Are you prepared for the economic trouble ahead?

[wartrace]

I am convinced that nobody can change the course we are on. While President Obama will mitigate the severity of the looming economic chaos there is no avoiding it.

How long could you survive without an income? Have you given any thought to what you would do if you were forced into the unemployment line? Could you make it in your current home or would you become homeless? Would you be able to feed your family on government assistance? What if the government is overwhelmed with assistance requests? Would you be able to feed your family without help?

Personally I am deeply concerned that we are headed to a replay of the great depression. Are you prepared or are you going to "play it by ear"?

[oldtime dfl_er]

1. I am self employed

and feel that I am completely unprepared. What can I do? I've got some soup in the cupboard and my rent is pretty cheap (at the moment). But I wouldn't qualify for unemployment, so I guess I'd be homeless.

[earth mom]

2. We should be okay, but I really wish we could buy a travel trailer, just in case we ever need

a place to live that is paid for.

:yoiks:

[wartrace]

13. Right now is a GREAT time to buy one.

That's a GREAT idea too. Right now prices for used travel trailers are at a low (like everything else). That is a viable option for keeping a roof over your head.

[pitohui]

34. instead of a travel trailer

i've tried it all over the years and a travel trailer is so not the answer because the price of gas (while low at the moment) could soar at a moment's notice

for a fun exaggerated example, there's a movie from the 80s, i think it's called lost in america, but the point is life in an RV is just not...mobile

a small vehicle and a tent, inflatable air mattress from k-mart, etc. is way cheaper

you have to keep moving anyway, most parks only allow you to stay 2 weeks at a time, for the very reason that they were supposed to be for tourists, nature lovers, etc. not homeless bums -- a tent you can break down quickly and a car that sips rather than a big truck that gulps the gas just works better

even when i'm old, i'm not going to a trailer or RV, i can't stand the lack of manueverability -- i'll go w. the toyota plus tent plus inflatable air mattress -- i've tested this a lot this year, it really works great for a very low price

[phantom power]

3. What, I wonder, does one do to "prepare?"

The percentage of people who have any subsistence-farming skills is a lot smaller now than it was in 1935.

Nobody was especially "prepared" back then either. They stumbled into it, and muddled through it. Not everybody got through.

[wartrace]

14. Education?

It might be a good time to learn about gardening & keeping chickens. Maybe learn how to can? Giving up due to ignorance shouldn't be an option.

[mentalsolstice]

21. Good luck with that if it's against zoning regs!

My husband is an urban planner, so, he hears about farm animals all the time.

[pitohui]

32. canning costs more than not canning

"education" is a curious word if you have not actually tried these things yourself -- the cost of canning supplies went thru the roof some years ago, it simply isn't worth it

it's like sewing, the cost of new fabric/thread (let alone a sewing machine) is far above the cost of simply getting clothes from walmart, freecycle, thrift shops etc.

as another points out, chickens are aga. zoning but (shhhh!) some of us have slipped them in by only purchasing pullets for a small added cost so that we don't have the telltale song of the rooster

the old time, old hat solutions of gardening/sewing/livestock don't always work in modern times for a variety of reasons -- if you've experimented and pushed the envelope along the way, you know this, if it's all book learning and grandma's tales...ho-kay, good luck to you, sir

[MadHound]

40. Not true, at least not where I live

Of course I live in a rural area where canning and preserving food is still an integral part of life. I can lots of veggies from my own garden, in addition to drying and freezing food. It saves us a ton of money each year.

I don't keep chickens, but rather swap with neighbors who do keep 'em, get fresh eggs anytime I want for the berries that I grow. Meat is also cheap out here, both beef and pork, and all organic too.

I slid out of the urban rat race five years ago, and never made a better decision in my life. It's much easier to be poor out in the country than in the city. That was true during the Great Depression, and it's still true now.

[uppityperson]

47. Unless you have the supplies already, can reuse jars.

All I need to do is get new lids and I can can a bunch. Some cities allow you to have 3 chickens, no roosters (like Seattle), and there are ways to put edible plants in with flowers, if you have access to soil.

[Donnachaidh]

4. the trouble is HERE - it's just not reported on the MSM

Don't kid yourself -- government agencies are ALREADY overwhelmed. Charity groups are ALREADY overwhelmed. Homeless numbers are growing around the country.

But YOU don't know about it because of the lack of real coverage by ANY media in this country.

There may very well BE a moment not too far in the future when there won't BE unemployment available. The States will point fingers at the Federal Gov. The Fed Gov. will point fingers at the States.

The only people who will have taxpayer help will be the upper 1% that is lining up for their Treasury Swag right now.

It's going to be a REAL wake-up call for those who are still thinking they've got *secure* jobs. No one is SAFE, at the rate this train is rolling.

[wartrace]

16. You are right, we are already overwhelmed.

That's why I asked the question. I don't believe people are taking this situation seriously enough. There is no such thing as a "secure" job. The economy as we knew it is gone. We will be weened off easy credit whether we like it or not.

[tbyg52]

5. No, I haven't thought about it any more than I could help.

We don't have credit card debt, we have a little money, and I'm trying to cut back and save more. I just hope it won't be inflated out of all value.

Don't know what else I can do to prepare - suggestions welcome!

As far as *if* the worst happens, I guess I will wing it.

[wartrace]

24. Suggestions.

Food, shelter & water. Everything else is a luxurey. If you can figure out how to have all three you will be sitting pretty.

[Speck Tater]

38. Shelter includes warmth. Don't forget some way to stay warm. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

53. Don't forget air conditioning in the South and Southwest.

People can get quite sick from too much heat -- heat exhaustion and heat stroke -- without air conditioning, because it's not just the heat, it's also the humidity. The body cannot sweat to cool itself when the humidity is high. That's the Gulf Coast and several other states.

[tbyg52]

62. Tell me. What I haven't been able to figure out

Is how I stood it when I was a kid. I guess it was a little bit cooler, but still....! We did not have AC, and I did not notice the difference.

A lot of it is air movement, I think. Inside, no movement, and hot is a killer.

[tbyg52]

63. Not a big problem where I am

I'll either cook or blow down....!

[tbyg52]

61. We've got shelter, as long as we can pay the mortgage

And I could scrape up enough to pay it off if I had to.

Food, I guess we could stockpile.

Water's from a well. Wonder how much solar power it would take to run it?

Course, I'm not real sure about how I'd like subsistence. I'm kinda fond of civilization. Although we've got books and musical instruments.....

[wartrace]

68. A hand pump is a viable option for a well.

I have both a hand pump & solar well pump installed. If you are going to store food the best time to start is before you need it. I would DEFINITLY pay off the house, the grass feels different to your bare feet when you own it.

[panader0]

6. I may have to start selling my body

But at 58, I don't think I could get too much for it.

[Harry Monroe]

66. When I die, I'm selling my body to science fiction

[Warpy]

7. There is no real way to prepare well enough

for one of these things to be able to count on being able to ride it out with everything intact.

Five years ago, I started to tell people to get out of debt. About three years ago, I started to talk about the impending housing implosion. Last year, I talked about the market crash and how institutional investors from banks and brokerages to pension funds to states would start to go under.

That part was all pretty predictable. Less certain is how it will play out now, whether Obama will avoid DLC advice and do things for the good of the country instead of personal and party cash flow. If that happens, we will have a short but intense period of sheer misery. If the DLC prevails, we will have a long period of sheer misery while he figures out they're full of shit.

In any case, it's impossible to say what will survive to the next economy and what will not.

At this point, survival skills like cooking, mending, gardening, and even hobo skills will start to become important for those of us on the bottom of the heap. It will be much better if we can barter skills than if we have to sell what we own off for less than it's worth just to eat.

[tbyg52]

8. >>while he figures out they're full of shit.

If he hasn't already, then :yoiks:

[Warpy]

56. I'm sure he thinks they're experts right now

or he wouldn't have hired them.

He's a smart man. I have faith in his ability to figure it out.

[tbyg52]

65. Yeah, you know, I think he can. And then figure out how to fight them.

And we need to help! Just hope it happens soon enough.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

9. Not so much of a problem when you are going to use

your "Christmas Money" to buy a $2,000,000.00 house in Dallas.

[wartrace]

18. *.* is not worried at all, he was the puppet they used to set it up.

Think about it. Is he bright enough to have had pulled this off on his own? The puppet master is making a killing right now.

[lonestarnot]

10. Sqwat me in some real lovely place for free. LOL Happening everywhere in neighborhoods near you.

Fuck it.

[bemildred]

11. We are approaching a singularity, nobody knows how to prepare for it.

It's true, we could stop making it worse, but it's really too late. My advice, if you are young, is to start acquiring reliable friends who understand the problem and are committed to working together to survive and reproduce, but I'm not young,

[RufusEarl]

12. My grandparents, went through the depression.

i remember my grandmother telling me she didn't notice much change. They were already growing their on food stuffs, they had a small farm in Oklahoma and relied on what they could produce.

Most people were already living pretty hard by most standards, and most of america was rural back then. It's going to be really different this time around, most people have no idea where their food comes from anymore, and growing food huh never happen in this society.

One thing i have done is buy seeds, i have Tuna under the bed but other then then that i'm preparing for Mad Max....

Peace!

[redstate_democrat]

15. Yes. Robbery is always an option.

Kidding. Kind of. But seriously, I don't know. I'm a survivor so I think I will be ok.

[pokerfan]

17. "don't be shy about pulling something you like out of the trash"

In a remarkable bit of corporate insensitivity, Northwest Airlines brass gave workers it is laying off a booklet offering "101 Ways To Save Money," including "don't be shy about pulling something you like out of the trash" and "ask your doctor for samples of prescriptions." The booklet was included in a layoff packet recently given to dozens of pink-slipped workers in North Dakota, Montana, and Texas.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0821061nwa1.html

[redstate_democrat]

19. Wow. That's pretty messed up.

I won't be flying Northwest ever again. The "little people" are nothing more than pieces on a game board to these people.

[pitohui]

36. well i fly northwest a lot (they're gay friendly etc.) altho i hate the delta merger

i happen to agree w. this piece of advice as i've been doing it for years, i wouldn't give this advice to people hurting from lost wages and they made a big error there, but in their stupid fumbling midwestern way they were actually trying to suggest something practical-- they just did it stupidly and tactlessly

i would not say the "little people" are just pieces on a game board to northwest, at the other end of the equation i hear the "snobs" talk about how the red tail is for the redneck/working class frequent flyer...hell, how do you win?

[Earth_First]

20. The government is busy preparing 20,000 troops for NORTHCOM active duty...

They will be ready.

[wartrace]

22. That doesn't seem too promising......

I am not comfortable with that at all. I wonder what they are thinking???? :sarcasm:

Somebody is expecting something to happen here in the United States. Get ready as best you can.

[maynard]

52. preparation priorities

The Bushies plan for civil unrest while ignoring the economy. Typical priorities. What will they outsource next?

[TripleKatPad]

23. Admittedly inadequate for Survivor

I'm told that my firm usually holds up well during economic downturns. But I'm in Michigan and I wonder how anyone will survive here if the auto companies go down.

I got tuned into the then-coming, now-here economic disaster a couple years ago and made the only plan I could think of: make a stringent budget, save like mad, pay off all my debts and build up an emergency fund. I paid off my mortgage one year ago today (just a teensy house with a small mortgage that I bought 15 years ago).

In 2008, with no debt, I have socked away more than half of my net income by sticking to my still-stingy budget. I know, I know. The dollar will tank and my little nest-egg will buy me a bag of Costco cat food if I'm lucky. But...I did it anyway.

If it does turn all Mad Max, I won't survive. I'm a cat-lover, not a fighter.

(edited to fix typo)

[wartrace]

26. You already have your shelter covered being debt free on the house.

You just have to work on sustenance. A big garden & some chickens?

BTW- I love that picture of the kitty. I have two tabby cats (twins named "Chairman Meow & Flea Taxi"), I would survive because they would make me. Somebody has to feed them, right?

Flea Taxi in the grass.

[Doremus]

25. What really bites is I KNEW this was coming.

But WTH can you do to prepare for it? I mean, really, if you lack the wherewithall to pay off all your debt or buy acreage, there's only so much you can do.

If we have to subsist on what we can grow in our backyard we're dead meat, not only because we lack the skills and general fitness required, but how much can one grow in a 40x40 space? Chickens would probably be a better alternative and that will probably be what we do if it comes down to it, even though city ordinances prohibit it.

In my many hours of mulling this over during the past few years, I always assumed we could turn the shop into a second-hand store for necessary type things like gardening tools, shovels, canning supplies, etc. Maybe I should have been stockpiling this type of inventory but WTH do you put it for a few years, and how do you explain to your significant other that you're not really insane for paying warehousing costs for used tools?

We have no CC debt but do have a mortgage and school loans for the kids. I guess if things got so bad that we had to default we could file bankruptcy. They do let you keep your house don't they?

One thing I have been doing is hoarding gold and silver jewelry, coins, flatware, etc. as they come in. I have a pretty good supply of those. I need to start hoarding canned goods though. I read a blog recently written by someone in Argentina who said if they could go back to 2001 they'd buy food, lots and lots of food. Oh, and guns. We took care of that several months ago. One of these days we should probably buy the bullets. :blush:

Lately I've been feeling like the last time I strapped into a roller coaster -- let me off!! -- but of course after you've already pulled away from the station you're stuck, just hang on and try not to upchuck. So that's basically how I'm preparing. No unseemly puking. :)

[wartrace]

28. Stay away from canned food.

Read the "nutritional data" on the cans. You will get too much sodium eating canned. I have some of this food- freeze dried is the way to go.
http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?bhcd2=1228439313

[Doremus]

43. Thanks for the information!

I didn't realize that freeze dried food is so much more healthy. It lasts a lot longer too.

You've given me something to research. Mucho thanks!!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

48. It depends on if it's canned with extra salt. Some aren't, be sure to check.

[TripleKatPad]

30. Don't know if it will help a bit

But I, too, have found myself stashing away quarters, dimes, jewelry. I just donated to a food drive all the canned goods I hoarded over the last two years. I'm going to start building up again.

[Doremus]

45. Great!

I started stockpiling precious metals a couple of years ago. Like I said, I knew this was coming. Just wish I could have done more to get ready, sigh.

Best of luck to you, and us all!

[alittlelark]

27. We have a place in NM on a river

With a greenhouse, and 3 acres of usable land. It's paid for.

It is a vacation home for now.....

[wartrace]

29. There ya go.

You are ready. Food, water & shelter.

[alittlelark]

33. The kids and I are building a chicken coop this holiday break.

We'll assemble the panels inside, then - depending on the weather, we'll put them together outside.

NM is wonderful during the holiday season, but often very cold!

[Irish Girl]

31. i honestly believe it will be greater than the Great Depression

I told my friends two years ago that Wall Street would fall and they laughed. I'm hoping I'm wrong about this one but right now I'm taking it a day at a time and learning practical skills, like growing my own food and canning.

[wartrace]

37. Probably will. I am just trying to get people to prepare.

I want EVERYONE to know I am just mentioning this in order to get people to prepare, it is happening right now. There is no time for "some day". Get ready.

[Speck Tater]

35. The most important preparation will be psychological preparation.

It's the people who desperately try to cling to their former life style who will be hurting the most. You need to be psychologically prepared to just let go of things you can't afford any more, and to learn the real difference between a necessity and a luxury. And by "just let go", I don't mean only physically let go, but to drop any vestige of clinging to or longing for things that are no longer attainable. You really have to be completely OK with knowing what your realistic limits are.

People who keep believing that cable TV is a necessity will be hurting. People who tell themselves that orthodontia for the kids is a necessity will be hurting. People that tell themselves that having two cars in the family is a necessity will be hurting. People who tell themselves that eating out is a necessity will be hurting. People who tell themselves that heating the swimming pool is a necessity will be hurting. And their pain won't only be emotional. It will get serious when they keep blowing money on things they imagine to be necessary, and have none left for things that really are necessary.

If you can make the necessary mental preparations, and learn to cheerfully embrace voluntary simplicity, you will be fine. I was lucky. I went through a period of extreme poverty about 15 years ago. I learned from that experience how adjust both my budget, and my outlook on life in general so that I could be happy and fulfilled with little or no money. (There was a time when I fed myself on $10.00 a week. And, yes, I did eat a healthy, well balance diet during that period. These days I blow closer to $30.00 a week on food, with some of that being unnecessary luxuries. I do, however, grow, freeze and can quite a large quantity of my own food.)

After that experience, when my income returned to normal, I went right on living a life of voluntary simplicity, and now, 15 years later, I am retired, with virtually no income (little enough that I don't have to pay any income tax), yet I eat well, have warm, comfortable shelter with DSL and cable TV and NetFlix (three luxuries I KNOW could forgo at a moment's notice if it became necessary), and am perfectly content. Should the bottom completely drop out of the economy, I doubt I would notice. If things really got bad, I have a well-equipped outdoor kitchen, lots of fire wood right on my property, and a hand pump on my well, so even electricity could be treated as a dispensable luxury at this point.

But it all began, 15 years ago with the realization that I did not have to buy into the consumerism mind-set, and that leading the simple life is, in many ways, far superior to "buying" one's way of life at far too high a price.

[pitohui]

39. it has nothing to do with the "consumerism" mind set

i've never had cable teevee and altho most people i know have at least had cable teevee at some point in their lives...no one thinks cable teevee is a survival issue and people are perfectly used to it getting turned on and off and blah de blah

what is killing people is quite simply that no matter how you scrimp and save, no matter how you decide that to "settle" and that it's OK to have shit in the way of material things, at the end of the day, when the fact that you don't have $20K means that you don't have brain surgery ( a real example of someone i know) or when the fact that you don't have a few hundred dollars means you don't buy your medicine ( a real example not just of someone i know but of multiple someones i know including myself) -- well then ---

at some point people may "settle" and say, ok, it's fine that i don't have what everybody else has just so the cheneys can have a few million more, but do you seriously think there can be peace on earth when people realize that when they "settle" it means they don't get medicine and their wife dies or their child is permanently damaged or they're just a little crazy...

you can save up for everything else, you can work hard, you can raise some chickens in your backyard for food, but there is no substitute for modern medical technology -- and when they deny you that because of some little pieces of paper called money and it's your wife or your child or your mom who is damaged or killed forever because of that...well i don't know...i realize most people WILL just shrug and take it and be all zen but is that even honorable? how do you sleep at night when it's ok for your mom to die sooner so that the rich man you've never met will get an extra quarter of a percent return on investment?

it ain't about cable teevee and to suggest that is is just plain dishonest

[Speck Tater]

41. I agree with you.

for many people, the problems you mention are very real and very significant. I was thinking more of the many people I know who liver further up the economic food chain who DO consider their luxuries to be necessities, and who WILL suffer a lot of pain when they are finally forced to let go of them.

All I'm saying is that with SOME things, if you're going to lose them anyway, isn't it better to let them go with a positive attitude than to rage against the inevitable and work yourself into a emotional frenzy over it?

[pitohui]

42. i have no idea having not had those things

my guess is that for many people raging against loss is more therapeutic than just shrugging their shoulders but what do i know?

i haven't noticed that passive people who just sigh and let it all go do so well, in fact, we have a name for those people, the clinically depressed

it's ok to be angry when you've had your life taken from you, hell, it's probably even healthy?

[Speck Tater]

50. Granted, some people give up. They are the depressed.

Some people take adopt different attitude, and those are among the world's happiest people. I count myself in that group.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3047291.stm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/matthieu-ricard-meet-mr-happy-436652.html
http://wisdomthroughmindfulness.blogspot.com/2007/08/do-like-to-be-happiest-man-on-earth.html

[FedUpWithIt All]

51. Having things taken from you can be depressing. Letting them go can be freeing.

The more i work to become unburdened by all the "stuff" the easier i breathe, the less i worry and the happier i am. I know i could let go of nearly everything if it came to that. I know what is important to me. It really is largely mental and making a choice, before choice is taken away, makes a big difference.

[MrMickeysMom]

67. Hierarchy of needs and attitude will get you by...

Also, a commitment to eating right and keeping your body in good condition only reinforces the good attitude.

Think of all the fear that has been drummed up by the same people in White House, encouraging people at the same time to live beyond their means, and I guess you can imagine lots of people having to face a very harsh reality.

[alittlelark]

57. The 'cable TV' issue is just a distraction... focus on it - IGNORE reality.

Cable TV is the first to go in a dire situation.....ie - food, shelter, warmth.

Those that have to eradicate cable or the internet are a few months from destruction.

We can ignore them.........they are consuming over their limit...........



They are 30-60% of us.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. Husband is self-employed, we live from week to week, and things are already getting really tight

[PJPhreak]

46. Yes

We (My GF and I)both have Nice Mt.Bikes and trailers,a pair of Honda Trail 110's,nice practical camping gear,years of Outdoor Skills. (Both Wilderness and Urban)
Can we survive the upcoming economic implosion? Oh Yeah,17 Years following the Dead,and lotsa Urban Guerrilla Camping and being homeless in places like Boulder,Berkeley,San Fran,Tucson,Austin,New York,Boston,D.C.Teaches one a lot about survival.

Yes We Can.

[uppityperson]

49. Be prepared to take in boarders or roommates.

You can give people a place to be inside, and they can help a little with money or time.

That is, if you have a place. If you don't, see what skills you can offer someone to stay with them. Perhaps you can pet sit, or work in the garden, or bring home seconds from the dumpster behind the bakery.

Dumpsters behind bakeries can be a good place to look in the evenings. If the bread is too hard, we give it to the chickens to make into eggs and fertilizer.

[cmf]

54. I've thought about this a lot

I've thought about this for years. I always thought it would be because of peak oil, though.

We actually have a few years of living expenses in liquid accounts - about 1/3 of it is a result of a real estate sale that we were too scared to throw into the market at the time (Oct 07). Best financial decision we've made. As long as the financial system doesn't fail or inflation doesn't run rampant, we should be ok for a few years.

If we lost all of that and our jobs, it'd be harder. We are both pretty handy and crafty, we could pick up odd jobs if they are out there. We have a spare room and bathroom where we could take in a boarder - our mortgage is pretty reasonable. If things got really dire and we lost the house, we have a tent and a bunch of camping gear. If we got pregnant or one of us had an illness or injury, then we'd be screwed.

[bobbolink]

55. Some of us are already homeless. No, we probably won't survive.

So, how are we supposed to "prepare"????

Or is that only for middleclass DUers?

Does it matter?

[alittlelark]

58. You could 'prepare' by linking up w/ those who have Prepared

botany, composting, permaculture, preserving, ..... We are all trying to prepare.


Get INFORMED on ANY of these - you will do well.

[bobbolink]

60. Riiight... there are soooo many compassionate people to "pair up" with.

How many homeless people are YOU "pairing up" with?

[AngryOldDem]

59. I have a job, but it's quickly becoming untenable.

I'm taking baby steps toward becoming self-employed, and I know this is definitely NOT the time nor the economic climate to be doing so. But it's either that or go to an early grave. I'll throw the dice and take a chance on going it alone. I'm going to gut it out through the winter, live as frugally as I can, and reassess things come spring.

[MrMickeysMom]

64. My husband and I were talking about this tonight-

None of us (well, make that many of us) can't be prepared. Did you happen to hear Robert Reich's discussion with Olberman tonight? I think he was being conservative in predicting "a mini depression" based on the massive unemployment figures. I don't think it's sunken in our collective heads.

I will tell you that I have a slightly better chance of not being UNemployed, as I'm in health care. Having said that, I'm one of the 12.5% who have been UNDERemployed in that field. We're at the age where we should be looking at near retirement, but cannot. We will have to get by. We have skill sets where we'll have something.

[roamer65]

69. Delete.

[roamer65]

70. It will be either Great Recession I or Great Depression II.

We are definitely going to knock the 1981-1982 recession off the top spot as the worst since WW2. We're 12 months into this one and we have not hit bottom yet by any measure.

If we are still posting negative quarterly GDP numbers by Q3 2009, hang onto your hats folks. That will mean we are going to give the Great Depression a "run for its money".

I am about as prepared as I can be at this point. Thank my lucky stars I didn't not buy a stick built house in 2005. The housing market just seemed to "bubbly" for me back then...