to a lesser extent fire and EMS, are screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.

By the way... keep your head low and remember, safety first. You want to go home at the end of your shift.

[grace0418]

65. And neither did the mom. For all she knew the baby could've arrived any minute.

But of course, she was supposed to keep her head and obey a traffic law above all else, because heaven knows that situation wouldn't cause you to panic a little bit. :eyes:

[Javaman]

22. nothing new...

when I was born, my mom loves to tell this story, on the way to the hospital, my mom and her friend were pulled over for speeding (my dad was at work), the cop didn't believe them, until my mom, who is never bashful, got out and opened her coat. My mom, who was very near labor (she gave birth to me almost in the lobby of the hospital), yells to the cop, "officer, does this look like I'm faking it?"

The cop blushed and escorted them through traffic to the hospital. No ticket. This was in 1963.

[Greyhound]

49. These stories are a good illustration of what has gone terribly wrong with our police departments.

I hope Daryl Gates has a heart attack and needs to get to the hospital during a "terrorism exercise".

[riqster]

40. One simple word:

PIG.

(Flame away if you like, but this authoritarian asshole deserves the tag.)

[noiretextatique]

75. no flame here

that cop behaved disgracefully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Officer Michael Galliucio.... worst person

by the way the story gets more complex

Two officers told them earlier to drive on the breakdown lane...

GOOD

I think Officer Michael Gallucio, due to the PR flack, will get disciplined now.

[Seldona]

91. While I am glad this turned out okay for this mother and her child,

I would hope like hell that cop is removed from the field of law enforcment forever. To call this guy an imbecile is an insult to imbeciles everywhere.